Kolsch lagering times

I'm making a kolsch this morning, and I'm just curious as to how long it needs to set in the secondary. I've read that they need to lager for longer than the average ale.

FWIW:

4 pounds extra light DME
3 pounds Wheat DME
.5 pounds Caramel 10 (for 20 mins at about 160-180)

1 oz Northern Brewers @ 60
.25 oz Spaltz @ 20
.75 oz Spaltz @ EOB

Wyeast Kolsch Yeast

The recipe I'm using for the Kolsch I'm brewing tomorrow calls for 7days in primary and then 6weeks in secondary. Depending on what strain of yeast you are using it may not need to be lagered. I am using White Labs German Ale/Kolsch and it needs to ferment at 65 to 69 deg F.

What does your recipe look like? I'd like to compare it to mine.
12oz German Munich Malt steeped and sparged
4.25 lbs Xlite DME
1.5lbs Wheat DME
1.5oz Tettnanger bittering
1/2oz Spalt flavoring
1/4oz Spalt aroma
1/4oz Czech Saaz aroma

2nd Street Brewery said:

What does your recipe look like? I'd like to compare it to mine.

Click to expand...

Look up. The recipe is in my first post. The HBS guy helped me come up with it. He's a big Kolsch fan.

6 weeks, eh? Guess it will be a while before I create my next batch. How long are you going to bottle condition your Kolsch?

Doh and I wasn't even drinking yet.

2nd Street Brewery said:

Doh and I wasn't even drinking yet.

Click to expand...

I did some looking, and I can't find anything that says Kolsch needs to be in the 2nd for more than 3 weeks. Your recipe calls for 6? I imagine it's gotta be good, but how much of that resting time will really help?

I'm going to rack to 2nd in a week, let it sit in the 2nd for 3 weeks, check S.G. and if it's a reasonable number, bottle. BTW, what's your projected O.G.? I got about 1.060, but I'm not sure what my temp was. I poured the hot wort into a carb filled with cool water and ice cubes, then put more cool water on top of it. My hydro tube is bent (note: keep them out of the dishwasher) so I had to sanitize the hydro and throw it in the bucket for a reading.

I was patient this time with the yeast and let it sit out for about 21 hours after smacking the pack. It didn't do anything last night, but this morning when i got up the pack was all filled out. The yeast smelled really good and was nice and foamy.

2nd Street Brewery said:

The recipe I'm using for the Kolsch I'm brewing tomorrow calls for 7days in primary and then 6weeks in secondary. Depending on what strain of yeast you are using it may not need to be lagered. I am using White Labs German Ale/Kolsch and it needs to ferment at 65 to 69 deg F.

What does your recipe look like? I'd like to compare it to mine.
12oz German Munich Malt steeped and sparged
4.25 lbs Xlite DME
1.5lbs Wheat DME
1.5oz Tettnanger bittering
1/2oz Spalt flavoring
1/4oz Spalt aroma
1/4oz Czech Saaz aroma

Click to expand...

I see you have it in the Primary, so may I ask for your initial thoughts on the Kolsch? Are you still going to keep it in your 2nd for 6 weeks?

I just racked to 2nd today. I was pleased by how little trub was at the bottom of the bucket when I was done. I had purchased a finely meshed flat strainer from Target that rests nicely on the top of the bucket and caught most of the trub when I dumped it into my primary. I dumped a little at a time because the trub would fill the screen and I didn't want any running over into the bucket, then I would rinse off the screen and pour more through it. Our water here is really good, so I'm not too worried about water-borne contaminants getting on the screen.

Anyway, I left about 1/4 gallon in the primary after racking because the remnants were a slurry of spent yeast and the still-live yeast hanging out on the top. I'm assuming there's enough still-live yeast left in the beer the re-populate the surface. I then topped it up with some fresh water, which barely effected the S.G. It was 1.022 prior to adding water and about 1.020 afterwards. Pretty good, considering the O.G. was about 1.065.

It smelled great and looked great. I'd like to hear how yours is going.

I'll be racking mine to the secondary this afternoon when I get home from work. I'm not sure if I'll leave it in the secondary for the whole 6wks, I put that in because that was how the recipe read. I've got little activity in the airlock at this point. I'll take a gravity reading when I rack, not sure what my OG was.

4-6 weeks is about right for a Kolsch or Alt. primary fermentation should take 10-14 days (if fermented at the recomended temp, warmer temps will ferment faster), then do a nice diacetyl rest @ 68 degrees for 2-3 days, rack, then lower the temp by 2 degrees or so a day until you reach 30-32 degrees. let sit for 4-6 weeks @ 30-32 degrees. bottle or keg and enjoy! you don't have to follow that exactly, but that's usually the schedule (for lagers too!). results in a clean, crisp kolsch.

I don't know about Cheese but I'm using White labs WLP029 and on thier website it says that it doesn't ferment well below 62deg F. Would you still suggest lagering it after it is done in the primary?

well, remember that fermenting and lagering are two different phases of the brew process. lagering is the cold conditioning of a brew w/ lager yeast. let it ferment at the suggested temp range, then when it's finished, just rack it, and get it as cold as you possibly can for at least 4 weeks. what are you using to "lager" the kolsch in? if it's just in a fridge, just lower the temp setting as low as it will go. if you don't have the ability to get it down to 30-32, maybe let it sit a week or two longer. it'll be fine......
i did my first kolsch like that. it fermented at about 70 degrees, then i racked it to secondary and put it in my keg fridge for 4 weeks. not quite true to style, but a very tasty brew. just had more fruit and diacetyl flavors. since, i have up graded equipment and techniques to allow for doing a true lager through all the stages. i just have to work on my patience!!!

Well I racked to my secondary tonight. Gravity was just a hair over1.010 which is about what I am shooting for. I am going to try De Roux's instructions to lager the Kolsch, I'll put it in my fridgein a couple of days as I have another lager going that is a day or two behind the Kolsch and I want to time them together.

I don't have a fridge to lager it in so I'm going to have to hope it lagers while it bottle conditions. I'm going to let it sit in the 2nd for about 3-4 weeks, then I'll bottle it at room temp for a week, then in the fridge for a couple of weeks.

hey cheese, let it sit at room temp in the bottle for 2 weeks. you want a kolsch to have good carbonation and one week may not be enough.

put a couple in the fridge for a few weeks, and chill some others and compare.

something dark hu? a good american brown ale is nice. i have one on tap right now that's killer. how do you brew? all-grain, extract, or extract w/ grains? let me know and i'll get you a recipe if you like?

2nd Street, that extra day or two @ room temp will do the kolsch some good (diacetyl rest).

DeRoux's Broux said:

hey cheese, let it sit at room temp in the bottle for 2 weeks. you want a kolsch to have good carbonation and one week may not be enough.

put a couple in the fridge for a few weeks, and chill some others and compare.

something dark hu? a good american brown ale is nice. i have one on tap right now that's killer. how do you brew? all-grain, extract, or extract w/ grains? let me know and i'll get you a recipe if you like?

2nd Street, that extra day or two @ room temp will do the kolsch some good (diacetyl rest).

Click to expand...

As long as two weeks won't cause Volcanos, I'll give it a try. My last Wheat ended up with about 1/4 volcanos and the rest flat.

I brew extract and partial. I think my (preggo) wife would kill me if I dropped another $100 on equipment, especially since she keeps hearing me complain that my brews have yet to be great. I prefer partial, simply because it allows me to feel like I'm making a more natural brew.

Keep stirring the batch while adding priming sugar and then stir gently every couple of bottle fills to keep it well mixed.

as HB 99 said. make sure you evenly distribute the priming sugar throughout the beer. when i bottled, i would add it in 3rd's as my bottling bucket fileld with beer. stir gently, not to introduce any O2 to the mix every time your add some. make sure you don't store them at too high a temp. also, make sure your beer is done fermenting prior to bottling.

DeRoux's Broux said:

as HB 99 said. make sure you evenly distribute the priming sugar throughout the beer. when i bottled, i would add it in 3rd's as my bottling bucket fileld with beer. stir gently, not to introduce any O2 to the mix every time your add some. make sure you don't store them at too high a temp. also, make sure your beer is done fermenting prior to bottling.

Click to expand...

Well, some good news. I went down to the basement and found an AC vent underneath which I could position my bucket on a shelf. When wrapped with wet towels, the temperature should be around 68. It was 70 without the towels and direct AC exposure. I put it there this morning and I'm going to let it rest for a couple of days before moving it back over to a spot where it can be around 70.

My kolsch is a bit heavy. 7# + .5 steeped. I think this is heavier than 2nd Street's, so should I give it even more time? It had an O.G. of 1.065 and a S.G. 1.020 when I racked. There was evidence of a hearty krausen in the prime. I have two oz's of Hops in there, one for bittering (n. Brewers) and then some Spalt for aroma and flavor. Is there any need to Dr. it at this point? I haven't tasted it yet because I don't want to F around with contaminating a perfectly good beer. But what are your thoughts on a little dry hop? I'm not a huge fan of bitterness, but I want what's best for the beer.

Seeing that I do live in the Chicago area and I know that the outdoor temperature will drop in a few weeks, I should be able to move my bucket to the garage for a lagering cycle. By Halloween, we should be down near freezing which will be right around the time I'll be bottling.


I'm going to be extra patient with the kolsch and wait until perhaps Thanksgiving to serve it. That will be right around the time my beer consumption will be limited to no more than 2 bottles in a day, so I should be able to keep this long enough to enjoy it.

Bock Season is coming....

i wouldn't dry hop the kolsch. i'd just let it sit until it's ready to bottle. just be patient grasshopper! :~)
it'll be great.........

Well, more good news. I checked on it again this morning and the top fermentation is complete. It's been at a steady 70 degrees for two weeks, except for a dia. rest at 68 degrees for 2.5 days. Last time I checked it, there was a good layer of white and tan foam on the top which has now disappeared into the amber-brown liquid.

Now I can ignore it for the next 3-4 weeks until it's ready to be bottled. That is, if I can ignore it. Anyone have a time machine I can borrow, or some 3-4 week sleeping pills?

The good news is that I'm brewing again this weekend. still haven't made up my mind what, but something that doesn't require too much aging.

Cheesefood said:

Now I can ignore it for the next 3-4 weeks until it's ready to be bottled. That is, if I can ignore it. Anyone have a time machine I can borrow, or some 3-4 week sleeping pills?

Click to expand...

I'm in the same boat as you Cheese, I have 2 batches lagering and my third carboy is reserved for the Belgian I just finished. All of them are at least 4-5 weeks away from bottling
Also I don't have any secondarys free to brew for a while unless I just do a quicky primary only batch.

Yup.. I keep my 5 gallon primary/bottling bucket handy for whipping up "house ales" that need little time to age and can go straight to the bottles from the primary.

Going back to rudimentary equipment and recipes for those batches reminds me of what a long strange trip it's been with homebrewing.

-walker

DeRoux's Broux said:

let sit for 4-6 weeks @ 30-32 degrees. bottle or keg and enjoy! you don't have to follow that exactly, but that's usually the schedule (for lagers too!). results in a clean, crisp kolsch.

Click to expand...

Seeing as how it doesn't look like I'll have a cooler to put this in and the temps outside probably won't dramatically drop in the next 2-3 weeks, what should I do if I can't store it at a temp lower than 68?

Cheesefood said:

Seeing as how it doesn't look like I'll have a cooler to put this in and the temps outside probably won't dramatically drop in the next 2-3 weeks, what should I do if I can't store it at a temp lower than 68?

Click to expand...

OK, here's wht I'm up to: it's definitely cooled off here, so I've moved it from the basement to the garage. With highs in the lower 70's and lows in the 40's and 50's, the insulated garage should provide something steady and in the 60's.

I've smelled it a little, and it's wonderful. There's a floral, fruity wine like characteristic to it. Two weeks from Saturday is when it gets bottled. I'm hoping that aging it will do it some good. I must have knocked around a lot of trub when I hauled it up the staircase!

Cheese, 2nd Street,

1/2 drunk on a Monday night and I'm really wondering how this shook out. The thread just drops dead.... If you could guys, I'm really interested for reasons I'll explain later....

Whenever you get a chance. If you could. Please. :fro:

Ize

(look I threw the afro/rainbow smiley in as an extra bonus!)

Let's see if I can revive this thread. I have my first real Kolsch (except I'm not in Koln) fermenting now. I read the suggestions to ferment it on the lower side, so I used a water bath and fermented it at 60-62. It was a little slow to start, but then went along at a slow, but steady pace. The airlock stopped bubbling on day 5, so on on day 6, yesterday, I thought maybe it was too cold.

I checked a gravity, and I'm down to 1.010 already! Started at 1.050. So my question is, do I need to do a "D-rest" or does that really only refer to bottom fermenting yeasts? I'm in no hurry, and was planning on letting it sit another week in primary and then cold condition it. Should I let it warm up for a couple days, or is it done?

You do not need a diacetyl rest. That is mainly for lager yeast. Any thing that is fermenting around 62-65 is already warm enough.

neuron555 said:

Let's see if I can revive this thread. I have my first real Kolsch (except I'm not in Koln) fermenting now. I read the suggestions to ferment it on the lower side, so I used a water bath and fermented it at 60-62.

Click to expand...

neuron, how did this Kolsch turn out? I am trying to revive this post AGAIN in hopes of finding a good, true to style recipe. Would you please post your recipe here or PM it to me? Thanks!

macabra11 said:

neuron, how did this Kolsch turn out? I am trying to revive this post AGAIN in hopes of finding a good, true to style recipe. Would you please post your recipe here or PM it to me? Thanks!

Click to expand...

FWIW, These recipes are pretty much in style, but from what I've learned about Kolsch the OG should 1.044-1.049 to be in style. Without actually brewing in Koln, this is about as close as you will get to Kolsch.

I have an AG version that was posted on skotrat, which I converted to extract+steeping for three batches. I'm back to the AG version now that I've got my shtuff figured out.

Here's the original recipe.

OK, so I brewed and organic Kolsch and it is getting close to being ready to transfer to secondary. I tried to ferment at 60 degrees, but the best I have been able to get is in the 62-64 range (mostly 64). What sort of effects might I notice from this high of a fermentation temp? I plan on putting this in my lagering fridge for 5 weeks and stepping it down 5 degrees/day until I get to about 35.

Why the steps?
I have one on tap that was brewed Mid Maech. Fremented 2 weeks at 60, then crash cooled in the primary for 3 days at 34 to clear it. I racked it to a keg for 3 additional weeks at 34-40ish (my sanyo kegerator tends to fluctuate a bit) before I put it on the gas to carb. After a week of carb it was delicious. It's been flowing for about 2 weeks now.

GreenwoodRover said:

Why the steps?

Click to expand...

Here's a quote from Brewing Science and Practice, 15.2.3- Lager Methods regarding reducing the temp to lagering temps:

A sudden fall in temperature must be avoided or the shock may induce the yeast to excrete protease enzymes that could be detrimental to foam stability.

Click to expand...

This is the only reason I've seen explaining why not to cold crash for lagering and there are probably other factors at play for whether or not this would occur, but it's at least a possibility.

macabra11 said:

OK, so I brewed and organic Kolsch and it is getting close to being ready to transfer to secondary. I tried to ferment at 60 degrees, but the best I have been able to get is in the 62-64 range (mostly 64). What sort of effects might I notice from this high of a fermentation temp?

Click to expand...

You'll get a bit more of that wonderful floral/fruitiness that is the hallmark of Kolsch yeast. This isn't your normal light ale.

menschmaschine said:

Here's a quote from Brewing Science and Practice, 15.2.3- Lager Methods regarding reducing the temp to lagering temps:



This is the only reason I've seen explaining why not to cold crash for lagering and there are probably other factors at play for whether or not this would occur, but it's at least a possibility.

Click to expand...

This is what I have read too. That is why I am stepping the temp down gradually. It is only going to take 5 days to go from 60 to 35 degrees. Why risk it? I am conditioning this for brilliant clarity and competition.

Mad_Milo said:

You'll get a bit more of that wonderful floral/fruitiness that is the hallmark of Kolsch yeast. This isn't your normal light ale.

Click to expand...

With the caveat that WLP029 Kolsch Ale optimum fermentation temp is 65° - 69°F and White Labs says you don't need to go to 60° and below to get a clean beer from the WLP029 strain.

mmb said:

With the caveat that WLP029 Kolsch Ale optimum fermentation temp is 65° - 69°F and White Labs says you don't need to go to 60° and below to get a clean beer from the WLP029 strain.

Click to expand...

I used the Wyeast Kolsch strain, not White Labs.

I was wondering if any of you have pitched yeast with the bottle conditioning after lagering period?