Extract Chocolate Stout???

Hello all.

I recently aquired an EDME Extra Stout kit at a very good price. I wasn't looking to make a stout next, but it seems the opportunity just presented itself. I am curious about seeing if I can turn this kit into a Double Chocolate Stout. I was just thinking of adding some cocoa powder at different times during the boil or possibly in the secondary. Not sure how much to add, though. Maybe even adding some different hops, too. The kit also says extra malt is needed and I have 3lbs of DME @ home, but I'm not sure if that would make it too dark. A friend told me a Chocolate Stout kit he recently purchased from AHS came with a packet of chocolate powder to add at the time of bottling. Do you think this would be a different type of chocolate (ie. not Hershey's cocoa powder)?

If the concensus here is not to mess with the kit, then I'll probably turn it into an Armistice Ale...recipe found here: http://www.thehomebrewstore.com/FoamyExpress0511.htm

Some of the Chocolate Stout recipes I've found and thought about making a hybrid with this kit are found here:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=14656
http://www.brewingkb.com/recipes/Chocolate-Stout-631.html

Thoughts?

The general consensus that I seen when I brewing a Double Chocolate Stout was to use cocoa nibs in the secondary. Do a search on my username and you'll see my post about the recipe I came up with and subsequently some other ones that people have done as well; from what I recall there are some pretty good ones in that post. There were several different takes on it.

The recipe I came up with wasn't too shabby, but with cocoa powder you can definitely taste a different flavor that is produced from using it; its not bad, but a bit different. Everyone that tried it really liked it, but it was very malty!

You will want to add cocoa powder (8-10oz seemed to be adequate for most) during the last 15 minutes of your boil. Some folks didn't go this route and just added a chocolate extract to bottling or kegging time and, as I mentioned earlier, the most popular method was good ole nibs in the secondary to bring out the best flavor.

BYO has a Young's Double Chocolate Stout clone in their 150 clone beer recipes as well.

As far as coming up with colors, you can go the Dark DME / LME route but you'll also get a lot of your color by steeping darker grains and using a Light / Extra Light DME / LME. Using malts like Chocolate, Roasted Barley, Crystals and Black Patent will make your beer plenty dark enough to classify as a stout.

Best of luck!

Ok. So after reading all of the threads I could find about Chocolate Stouts, I have somewhat formulated a very basic recipe.

1 lb black patent
1 lb chocolate malt
1 4lb can EDME Extra Stout kit
3 lbs Dark DME
8 oz cocoa powder last 15min.
Some kind of hops
Windsor Ale yeast

Crushed cocoa beans in the secondary (how much?)

The EDME kit is already hopped - how much more should I be adding and what kind do you think it's hopped with? It looks like Northern Brewer or Fuggles are the hop of choice for stouts...does this sound right? At what point should I add them...60 min for bitterness, 30 min for flavor, and 15-10 for aroma?

Also...does the grain need to be increased or decreased? Most people who have posted here have all grain recipes...but since this is a mini-mash, and I'm just going for color and a little bit of flavor, I'm not sure if I am even close to the correct ratios.

I don't have a ABV calculator with the program I'm using...does anyone know what % this will turn out to be? Might also add 1 lb corn sugar depending on that.
The biggest thing to remember is that I would like BIG chocolate flavor...If what I have isn't enough, I might even add more essence in the bottling bucket.

I'm really trying to keep this low cost, but don't want this to turn out mediochre, either. So, I'd really like to keep the EDME kit and cocoa powder in the recipe...I also have a wide asst. of hops in the fridge to choose from. Home brewing is fun, but it's alot more fun when you can make a really good beer cheaply!

From my brief experience doing extract brews with Chocolate Malt and Black Patent. 1Lb of each is too much. I'd scale the Black Patent and Chocolate Malt down to 10oz in total. I made a porter with 2lbs of chocolate malt and it was far to over powering.

--- Modified Recipe ---
5 oz. (.31 lbs) black patent
5 oz. (.31 lbs) chocolate malt
1 4lb can EDME Extra Stout kit
3 lbs DME
1-2 lbs DRE (to kick up the SG)
8 oz cocoa powder last 15min.
Some kind of hops

your hop schedule seems correct as far as bittering, flavor , and aroma.
ProMash estimates the SG @ 1.049 for a 6.5 Gal batch, yielding 5 Gal wort. Assuming your FG will reach 1.010 this is about 5%abv, if you want to kick up the alcohol content without altering the flavor try 1-2lbs of dried rice extract.
2lbs of Dried Rice Extract will bring the SG up to 1.062, potential for 6.6%abv

Festivus Triple Chocolate Stout
(To be brewed on the 23rd day of December, 2007, Festivus)
Edited recipe:

5 oz black patent
5 oz chocolate malt
5 oz roasted barley
1 4lb can EDME Extra Stout kit
3 lbs Dark DME
Maybe 1 lb DRE (depending on whether or not I can get to LHBS, if not then corn sugar)
4 oz cocoa powder 30 min
.5 oz Northern Brewer - 60 min
.5 oz Fuggle - 30 min
.5 oz Fuggle - 15 min
4 oz cocoa powder - 15 min
12 oz Lactose - 10 min
1 pack Windsor Ale yeast

In secondary:
2-4oz vanilla
Crushed cocoa beans(how much?), or possibly 8-12 oz chocolate liquer such as creme de cacao(will this ferment?)

Remember...BIG chocolate flavor.
Thoughts or critiques?

I would use Irish ale yeast myself. It was made for stouts.

cheezydemon said:

I would use Irish ale yeast myself. It was made for stouts.

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Would Nottingham Ale be any closer?

Pyro said:

Would Nottingham Ale be any closer?

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Not in my book lol. Do you not have a LHBS? I may be able to ship you some.

cheezydemon said:

Not in my book lol. Do you not have a LHBS? I may be able to ship you some.

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I do, but it's an hour away...with the holiday rush and all I don't think I'll be able to make it there.

Still need critiques on my updated Festivus Triple Chocolate Stout recipe.
Anyone?...
Anyone?...
Bueller?...
Bueller?...

Here’s some thoughts off the top of my head after listening to Jamil’s sweet stout and dry stout podcast.

.75lb chocolate
.5lb crystal 80L
.5lb black malt
1 4lb can EDME Extra Stout kit
3 lbs Dark DME
.5 oz Northern Brewer - 60 min
.5 oz Fuggle - 30 min
.5 oz Fuggle - 15 min
8 oz cocoa powder - 15 min
12 oz Lactose - 10 min
1 pack Windsor Ale yeast

Stick with the yeast you got, I’d stay away from the Irish Stout as it’ll be too dry in the finish for the style.

As for 4oz of coco powder… not sure I’d have to say more but that’s up to you. Play around with it. Put an ounce in a gallon of water and see how chocolate it tastes…granted you’ll get some chocolatish flavor from the chocolate malt…but still I’m skeptical.

I would even consider about a 1/2lb of victory or maybe even some brown malt for some added depth.

Go with English of Irish ale yeast but stay away from the Irish Dry Stout yeast as it’ll finish too dry.

Also, cut your priming sugar in half. I'll increase the creaminess. If you’re concerned about head retention due to less sugar add some flaked barley.

Just some thoughts, hope they help.

Thanks for the reply Scott. That sounds like good advice to add the victory or brown for depth. One question though, will cutting the priming sugar in half be enough to carb? Or will it be too flat?

I think for a sweet stout with chocolate I would skip the Fuggles additions. You want the stout to remain sweet and chocolately flavored. Extra hops flavor doesn't really go to may taste. For other stouts this may be OK but with the chocolate I don't think its needed.
I think either windsor or nottingham works for yeast. The lactose will keep it from becoming dry.
Craig

Pyro said:

Thanks for the reply Scott. That sounds like good advice to add the victory or brown for depth. One question though, will cutting the priming sugar in half be enough to carb? Or will it be too flat?

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I’ve never tried it but meant to in my Scottish Ale. I re-listened to Jamil’s Dry Stout podcast last night on my way home from work and he was discussing how over carbonating will cause a dry stout to become over astringent, that's why dry stouts usually use nitrogen/Co2 mix. Granted he's using 10% roasted barley and no black or chocolate so I'm not entirelly sure it the same will hold true with your grain bill. He recommended to go 1.5 – 2 volumes for kegging to get a more creamy mouth feel and recommended to half the normal amount of priming sugar for bottle conditioning. I’m sure half will give you some carbonation, much less then normal but maybe use 3oz instead of 4oz just to play safe.

I’m really beginning to understand the relationship of priming sugar to the finished beer after listing to almost all Jamil’s shows. I now know that some of the problems I had with my Scottish Ale is over carbonation as it really over dries the mouth feel, it should be smooth and malty but comes across as sharp and dry. Next time I’ll cut back and see what happens.

Just finished a 4 pack of the Young’s Double Chocolate Stout last night and I’m dieing to make a stout now but me and bluelou6 have plans for an Alt in January. Guess I’ll put it on the docket for February.

Can’t wait to hear how it comes out!

ScottD13 said:

I’m really beginning to understand the relationship of priming sugar to the finished beer after listing to almost all Jamil’s shows. I now know that some of the problems I had with my Scottish Ale is over carbonation as it really over dries the mouth feel, it should be smooth and malty but comes across as sharp and dry. Next time I’ll cut back and see what happens.

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I just read a recommendation by another board member to handle a highly carbonated beer that you want smoother. You can do a double pour. Pour the beer into your glass, let it sit a few minutes, then pour it into a second glass. This should leave you with a less carbonated beer and a creamy head. I have had problems with getting enough carbonation in most of my bottled beers but my latest Export Stout seems to be very well carbonated so I may have to try this technique.
Craig

CBBaron said:

I just read a recommendation by another board member to handle a highly carbonated beer that you want smoother. You can do a double pour. Pour the beer into your glass, let it sit a few minutes, then pour it into a second glass. This should leave you with a less carbonated beer and a creamy head. I have had problems with getting enough carbonation in most of my bottled beers but my latest Export Stout seems to be very well carbonated so I may have to try this technique.
Craig

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not to hijack the thread but thanks for that info. I'll try it tonight with my Scottish Ale and see if it takes the dry bite out of it.

Even in high winds, the holiday brewfest was still a fun one. Started steeping around 1PM with 60 mph gusts whipping around the house and light rain. The hardest part was keeping good heat on the kettle...the wind was blowing the flame sideways at some times and the temp was dropping to quickly. All in all, I still think I will come out with a pretty good stout(maybe a little high in ABV, though). Final recipe was as follows.

Festivus Category 5 Double Chocolate Stout
.75 lb Chocolate
.5 lb Black Patent
.5 lb Crystal 80L
.5 lb Victory
.5 lb flaked barley
4 lb EDME Extra Stout kit
3 lb dark DME
1 lb DRE
.5 oz Fuggle 60 min
.5 oz Fuggle 30 min
6 oz cocoa powder 15 min
.75 lb lacotse 10 min
yeast nutient 10 min
Windsor Ale yeast

Still need to find crushed cocoa beans for secondary...any favorite online stores?

Original gravity was 1.084...wow. Made some last minute recipe changes that morning and wasn't planning on it being that high, but you'll have that when you down a few Xmas Ales and wing it. Any ideas on where this yeast will poop out?

Pyro said:

Even in high winds, the holiday brewfest was still a fun one. Started steeping around 1PM with 60 mph gusts whipping around the house and light rain. The hardest part was keeping good heat on the kettle...the wind was blowing the flame sideways at some times and the temp was dropping to quickly. All in all, I still think I will come out with a pretty good stout(maybe a little high in ABV, though). Final recipe was as follows.

Festivus Category 5 Double Chocolate Stout
.75 lb Chocolate
.5 lb Black Patent
.5 lb Crystal 80L
.5 lb Victory
.5 lb flaked barley
4 lb EDME Extra Stout kit
3 lb dark DME
1 lb DRE
.5 oz Fuggle 60 min
.5 oz Fuggle 30 min
6 oz cocoa powder 15 min
.75 lb lacotse 10 min
yeast nutient 10 min
Windsor Ale yeast

Still need to find crushed cocoa beans for secondary...any favorite online stores?

Final gravity was 1.084...wow. Made some last minute recipe changes that morning and wasn't planning on it being that high, but you'll have that when you down a few Xmas Ales and wing it. Any ideas on where this yeast will poop out?

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I seriously doubt your FG was 1.84...your OG I can agree with...

I've made several Irish Stouts, aka Guinness-like. I lighten up on the black patent (halving anyone elses recommendation) and roasted barley (drop by 1/4) some and up the chocolate by half.

I'm sure yours will taste just great.

Sorry...still hungover. :cross: You're correct...original gravity = 1.084

Keep me posted as to how this comes out. Sounds great!

Well, it's been over a week now and I have'nt had any activity in the airlock for a few days. Took a sample this morning and it came out at 1.038 (OG = 1.084). Should be a little over 6%. It has a great taste, but I think I would like a hint more chocolate, so I will be adding more cocoa powder in the secondary...probably 4 oz or so.

I thought the Windsor yeast went a little lower than that, but that's ok...I'm not too concerned about the ABV. What I am concerned about is I not sure if the yeast is finished or if it was killed off. Is there a way that I can tell? I don't want to bottle and wait 2 weeks only to find out that the yeast was dead and it did'nt carb.

Thoughts?

Your talking about the Danstar Windsor?

Danstar Windsor ale yeast originates in England. This yeast produces a beer that is estery to both palate and nose with a slight fresh yeasty flavor. These are usually described as full-bodied, fruity English ales. Depending on the substrate, the Windsor demonstrates moderate attenuation that will leave a relatively high gravity (density). Recommended 17° to 21°C (64° to 70° F) fermentation temperature range.

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Well is says moderate attenuation that leaves a high gravity so I wouldn't expect too much more.


As to the sudden drop out did you have any radical temperature changes or something that would have shocked the beer? If not more than likely everything's fine.

Well I had a brew belt on it that kept it @ a solid 78...except for the few hours that SWMBO unplugged it to grind some coffee and forgot to plug it back in...then it dropped to about 72. That might have done it, huh?

Hey Pyro - I think you're going to have a great beer on your hands in a couple of months. I made EDME extra stout back in October for a Christmas beer. I used the EDME Extra Stout Can, 1 3# Can of Bries Dark Malt Extract, and about 2# of hopped DME, fermented the whole thing for 2 weeks in the mid sixties, then secondary for another couple weeks. I wanted a chocolate stout too, but I used regular Hershey's powder - probably should have used more, I used about 3-4 big heaping tablespoons which was what I thought was a lot at the time, but can't taste the chocolate at all - maybe shouldn't have added it at the end of the boil or something. Anyway, the beer turned out really great - everyone who's tried it liked it.

I don't think you need to worry about it carbing, maybe just give it an extra week - it should be fine.

How did this end up turning out? Sorry to revive a dead thread, but the recipe looked intriguing.