Batch sparging. I'm a convert

I've been shying away from batch sparging for awhile because I have been a bit intimidated.

That being said, I did it for the first time today and I am convinced this is the way for me to go from here. I followed Denny's guidelines at http://hbd.org/cascade/dennybrew/ and it could not have been easier. I still have a couple of kinks to work out in the process but I will call it a first time success.

I was expecting an efficiency hit from batch sparging which I may or may not have taken (I'll explain)

I usually anticipate 65% efficiency in my rig with fly sparging and usually wind up no less than 65%, sometimes 70%. I don't own a sparge arm and I mash and lauter in a 10 gal Igloo round cooler with a bazooka screen. I have always just spent a few extra pennies on grain and anticipated 65%. Sometimes I would squeeze a few extra points out of my mash and be happy.

So I was pretty timid about jumping to batch sparging because I'd always heard that you could anticipate a small drop in efficiency with it.

This time however, in addition to batch sparging, I'd spent a few days in the Brew Science forum getting a crash course in water chemistry from "ajdelange". I hit my mash temp dead on the nose today and with AJ's water chem tips, I was sitting around 5.1 mash pH with the alkalinity in my water MUCH reduced.

So I may have taken the efficiency hit and just been fortunate to have had some good water adjustments on my side. Or I could have wound up with good water chem and the batch sparge left me no worse off than I usually am in terms of efficiency.

Either way, batch sparging went alot quicker. It was nice to see that I didn't wind up with a load of grain chunks in my wort (my second biggest fear). I'm sold and will make it part of my brew day process going forward. The wife was also pleased that I was done brewing a little faster and on to family time.

p.s. - I went for the trifecta of new processes today. First the batch sparging. Then the water chemistry. I also made my first big yeast starter. 1.3l for a 1.052 beer. It fell in line with the calculater at Mr. Malty. It's been 2 hrs since I pitched and I am hoping to see som bubbling any minute

Using an igloo cooler, batch sparging is actually a better way to go. It all really depends on your system. When I was using a cooler, I batch sparged and consistantly saw 75%+ efficiency. I still batch sparge on my single tier and hit 80% now.

im about 8 brews in to all grain. i double batch sparge and get 80-85% every time. I tried a single batch sparge and got about 73%. the extra rinse seems to help me out a good bit. what was your efficiency with yoru first batch sparge?

forgot to mention - i use a 10gal round cooler with steel braid

Double batch sparge is the way to go. I consistently get 75-85% efficiency with my double batch sparge and the beer comes out great.

I find a double batch sparge is easier & quicker than a fly anyway. Welcome to the club!

I did double-batch, I think. Actually, I tried for 2 but had to do a small amount of extra water and do a third sparge to get my pre-boil volume. I mashed for 60 min. Added about a half gallon of boiling water, stirred, recirculated until clear and then took my first running. I then added half of my anticipated sparge amount, stirred, waited a few min, then recirculated and drained.

I repeated this and collected again. I found I was about a half gallon short of where I wanted to be, so I added another gallon of sparge water and repeated the process a third time, stopping at my anticipated pre-boil volume.

My efficiency numbers are a bit hard to nail down on this one. I had a minor boil over and lost a little wort (that will teach me to watch football and brew at the same time). I also boiled a little more vigorously than I anticipated and wound up about a half gallon shy of what I had calculated for. When I topped off with 1/2 gallon of water and mixed it in with the wort, I hit the gravity I had anticipated at an assumption of 65% efficiency.

I'd be willing (even happy) to believe that I actually achieved higher efficiency than expected but that between my boil overs, my top offs, etc., I just lost the data needed to effectively calculate.

win- I personally wouldn't top off with 1/2 gallon of water after your boil even if you missed your intended wort level. This will only diminish your OG and give less flavor to your beer. When I have missed my intended wort amount after boil I just leave it as is. Its never below 4.5 gal for a 5 gal batch either way. That's about 5-7 beers extra anyway and I wouldn't jeopardise my finished product for such little return. Anyway just my two cents. Welcome to double batch (and sometimes triple batch) sparging.

With a braid you should batch sparge, with a false bottom you could fly sparge (but you should batch sparge.) At a homebrew level there is little to be gained fly sparging. To fly spage you need a very good launtering system (manifold/false bottom.) A braid/bazooka is not a very good launter device. You also need a good sparge diffuser to fly sparge. Channeling is a big problem that batch spaging totally eliminates.

Alright. I'm outta this thread before it turns ugly (and it will).

RebelHouse32 said:

win- I personally wouldn't top off with 1/2 gallon of water after your boil even if you missed your intended wort level. This will only diminish your OG and give less flavor to your beer. When I have missed my intended wort amount after boil I just leave it as is. Its never below 4.5 gal for a 5 gal batch either way. That's about 5-7 beers extra anyway and I wouldn't jeopardise my finished product for such little return. Anyway just my two cents. Welcome to double batch (and sometimes triple batch) sparging.

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I always top off if I miss my OG. If I hit 1.070 and I'm trying for 1.065, I aways top off to hit my desired OG. Your recipe is designed for a certain OG/IBU ratio, so you want to keep that. If your OG is fine, your beer is fine. A slightly higher OG usually doesn't matter, but I usually fix it if I'm way over.

I single. The extra efficiency isn't worth the 40-45 more minutes for a double.

I agreep with Yoop....I used to think stronger was better but then I realized it's going to take longer to age, and the beer will probably be unbalanced for the style. It's kinda like making a pale ale, only to have it turn out as strong as an IPA and way underhopped.

YooperBrew said:

I always top off if I miss my OG. If I hit 1.070 and I'm trying for 1.065, I aways top off to hit my desired OG. Your recipe is designed for a certain OG/IBU ratio, so you want to keep that. If your OG is fine, your beer is fine. A slightly higher OG usually doesn't matter, but I usually fix it if I'm way over.

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I do the same.

So is this what it feels like to be hijacked? :fro:

I don't know if you were looking for a specific answer to a question, but considering this turned into a "type of sparging" and "top-off water" conversation, it's going a lot better than I would have expected. We can discuss whether to decoct or not, then the legalities of sanke keg use, next, if you'd like...

YooperBrew said:

I always top off if I miss my OG. If I hit 1.070 and I'm trying for 1.065, I aways top off to hit my desired OG. Your recipe is designed for a certain OG/IBU ratio, so you want to keep that. If your OG is fine, your beer is fine. A slightly higher OG usually doesn't matter, but I usually fix it if I'm way over.

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How does topping off affect the bitterness though? I know you're lowering the gravity some, but aren't you also affecting the bitterness in some way by increasing the volume or changing the gravity?

If I had 1g of 1.060 wort that is say 40 IBU and I dump in enough water to lower the gravity to 1.040 do I still have 40 IBU at the increased volume?

winvarin said:

So is this what it feels like to be hijacked? :fro:

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Some of my longest threads are hijacked ones. It can be interesting to watch a thread that gets hijacked early and no one ever answers the OP's question.

petep1980 said:

I single. The extra efficiency isn't worth the 40-45 more minutes for a double.

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petep, strictly out of curiosity, why does a double batch take you 40-45 more minutes? i can usually get my two batch sparges done within 10 minutes of each other.

Soperbrew said:

How does topping off affect the bitterness though? I know you're lowering the gravity some, but aren't you also affecting the bitterness in some way by increasing the volume or changing the gravity?

If I had 1g of 1.060 wort that is say 40 IBU and I dump in enough water to lower the gravity to 1.040 do I still have 40 IBU at the increased volume?

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The recipe should determine the BTU amount, right? I mean, if you were boiling at a MUCH thinner wort, then I can see there maybe being a difference. But to plan on putting 2 ounces of hops in at 60 minutes, then you have 2 ounces at 60 minutes. A slight difference in gravity will not alter the isomerization process enough to be able to measure IMO.

Therefore, even if you boiloff a bit more, or miss you OG during the mash, you are still pretty much dead on at the end. Topping off is basically only correcting what would have been a too hoppy (according to the recipe) beer.

I agree with Yoop, I'd top off if necessary (although I'm so good it's never been necessary

And I double batch sparge. IF you have a good manifold design, and care to rig up the stuff to do fly sparge, it can be easier once you get the hang of it. Batch sparging, with included vorlaufs, can take as much time, and is more hands on. I'm not sure it's less efficient though. I have gotten 80%+ in the few times I've bothered to measure.

It can be debated whether a volume difference isomerizes acids more or less, but adding top off water would change the bitterness in a different sense. Just think of concentration and dilution.

If you add a half gallon to 40IBU 5 gallon wort, you will have <40 IBU in 5.5 gallons since the concentration of acid is now lower. Granted, the OG will also be lowered so it wouldn't necessarily make it seem less bitter.

android said:

petep, strictly out of curiosity, why does a double batch take you 40-45 more minutes? i can usually get my two batch sparges done within 10 minutes of each other.

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I'm assuming he's talking about the time it's taking him to heat his water also. I used to use a 6.5 gallon pot to heat my strike/sparge water in, and with some beers (if I wanted to do a double batch) I wouldn't be able to fit the entire amount of water in the pot. I'd have to heat the first portion, sparge, then heat the next portion while the first one is draining..

I'm somewhat new to this but here is what I'm doing and it works well. I'm using a 60 qt rectangular Igloo. I tried a bazooka Braid first and all it did was clog, PITA, so i found instructions in the book for building a copper manifold, so I did with some 1/2 scrap copper I had in the garage. works perfectly. no more clogging. so I mash for 60 minutes, recirculate the 1st gallon or so, then take the 1st runnings. Add sparge water and let it set for 10 minutes.Drain. I am getting almost all my water/wort back, and have hit my target for Ales at 1.45-1.50 each time. I did screw up a little on my last mash sunday, as i missed my temp, came out at 144-143 dg, and hit 1.039 sg. we will see how that beer turns out. tasted the wort and it wasent as sweet as my others.

android said:

petep, strictly out of curiosity, why does a double batch take you 40-45 more minutes? i can usually get my two batch sparges done within 10 minutes of each other.

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Brings up an interesting question I had when doing my first batch sparge this weekend. How long is the desired wait between sparges? I think Denny advocates about 10 min. Which is what I was keeping to. But does that 10 min include recirc time? I would put the next round of water in, wait 10 min, then start to recirculate. I found that after the initial running, I had to recirculate very little until I got a clear running. A quart or less.

Then I would just drain and fill again.

10min is my standard, but whether it's common (or makes logical/mathmatical sense) or not, i've found a slight increase in efficiency (~5%) when i've forgotten about the wait and it's been extended to 20-25min.

Suthrncomfrt1884 said:

I'm assuming he's talking about the time it's taking him to heat his water also. I used to use a 6.5 gallon pot to heat my strike/sparge water in, and with some beers (if I wanted to do a double batch) I wouldn't be able to fit the entire amount of water in the pot. I'd have to heat the first portion, sparge, then heat the next portion while the first one is draining..

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didn't think of that...

i normally wait 5 minutes or less, i just stir the heck out of it, let it settle and then let her rip. i always vorlauf a 2qt pitcher and it's generally clear by that time. i haven't noticed any difference in efficiency letting it sit a longer period.

Conroe said:

With a braid you should batch sparge, with a false bottom you could fly sparge (but you should batch sparge.) At a homebrew level there is little to be gained fly sparging. To fly spage you need a very good launtering system (manifold/false bottom.) A braid/bazooka is not a very good launter device. You also need a good sparge diffuser to fly sparge. Channeling is a big problem that batch spaging totally eliminates.

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I fly sparge, and the set up is rather elementary. I have a 5 gallon MLT, and a SS braid. I cut my sparge at 6 gallons, which gives me consistently over 80%. I could get over 90 at 7 gallons, but I'd rather not risk the extra tannin extraction. My Diffuser-- 2 pie tins with holes punches. The bottom one is flattened, the top one is a bowl shape. Works great.