1st time native yeast cider attempt!

So I picked the apples off my neighbors tree and am taking a stab at making a batch of cider using the natural yeast on the fruit. I have cleaned the fruit, It was a little rough on the uncared for tree, but am getting a good amount of nice juice. I am making this very simple just to try it out. Here is the simple recipe.

Approx. 4 Gallon of free juice
1.5 yeast nutrient

That's it. Just want to see how the natural yeast does it's work. Very excited to see how this turns out.

anyone want to chime in on what they think my rate of success may be??

I look forward to your comments.....

Just got done putting the juice in the fermentor. I have brewed and made cider before, but never with fresh pressed juice. I thought Campden tabs would kill fermentation if used first. I was just going to let the wild yeast go nuts, but am nervous about the other bacteria. If I pitch Campden tabs will it kill the bacteria only or the yeast also?

Draagro said:

Just got done putting the juice in the fermentor. I have brewed and made cider before, but never with fresh pressed juice. I thought Campden tabs would kill fermentation if used first. I was just going to let the wild yeast go nuts, but am nervous about the other bacteria. If I pitch Campden tabs will it kill the bacteria only or the yeast also?

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http://www.camra.org.uk/page.php?id=19

That's one way you could make it. In other words, don't worry. Just let nature do its thing.

I tried that about a week ago. Failed miserably. My cider succumbed to "cider sickness". Not even vinegar. . I have a thread about it a couple threads down. I wish you the best luck.

I've had successful wild yeast batches. I always use campden tablets to inhibit any bacteria that might spoil the batch and let the wild Saccharomyces get a head start since they should not be as hindered.

Thanks. I have a 1 gl batch of store bought juice mixed with the pulp of some morning juice that I made to drink that is fermenting like a champ! so I hope this will work too. didn't see that it should be any different, but didn't want to potentially make some sort of weird gasoline/vinegar either. However, I am interested in starting to make vinegar also. think this will be a cool project no matter the results....

mjjakub said:

I tried that about a week ago. Failed miserably. My cider succumbed to "cider sickness". Not even vinegar. . I have a thread about it a couple threads down. I wish you the best luck.

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What did you end up with? I make pickles all the time that just sour naturally. I don't do anything except put them in brine and they always turn out. Sauerkraut, not so much.

Most of the time it works most of the time. But not always all the time.

I've done a bunch of wild yeast ferments. The good ones were low temps (50-55) and fermented slow

highgravitybacon said:

What did you end up with? I make pickles all the time that just sour naturally. I don't do anything except put them in brine and they always turn out. Sauerkraut, not so much.

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me too! there was a (short) discussion on lacto pickles over on the 'cooking and pairing' section. i've still got them coming out of my ears here but they are damn good. kraut too, for me that just never fails, i always keep a jar in stock.

where were we... i agree with the others! i would just add that you can't make vinegar without first making cider; it's the alcohol that the acetobacter feeds on.
i have tried natural fermentation a few ways but the best one for me is to add campden first, and then ferment cool (~15C), it takes a long time. i have had perfectly nice ciders from wild ferments at room temp also though, and that will go much quicker.

Well this is definitely instilling some hope for me. It's only been sitting for a day now. I did not add any campden. I'm gonna put it in the basement and let it sit and see what happens. I'll keep an eye and sample it in maybe a few months.

So Here's one my question. I did get quite enough juice to fill the carboy. I have about 8" of head space. Could that be an issue? Should I maybe put it in i gallon jugs so that I can get rid of the head space?

Also, I've got to go look up that Pickle recipe!! Thanks for the heads up. I've done that same thing with jalapenos before. Worked Great.

Draagro said:

Well this is definitely instilling some hope for me. It's only been sitting for a day now. I did not add any campden. I'm gonna put it in the basement and let it sit and see what happens. I'll keep an eye and sample it in maybe a few months.

So Here's one my question. I did get quite enough juice to fill the carboy. I have about 8" of head space. Could that be an issue? Should I maybe put it in i gallon jugs so that I can get rid of the head space?

Also, I've got to go look up that Pickle recipe!! Thanks for the heads up. I've done that same thing with jalapenos before. Worked Great.

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Venturing a bit off the map with the pickle talk, here's the recipe I use.
http://chowhound.chow.com/topics/805067

Do NOT use pickling spice like McCormicks or really any. I found the taste to be horrifying. You may wish to add some tannins in whatever form you choose to keep the pickles firm. I made super strong tea and squeezed the bag to get ultra tannin and put a bit of that in, which seemed to help. Current batch uses bay leaves as i'm told they have tannins in them.

I think it would be interesting to combine the cider with the pickles and make naturally fermented pickles / cider all in one. Maybe it would vinegarify itself right in the bucket.

You don't need to leave it exposed to the air for any great length of time. There's so much bacteria on everything in the world that nature will innoculate your pickles by itself. Sometimes I have trouble getting the fermentation to start so I just slice a cucumber lengthwise to expose the innards to the juice which introduces a little fast food buffet for the bacteria. They seem to be quite smitten with that.

Draagro said:

So Here's one my question. I did get quite enough juice to fill the carboy. I have about 8" of head space. Could that be an issue? Should I maybe put it in i gallon jugs so that I can get rid of the head space?

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this is easy, and important! for primary fermentation it's fine, provides oxygen, and any excess oxygen is pushed out by the large amount of co2 generated. if you then leave it for a while in that same vessel after it finishes fermenting, again it's fine because there is no oxygen. but if you transfer into another vessel and leave headspace after it has finished fermenting, that's asking for trouble. then you want to rack to smaller vessels and fill to the top

dinnerstick said:

this is easy, and important! for primary fermentation it's fine, provides oxygen, and any excess oxygen is pushed out by the large amount of co2 generated. if you then leave it for a while in that same vessel after it finishes fermenting, again it's fine because there is no oxygen. but if you transfer into another vessel and leave headspace after it has finished fermenting, that's asking for trouble. then you want to rack to smaller vessels and fill to the top

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Thank you. that was my thought, but was the confirmation that I was looking for.