Champagne Cider

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jawats

jawats

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All, I made a cider in this way:

  1. 5 gallons apple juice (only preservative was ascorbic acid)
  2. 2 cups honey
  3. Red Star Pasteur Champagne Yeast

I put it in to ferment on Feb. 18. It's slowed almost to nonexistent now, so I tasted a cup. It has beautiful champagne bubbles, but is very weak tasting (watery...maybe?). I had expected something a bit stronger. I have several thoughts at this point. I still plan to let it ferment for another 1.5 - 2 weeks. However, I have considered adding:

1. Some corn sugar to boost ABV.
2. Some maltodextrin to boost mouth feel.
3. Some apple extract (which I got from the brewer) to boost apple flavor.

I will bottle it with the apple juice equivalent of 1 oz. of sugar (probably) per gallon when I am ready to bottle. Any thoughts on the above?

Thanks!

--Jonathan
 
My opinion: it is far too early to even THINK about adding a bunch of stuff or even bottling. Step away from the carboy, the yeast knows what it's doing. Don't add anything, and don't bottle until the cider is crystal clear.



Seriously, let it be.



Seriously.
 
jawats - OK, you may think about racking to secondary. If the the taste is a little watery for you, you may think about throwing in a can or two of concentrate (I use one tree top) for a 5 gallon batch to back sweeten and bump up the flavor when I go from secondary into the keg after around 2-3 months for a normal cider. Making apple wine your talking 6-8 months.
Seriously? :p
 
Kauai_Kahuna said:
jawats - OK, you may think about racking to secondary. If the the taste is a little watery for you, you may think about throwing in a can or two of concentrate (I use one tree top) for a 5 gallon batch to back sweeten and bump up the flavor when I go from secondary into the keg after around 2-3 months for a normal cider. Making apple wine your talking 6-8 months.
Seriously? :p
Click to expand...

Ahh, shoot. I was going for cider. This means I need to buy more fermenters, as I have an Edwort's going in the other one. My wife will love me. She'll have to deal, after all the stuff she bought for her knitting forum rec's. :mug:

I think I'll rack it to secondary and drop a can of concentrate. I'll try and find Tree Top, or something similar.

--J.
 
Similar to my house cider. Nothing but simple Wal-Mart apple juice and Red Star Pasteur. I ferment cool for two weeks and then rack to a secondary with sorbate and let it chill out for 4-6 weeks at 32 deg. Back-sweeten with concentrate and force-carb. Taste is very comparable to Strongbow and it disappears instantly at every party.
 
jkarp said:
Similar to my house cider. Nothing but simple Wal-Mart apple juice and Red Star Pasteur. I ferment cool for two weeks and then rack to a secondary with sorbate and let it chill out for 4-6 weeks at 32 deg. Back-sweeten with concentrate and force-carb. Taste is very comparable to Strongbow and it disappears instantly at every party.
Click to expand...

I ferment at 60 - 65 (basement temp). I do not have the ability to force carb, so I do not wish to kill off all the yeast.
 
You might want to do a search on honey.

I seem to remember several posts saying that honey takes way longer to ferment down to below 1.000 than refined sugar.

What was the OG? It will probably read low even it was heated and thoroughly dispersed throughout the juice, compared to an identical batch with sugar instead.

What is the current SG? Give it a chance (plenty of time, like another month) to finish below 1.000, before tampering with it.

No matter what, waiting can only make it better!

I seriously doubt if you will use the term 'weak' when it's done.

Pogo
 
Pogo said:
You might want to do a search on honey.

I seem to remember several posts saying that honey takes way longer to ferment down to below 1.000 than refined sugar.

What was the OG? It will probably read low even it was heated and thoroughly dispersed throughout the juice, compared to an identical batch with sugar instead.

What is the current SG? Give it a chance (plenty of time, like another month) to finish below 1.000, before tampering with it.

No matter what, waiting can only make it better!

I seriously doubt if you will use the term 'weak' when it's done.

Pogo
Click to expand...

I noted in another forum - being a newb, I did not get a OG reading (a mistake I will not make again). I am somewhat twitchy about opening my brews to take gravity readings, with the amount I've read about sanitation. However, when I rack to secondary, before adding the apple concentrate, I will take a SG reading (and then another after the concentrate). I will post the results.
 
Okay, I racked to secondary, but (alas!) forgot to grab a SG reading (probably because I had another brew on the stove). I did not find suitable concentrate, but I did find an interesting apple juice from Simply Orange Juice

It bills itself:

Simply Apple Juice isn't like the apple juice you've always known. It doesn't look like the apple juice you've always known. Or taste like it. It tastes like biting into a crisp, juicy, perfectly ripe apple.

Made from 100% pure pressed apple juice, Simply Apple is never sweetened and never concentrated.
Click to expand...

12 hours later, no fermentation bubbles going on. When y'all rack, do you transfer any of the yeast cake at the bottom, or just rack and go with whatever transfers over?
 
RDWHAHB. Cider takes time, just let it be and it'll all turn out fine. The simply apple is awesome, I've used it for a batch with WLP023 yeast, it's not done yet (only 4 months old) but at bottling it tasted fantastic.

Edit: Oh, and when I rack, I try to bring as little yeast over as I can to the secondary.
 
Freezeblade said:
RDWHAHB. Cider takes time, just let it be and it'll all turn out fine. The simply apple is awesome, I've used it for a batch with WLP023 yeast, it's not done yet (only 4 months old) but at bottling it tasted fantastic.

Edit: Oh, and when I rack, I try to bring as little yeast over as I can to the secondary.
Click to expand...

Mr. Freeze,

If Simply weren't so darn expensive, I'd make all my ciders with it.

That's good on the yeast - I brought very little over, as far as I can tell. Racking to secondary is for clarity and taste development purposes, then?

-J.
 
jawats said:
Mr. Freeze,

If Simply weren't so darn expensive, I'd make all my ciders with it.

That's good on the yeast - I brought very little over, as far as I can tell. Racking to secondary is for clarity and taste development purposes, then?

-J.
Click to expand...

secondary is for clarity and bulk aging, yes. As for the price, the local Target around here has the simply apple for $2.50 apiece, that's not bad, usually treetop is $4 a gallon or so, not too bad, just need to know where to look for it I suspose.
 
Freezeblade said:
secondary is for clarity and bulk aging, yes. As for the price, the local Target around here has the simply apple for $2.50 apiece, that's not bad, usually treetop is $4 a gallon or so, not too bad, just need to know where to look for it I suspose.
Click to expand...

Tar-gzjay, the fine French store. Yes, I will have to check that out. Thanks!
 
i'd say the weak watery taste could be caused by the apples used to make that juice.
i could be wrong.
but that what i think.
let it do its thing, like the others said, and backsweeten....
 
felix said:
i'd say the weak watery taste could be caused by the apples used to make that juice.
i could be wrong.
but that what i think.
let it do its thing, like the others said, and backsweeten....
Click to expand...

Yessir! :)
 
Straight cider will ferment out in about 1 month then in another month it's ready to drink.

Honey takes a while to ferment out. When using honey, I tend to just add 2 months onto whatever schedule I thought I was going to follow. Bit it's worth the wait.;)
 
homebrewer_99 said:
Straight cider will ferment out in about 1 month then in another month it's ready to drink.

Honey takes a while to ferment out. When using honey, I tend to just add 2 months onto whatever schedule I thought I was going to follow. Bit it's worth the wait.;)
Click to expand...

So, the Edwort's apple wine I dropped in late Feb. should be ready by late March?
 
Freezeblade said:
Apple wine =/= cider. I think that if you tried drinking one month old apfelwein, it would be VERY green, and not to your liking at all.
Click to expand...

So, the fact that I used champagne yeast and honey in the cider would tend to move it to more of an apple wine timeframe?
 
The higher the ABV (and also the dryer it is), the longer it will take to be ready. You added extra fermentables, and used a wine yeast, which leaves a dryer product.

"Ready" is really a subjective term, as some people seem to like Ed's apfelwein, or ciders after only 1-2 months (however I think they would wait if they ever tried some 6 month and older stuff). Homebrewer_99 likes his straight cider after 2 months it seems, whereas I can't stand it untill it is at least 3-4 months, but gets better the longer you let it condition. If I add fermentables or get above an OG of 1.055 or so, I tack on a few extra months to my schedule. IMHO cider and wine is not like beer, it takes time and patience. Fill up the pipeline and just wait, and after 3+ months of conditioning you'll be happier for it. YMMV.
 
Freezeblade said:
The higher the ABV (and also the dryer it is), the longer it will take to be ready. You added extra fermentables, and used a wine yeast, which leaves a dryer product.

"Ready" is really a subjective term, as some people seem to like Ed's apfelwein, or ciders after only 1-2 months (however I think they would wait if they ever tried some 6 month and older stuff). Homebrewer_99 likes his straight cider after 2 months it seems, whereas I can't stand it untill it is at least 3-4 months, but gets better the longer you let it condition. If I add fermentables or get above an OG of 1.055 or so, I tack on a few extra months to my schedule. IMHO cider and wine is not like beer, it takes time and patience. Fill up the pipeline and just wait, and after 3+ months of conditioning you'll be happier for it. YMMV.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Mr. Freeze!
 
Yeah I made a batch of cyser with 5 gallons local apple cider, 4# local wildflower honey, and cote de blancs yeast in early October. Its been bottled for 2 months now and doesn't even taste that great yet. Wait for it!
 
coldrice said:
Yeah I made a batch of cyser with 5 gallons local apple cider, 4# local wildflower honey, and cote de blancs yeast in early October. Its been bottled for 2 months now and doesn't even taste that great yet. Wait for it!
Click to expand...

Sage advice!
 
jawats said:
Snuff,

How did you do the "kick yer' butt Hard Cider"?

--J
Click to expand...

Late reply - but that was

5 gallons of Applejuice - 4 pounds of Turbinadao sugar
Ec-1118, yeast nutrient, 16 ounces applejuice concentrate for priming and 3/4 cup splenda for backsweetening.

this was one of my first batches - came out HOT... it's almost gone now.
there are a few bottles left I think.
 

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