time for protein rest in cooler tun

I'm sure this has been asked before, but here goes anyway. I'm brewing my first AG batch tomorrow, and I'm using a rectangular cooler for my tun. If I want to do a protein rest at 120F then my saccharification rest at153F after that, do I use 20minutes for protein rest PLUS 60 minutes for sacch rest for total of 80 minutes or can i just use a total of 60 minutes with the 20min protein rest included?

I'm planning on batch sparging, so my next temp would be at 168-170F for 10-15min, correct?

The short answer is you need to do sacch. rest until conversion is complete. Generally speaking, this means 60 minutes + 20 minutes from the protein rest as the enzymes that are active during sacch. aren't active during the protein rest.

But...why do you want to do a protein rest?

I've heard that for german pilsner malt, since they are not fully modified, they benefit from a protein rest for head retention and less chill haze. If it's overkill, I'm certainly happy to scratch the protein rest.

I believe that most base malts, even Pilsen, are today well modified (though I may be mistaken). I have never done a protein rest with Pilsen and have gotten good efficiencies and clear beer with a secondary aging. I would scratch the protein rest and go with a single temp infusion unless somebody who knows more than I do (not unusual) about Pilsen malt comes along and suggest otherwise. Especially for your first batch...just worry about getting the sacch temp correct and then go to more advanced techniques.

BeeGee said:

I believe that most base malts, even Pilsen, are today well modified (though I may be mistaken).

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That is the info that I have as well.

Kai

OK, I'll go with the single temp. 153F for 60min (or until complete) here I come.

Gotta go, but I'll keep you updated...

Coincidentally, I was looking at Austin Homebrew's site this morning and they actually sell both Pilsen malt and undermodified Pilsen malt. This further leads me to believe that anything sold as run-of-the-mill Pilsen malt should be fully modified. However, it also indicates that it is possible to buy undermodified base malt if you're so inclined!

BeeGee said:

Coincidentally, I was looking at Austin Homebrew's site this morning and they actually sell both Pilsen malt and undermodified Pilsen malt. This further leads me to believe that anything sold as run-of-the-mill Pilsen malt should be fully modified. However, it also indicates that it is possible to buy undermodified base malt if you're so inclined!

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Interesting fact. This might be especially important if you want to do a decoction mash, and w/o a protein rest you may run out of rests that you can decoct to or from.

You can also check the modification of the malt by looking at the acrospire. if it is 3/4 to full length of the kernel, the malt is well modified. I checked for the German malt that I'm using, and it is on average 3/4 of the kernel's length. I'm still trying to get a lot analysis for this malt, though. This will tell me the modification grade and if a protein rest is necessary/beneficial or not.

Kai