Brewing Today (11/23)-Water Adjustments for 100% Distilled Oatmeal Stout Help

The recipe is based on Yoopers Oatmeal Stout and its 100% Distilled Water. Mash 156 deg F.

2.25 gallon batch/Brew-in-a-Bag/3.5 gallon Mash

2.850 lb Marris Otter 61.16
0.450 lb Flaked Oats 9.66
0.230 lb Flaked Barley 4.94
0.230 lb Crystal 80 4.94
0.340 lb Victory 7.30
0.28 lb Pale Chocolate 6.01
0.06 lb Chocolate 1.29
0.11 lb Black Prinz 2.36
0.11 lb Roasted Barley 2.36

1.05 oz Williamette @ 60 min 3.9AA%

WLP004

I'm using BrunWaters "Black Full" profile and the target is such:

Calcium - 50 ppm
Magnesium - 5 ppm
Sodium - 33 ppm
Sulfate - 35 ppm
Chloride - 45 ppm
Bicarbonate - 140 ppm

If I add the following:

Gypsum - 0.81 grams
Calcium Cl - 0.88 grams
Epson Salt - 0.28 grams
Baking Soda - 1.40 grams

my finished profile comes to:

Calcium - 38 ppm
Magnesium - 2.1 ppm
Sodium - 28.9 ppm
Sulfate - 42.1 ppm
Chloride - 42.2 ppm
Bicarbonate - 76.8 ppm
SO4/CL Ratio = 1.0

Estimated Mash pH = 5.56

To me this seems like a good profile. However I start reading around about water profiles and I start second guessing myself. After many sub-par beers I'm trying to nail this down.

Any recommendations? Too little one, too much other?

Should be good.

I know beers with lots of dark grains can call for adding alkali, but that sure seems like a lot of baking soda. I'd double check the inputs and maybe add a fraction of that, measure pH and add more if needed.

JonM said:

I know beers with lots of dark grains can call for adding alkali, but that sure seems like a lot of baking soda. I'd double check the inputs and maybe add a fraction of that, measure pH and add more if needed.

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Thats one thing that had me worried. I guess I rationalized it by looking at Palmers number:

0-50 ppm for pale, base-malt only beers
50-150 ppm for amber colored, toasted malt beers
150-250 ppm for dark, roasted malt beers

...and BrunWaters 0-150ppm range. With me using distilled water with no bicarbonate, I figured 76.8 was a good median number. My pH was on point, as were other additions.

Ive always heard darker beers require more bicarbonate, then I get to a quote on BrunWater stating "Bicarbonate does not have an ideal range. It is needed only to the extent required to produce a proper mash pH". Combine that quote with his target for "dark full" of 140, it gets confusing really quick for me.

It seems like I am chasing my tail/circular logic on a bunch of this water chemistry stuff.

What I mean is that baking soda might jack your pH way, way up. Using the same calculator and aiming for 5.5 pH, I added half a gram of calcium hydroxide to the last stout I did (5 gallon batch) and the pH was way, way too high as a result. If I ever have to use that again, I'll add it a little at a time.

JonM said:

What I mean is that baking soda might jack your pH way, way up. Using the same calculator and aiming for 5.5 pH, I added half a gram of calcium hydroxide to the last stout I did (5 gallon batch) and the pH was way, way too high as a result. If I ever have to use that again, I'll add it a little at a time.

Click to expand...

Redoing some numbers....

Gypsum - 0.7 grams
Calc Cl - 0.81 grams
Epson Salt - 0.28 grams
Canning Salt - 0.25
Pickling Lime - 0.53

This gives me....

Calcium - 56 ppm
Magnesium - 2
Sodium - 7
Sulfate - 38
Chloride - 50
Bicarbonate - 65 (a portion is neutralized in mash, so this # is up in the air)

Mash pH = 5.53
Alkalinity = 53
RA = 12
SO4/Cl Ratio = 0.8

I took out the Baking Soda and added Lime instead.

Id still add the lime a little bit at a time (diluted in water.) I used .5 grams of that stuff in a 5 gallon stout with a lot more dark grains and it was way, way too much.

I've never used lime as the alkali in my mash, so you're way over my head there.

I like this beer, with a full malt "roundness", so what I would probably do is use more calcium chloride and no gypsum to get the calcium up to 60 ppm or so (more is ok), and the chloride to 50-100. I'd leave out the epsom salts and canning salt, also. They're fine, but you get get a full rounded feeling with just the calcium chloride and not drive your mash pH too low.

A mash pH of 5.5 is perfect, and I've done it with baking soda but not the lime so I have no good advice on that.

Yooper said:

I've never used lime as the alkali in my mash, so you're way over my head there.

I like this beer, with a full malt "roundness", so what I would probably do is use more calcium chloride and no gypsum to get the calcium up to 60 ppm or so (more is ok), and the chloride to 50-100. I'd leave out the epsom salts and canning salt, also. They're fine, but you get get a full rounded feeling with just the calcium chloride and not drive your mash pH too low.

A mash pH of 5.5 is perfect, and I've done it with baking soda but not the lime so I have no good advice on that.

Click to expand...

Thanks Yooper!

I redid BrunWater to...

1.75 grams Calcium Chloride
1.05 grams Baking Soda

This gave me.....

Calcium - 47.7 ppm
Magnesium - 0.0 ppm
Sodium - 21.7 ppm
Sulfate - 0.0 ppm
Chloride - 84.4 ppm
Bicarb - 57.6 ppm
SO4/Cl ratio - 0.0

Mash pH = 5.53