Need Suggestions for a new 55 gallon system

I have just acquired 4 55 gallon stainless drums. (previous life was maple syrup). I am planning on building a system that will allow me to do double batches to fill a 100 gallon fermentor. I plan to make this system electric.

Here are the questions I have for those with systems of this size:

1. What size fittings, valves and tubing would you suggest?

2. How many 5500w Elements for the boil kettles/ or another type element?

I will be fabricating everything myself. I will be building a PWM circuit to control the kettles and I am not sure how I am going to sparge yet but I will be purchasing two pumps based on what size tubing I will be using.

I have a good Idea what I need, I just want to hear from some people who have brewed on tanks this size what they suggest and what they may have done differently.

Thanks.

I would venture a guess and say three if you want to take it to boil in a reasonable amount of time. I would say you would need 90 amps which includes a 20% safety factor. Just curious but what would you do with 100 gallons of beer?

We have a similar setup. 100 gallon mash tun, 2 55 gallon drums for boil kettles.

Pump and fittings are mostly 1.5" TriClamps, 1" ID. We go down to 1/2"ID in our HLT and HERMS coil, we also have 1/2" ID for our chiller, which is the chillus convulutus.


1.5" Triclamp with 1" flow all around would probably be more than enough for your system you are building, you could get away with smaller too.

Ours is gas fired, one kettle has 3 turkey fryer burners on, the other has some massive burner on it we found at a local shop.

My LHBS sells 3 piece airlocks for $1 each if you need one for this.

JUST KIDDING... I have no input but I'm excited to watch this come together. Good luck!!

Sawdustguy said:

Just curious but what would you do with 100 gallons of beer?

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20 times as much as you'd do with 5 gallons

I am building the exact same thing for the most part. I plan on using 2-5500watt elements for my HLT and 3-5500w ULWD elements for the boil kettle with the intention of turning off 1 element once boil is reached. 3 elements in the BK should take less than 30mins to get a boil going. I plan on using a 100A circuit. My question is where do I mount the 3 elements? Do I mount them vertically say 6" apart, or mount them on 3 sides, L+R+Back? I am leaning towards 6"-10" off the bottom at L+R+Back.

Sawdustguy said:

. Just curious but what would you do with 100 gallons of beer?

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We are opening a taproom. This is going to be our proof of concept system. Our business plan has us doing this on the side and keeping our jobs. Brewing on weekends and serving after work.

The plan is to then get the money we need for a larger system after we can prove people like the beer and their is a market for it. We want to keep the taproom, locally distribute, and attach a homebrew store to it as well. With the hopes of us being able to quit our jobs at that point.

We are getting close. My partner is a lawyer. We have some initial investors to get started but we want to take it slow.

Ranger9913 said:

I am building the exact same thing for the most part. I plan on using 2-5500watt elements for my HLT and 3-5500w ULWD elements for the boil kettle with the intention of turning off 1 element once boil is reached. 3 elements in the BK should take less than 30mins to get a boil going. I plan on using a 100A circuit. My question is where do I mount the 3 elements? Do I mount them vertically say 6" apart, or mount them on 3 sides, L+R+Back? I am leaning towards 6"-10" off the bottom at L+R+Back.

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I have been thinking about that too. I like the idea of vertical spacing but I do not want to have problems stiring the boil when I add hops. I would rather have everything out of the way if I can.

Again, that is our exact plan as well.

Ranger9913 said:

I am building the exact same thing for the most part. I plan on using 2-5500watt elements for my HLT and 3-5500w ULWD elements for the boil kettle with the intention of turning off 1 element once boil is reached. 3 elements in the BK should take less than 30mins to get a boil going. I plan on using a 100A circuit. My question is where do I mount the 3 elements? Do I mount them vertically say 6" apart, or mount them on 3 sides, L+R+Back? I am leaning towards 6"-10" off the bottom at L+R+Back.

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FWIW, I'm building an electric rig with keggles so much smaller scale. As for placement of elements etc, I kept the sides and back clear. I wanted to be able to set the vessels as close together as possible without interference and minimize the space required behind the rig.

So if the valve on the front is considered 6 o'clock, my site glass is like 4:00, element at 2:00, and temp probe at 10:00. I also kept the electric on the back side so as to minimize splashes and avoid tripping over cords.

Right assuming 6 o'clock is the valve my BK would have them at 12:00, 2:00, and 10:00. The HLT would be at 11:00 and 1:00

How long do you guess it would take to heat strike water to temp using only 2 5500w elements?

I want to make 2 boil kettles 2 mash tuns. stagger the brewing so one kettle can be used as hlt. My theory is be mashing the second batch while the first batch is boiling. I would like to fill 100 gallon fermenter in one session.

Brewmoor said:

How long do you guess it would take to heat strike water to temp using only 2 5500w elements?

I want to make 2 boil kettles 2 mash tuns. stagger the brewing so one kettle can be used as hlt. My theory is be mashing the second batch while the first batch is boiling. I would like to fill 100 gallon fermenter in one session.

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Have you seen the Electric Heat excel spreadsheet floating around?
I have a copy I can email you if you want to soot me a pm with your email.
I don't know how accurate it is, but it says; raising 50 gallons to 170 starting at 60 will take 77 minutes with 11000 watts.

Currently I can heat 12 gallons on my uninsulated HLT from 78 degrees to 180 in about 15-20mins with one 5500w so if using simple math 2 elements should heat 24g in 15-20 mins or say 36 gallons in 30-40mins

What are your plans for a fermentation chamber if you have a 100 gallon fermenter?

If I were you I would look at something like Budzu's DITCHES system. It would allow you to utilize three vessels, double batch sparge, and fill the 100g fermenter in a single shot with the option for high gravity beers at the regular 55g size.

I suggest at least 3/4" pipe size, but would suggest going to hard plumbed 1" tri-clover. Full flow, fully clean-in place, industrial for a brewpub.

My plan is to build a room big enough for 6 100 gallon plastic fermenters, 3 on each side of the room. I am thinking a 12'x15 room heavily insulated inside and out with a good 10,000 or 15,000 btu window air conditioner. Should have no problem maintaining 68-74 degrees. I am doing Ales only no lagers.

Ranger9913 said:

My plan is to build a room big enough for 6 100 gallon plastic fermenters, 3 on each side of the room. I am thinking a 12'x15 room heavily insulated inside and out with a good 10,000 or 15,000 btu window air conditioner. Should have no problem maintaining 68-74 degrees. I am doing Ales only no lagers.

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AirconditionerS

Man would it suck to lose 600 gallons of fermenting beer to a single tripped breaker!

I'm not any good at the thermodynamics of fermentation, but my 6 gallon carboy will get 4-5 degrees hotter than the basement during active fermentation. I would think 600 gallons of pissed off exothermic yeast bubbling away would function quite well as a room heater! Especially if that 600 gallons represents 1/2 the actual volume of the room... It's going to take a LOT of cooling power to sink that much heat from each batch to pull it to fermenting temps.

In our data centers, we always install N+1 air conditioners. In other words, if one will hold the data center at temp, we install 2. If 2 are needed to hold temp, we install 3.

When you're investing that much in raw materials, the price of redundancy becomes less than the first time something ****s up! Just sayin...

This is gonna be cool man... I can't wait to see your build!:rockin:

My plan calls for 200 gallons a week, which mean I would only have 2 fermenter in the vigorous fermentation stage. In my fridge right now I have it set to run at 67 for a 70 degree 10 gallon fermentation. My planned place of brewing is in a cinderblock basement which is vacant right now with no air running and the temps are probably still in the middle 70's. It's been 2 weeks of low to mid 90's here in Nashville. However, you might be right. A second AC is cheap insurance,

Where in Denver are you opening and do you have a name yet? I'm wondering cause I'm in the Denver area and am always looking for new beers to try

I've been meaning to write this for a while...

http://blogs.homebrewtalk.com/Boerd...Boil_Kettle_or_Hot_Liquor_Tun__Math_involved/

Basically, to go from 55º→164º F (cold to strike) will take 51,044,800 Joules divide that number by the number of seconds you want it to take to get the watts necessary.

E.g., 1 hr is 3600s which would tell you to install 14,179 watts which would tell you to install 2.6 5500W elements. I would round up to three. To do the same in half an hour, you would need just over five 5500W elements.

To me it sounds like four 5500W elements sounds good. take 5500•4=22,000W

22,000W÷220VAC = 100amps

You are going to need a crap load of power for this thing. Assuming you heat both the HLT and the BK, I would suggest running 250amp service to your brewery... wow.

nolson said:

Where in Denver are you opening and do you have a name yet? I'm wondering cause I'm in the Denver area and am always looking for new beers to try

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I live in the Mountains. We will be called Bonfire Brewing. We have incorporated under this name and we purchased bonfirebrewing.com. We will be somewhere in the town of Eagle.

Boerderij_Kabouter said:

I've been meaning to write this for a while...

http://blogs.homebrewtalk.com/Boerd...Boil_Kettle_or_Hot_Liquor_Tun__Math_involved/

Basically, to go from 55º→164º F (cold to strike) will take 51,044,800 Joules divide that number by the number of seconds you want it to take to get the watts necessary.

E.g., 1 hr is 3600s which would tell you to install 14,179 watts which would tell you to install 2.6 5500W elements. I would round up to three. To do the same in half an hour, you would need just over five 5500W elements.

To me it sounds like four 5500W elements sounds good. take 5500•4=22,000W

22,000W÷220VAC = 100amps

You are going to need a crap load of power for this thing. Assuming you heat both the HLT and the BK, I would suggest running 250amp service to your brewery... wow.

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The building we are looking at should have enough power. It is being used as a liquor store right now, but they are moving back to their old spot where they just built a new building. The building is a metal sided open floor space. From what I can tell they have large service. I need to look into it more. If I have to I will run gas and electric. I would prefer to go all electric.

I am not sure if I need it to be heated in 30 minutes. I might be ok with more depending on my process. There will be other things to do while it is heating.

Based on your math how long would it take to get to boiling from say 154. Our water boils at about 198-205. We are located at about 6500ft elevation.

Brewmoor said:

The building we are looking at should have enough power. It is being used as a liquor store right now, but they are moving back to their old spot where they just built a new building. The building is a metal sided open floor space. From what I can tell they have large service. I need to look into it more. If I have to I will run gas and electric. I would prefer to go all electric.

I am not sure if I need it to be heated in 30 minutes. I might be ok with more depending on my process. There will be other things to do while it is heating.

Based on your math how long would it take to get to boiling from say 154. Our water boils at about 198-205. We are located at about 6500ft elevation.

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What volume will you be starting with for your boil?
The spreadsheet I have says 154` to 198` in;
40 Gallons, 22000 watts in 12 minutes
40 Gallons, 11000 watts in 25 minutes
30 Gallons, 22000 watts in 9 minutes
30 Gallons, 11000 watts in 19 minutes

I'm kinda curious how this compares to BK's numbers.

I think I might start out with 11000. That will be 22000 between the two vessels. I will weld three 1 inch half couplers into them just in case I want to add a third element.

I will be doing plenty of testing before I go "live" with it so I should be able to figure it out. I was thinking about going 3/4 for tubing and pumps. I might look into the cost of going to a full inch. I was going to stick with the camlocks I am using on my current rig. I really like how they work. They are easy enough to keep clean. I have a spreadsheet put together for parts. I just need to review it before I place the orders.

As for my plans on fermentation. It depends on where we are located. If I can get the place I want they already have a walk-in cooler. I will build a room for fermenting and use an air conditioner with controller I found from a wine equipment company. Then I will transfer to second fermenters in the walk-in to brighten/clear the beer. This will serve as our tax room too. Making it much easier to document what is taxable and what is not.

Those numbers are good. I would take a copy of that spreadsheet if you don't mind. jstalbot at gmail dot com.

You might want to start planning for a cooling jacket for the fermenters, ambient air cooling is not going to be sufficient with that size of fermenter. The simple method would be wrapping base of fermenter with copper tubing and circulating near freezing glycol to hold fermenter temp down. The general heat generation rate for yeast resperation is about 500 BTU/Barrel per hour, which is why almost all the larger fermenters are jacketed and glycol cooled to hold ferment temps.

Will 1" couplers work? Elements have straight threads, which is why I welded 1" straight thread nuts to my kettles.

Ranger9913 said:

Will 1" couplers work? Elements have straight threads, which is why I welded 1" straight thread nuts to my kettles.

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I used 1" half couplings on my keggles and it works great. No issues

kladue said:

You might want to start planning for a cooling jacket for the fermenters, ambient air cooling is not going to be sufficient with that size of fermenter. The simple method would be wrapping base of fermenter with copper tubing and circulating near freezing glycol to hold fermenter temp down. The general heat generation rate for yeast resperation is about 500 BTU/Barrel per hour, which is why almost all the larger fermenters are jacketed and glycol cooled to hold ferment temps.

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I was wondering about that. I thought maybe I could figure out a way to do both. Cool the room and run cooling system around the fermenters. I will have to give that some serious thought.

I knew of one low tech 3 barrel system that was using 50' of 1/2" copper in the bottom of an ice machine for cooling. Not elegant but functional with a grundfoss circulator pump and a simple remote bulb thermostat to start/stop circulation pump.

Just for a real world example, My BK is a 55 gallon SS drum. I make either 30 or 35 gallon batches. I heat all my water in the BK. I have two 4500 watt elements in the BK. To heat 50 gallons of water from 50 to 160, it takes me about 100 min. The BK is not insulated. When sparging, I turn on the elements as soon as they are covered by wort. I am nearly to a boil by the time the sparge is completed. During the boil, I run the elements on 85% power for a 30 gallon batch and 90% power for a 35 gallon batch. 11,000 watts would clearly be better than 9000 but my GFI breaker is only 50 amps. I think you are on the right track using a minimum of 11,000 watts in the BK, although I think 16,500 watts would make for a shorter brewday.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/squam-lakes-brewery-pictures-144764/index2.html


check this thread out its for a 55 gallon system
just got our fed and state approval last week
We have brewed several trial lots using the final set up

My feeling is to go with a Blichmann fermentor (1 barrel) system and then you avoid all the cooling problems of the bigger fermentors

We use the BK to heat the mash water and then fill one of the 44 gallon white rubermade buckets. We runj the same as stevenhaun and sparge into the brew kettle and things are at a boil about the same time the sparge is over.

We are adding two more fermentors with wheels this time and would be able to role them into a cooler if thats required.

This is SO tagged. I want to do something similar to the OP, someday.

Be sure to take pics of the 55g builds.

I just ordered the Drums. I have 4 of them shipping tomorrow. I am going to order the fitting this weekend too. I am going to keep this build simple. Nothing too fancy as far as electronics and flow panels. I want more flexibility with this system then I have on my personal system.

I will post pictures along the way on this build. I can't wait to get started.

Brewmoor said:

I just ordered the Drums. I have 4 of them shipping tomorrow. I am going to order the fitting this weekend too. I am going to keep this build simple. Nothing too fancy as far as electronics and flow panels. I want more flexibility with this system then I have on my personal system.

I will post pictures along the way on this build. I can't wait to get started.

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Awesome, congrats!

Cant wait to see some pictures

Hey, sounds like you are doing a similar setup to what we're trying to start here. 55 gallon drum brewhouse as a sort of start up brewery while still keeping the day job.

kladue,
I'm curious what makes you say that cooling with ambient air will not work at this size? Do you have working experience of this? Of course I know that the internal temp of the fermenting beer will be higher than ambient, but that is easy to correct. We plan on monitoring the internal temp of the beer and using that as a guideline for selecting the ambient temps. We will have box fans all around to make sure the temps are consistent. Are you saying this will not work?

I am not an expert on cooling liquids but I can't imagine why you wouldn't be able to accurately control 100 gallon fermenters with ambient air temps. I mean if you have the insulated room anywhere from 55-60 degrees I would have to assume the liquids in the fermenters would have to follow suit to at least 68 degrees if not less.

Ranger9913 said:

I am not an expert on cooling liquids but I can't imagine why you wouldn't be able to accurately control 100 gallon fermenters with ambient air temps. I mean if you have the insulated room anywhere from 55-60 degrees I would have to assume the liquids in the fermenters would have to follow suit to at least 68 degrees if not less.

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I think you're right - However, you would have to vary the temperature of the room as the fermentation progresses... Powerful active fermentation could last a day or 2 where the yeast is putting off a lot of heat, but after that you would then increase the temperature of the room to keep the core temp of the fermenter stable.

That's all fine and good, until you add 5 more tanks at different stages of fermentation That will complicate using the room temperature to control liquid temperature.

Again, It's not a deal breaker, just something to be aware of...

On this scale, it my be practical to use a small glycol system and some sort of immersion chiller, or submersible plate chiller like they use for wine.
Because, if you're after repeatability, fermentation temperature for any single recipe needs to be very close to the batch before.
OTOH, I doubt 1 or 2 fermenters out of 6 in a climate controlled room will pull the temperature of the room (And non-active fermenters) up my any degree that the AC units couldn't handle...

But hey, I have no practical knowledge. Just trying to think through it.

I am going to go with the 110 gallon tank from here: http://www.tank-depot.com/productdetails.aspx?part=A-IN0110-30

I am going to plan on just maintaining temps with ambient air. I live in a fairly mild climate. I will have to worry more about heating the room then I will cooling it for most of the year. If I find that during the dead of summer I am having some issue I think I will make a copper coil to wrap the fermenters in.

I can't WAIT to see 6 of those lined up and bubbling away

Epic