Having issues with amber ales and lack of caramel flavor..

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eluterio

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Need advice trying to figure out how to increase caramel flavor in my amber's. Ive brewed several amber's in recent months and discovered with each batch and increase of crystal malts I am still not getting the caramel flavor im searching for. Ive went from 8.0 oz to 1.5 lbs to now 1 lbs 12oz and still lacking in caramel flavor. Last batch was at 16% of grain bill. Am i on the right path to achieve caramel flavor and increase to 20% to 25% crystal malt? ive been using crystal 60.

also each one ended up with high alcohol and dryer finish. last batch og 1.047 fg 1.012. not sure how to balance alcohol with malt characters.
 
15% crystal malt should give you a very rich and prominent caramel flavor.

Have you tried "layering" the crystal malt, by using a couple of different types? For example, 10% crystal 40L and 5% crystal 80L would make a nice deep caramel flavor in most beers.

If you have a high alcohol flavor in a lower ABV beer, it sounds like fermentation temperature issues (fermentation temperature too high). That could affect the flavor of the beer, and make a difference in getting the flavors you're looking for.

Have you tried a tried-and-true amber recipe? It could be that even with a lot of caramel/crystal malt that the recipe isn't good for what you're looking for.
 
Yooper said:
15% crystal malt should give you a very rich and prominent caramel flavor.

Have you tried "layering" the crystal malt, by using a couple of different types? For example, 10% crystal 40L and 5% crystal 80L would make a nice deep caramel flavor in most beers.

If you have a high alcohol flavor in a lower ABV beer, it sounds like fermentation temperature issues (fermentation temperature too high). That could affect the flavor of the beer, and make a difference in getting the flavors you're looking for.

Have you tried a tried-and-true amber recipe? It could be that even with a lot of caramel/crystal malt that the recipe isn't good for what you're looking for.
Click to expand...

Another issue if OP is doing AG that could be is mash temp - if you are too low you might be drying the beer out and not having enough residual sweetness for the caramel flavour to build on.
 
Take a look at this recipe: Caramel Amber Ale

I made this beer a few weeks ago and it is truly marvelous. The keg is almost empty. Probably one of the best ambers I've ever had. Rich and smooth caramel flavor, yet dry finish, teasing you to drink more. The key here lies in making the caramel syrup, which is actually quite easy to make. It took me a second time after I went too far (too dark) on the first syrup trial. You'll need some DAP, which you may already have or get from your LHBS. Do NOT use the yeast nutrient stuff which has both DAP AND UREA in it, though.

The only change I made was using 1.5 lb. of C60 plus 0.25 lb. of C120 instead of the recipe's 1.5 lb of C80, which I did not have on hand. The layering of crystals is an important facet, like Yooper already said. I'm going to brew it again, with 3 crystals this time, most likely C40, C80, and C120.

Oh, my notes say I was a little low on the mash temps with 149->148 instead of 150. I'll aim for 150 next time.
Mashed for 75' not 60' (2.75 gal)
Sparged 3 times with 5.0 gal (2+2+1)
1.5 tsp of Gypsum and 1/2 tsp of lactic acid were added to my sparge water. YMMV depending on your water. Ours is really soft with low sulphates.
 
If the water is too mineralized and/or alkaline, that could easily 'muddy' the beer flavors and make it difficult to taste them. What do you know of your water quality?
 
Yooper said:
15% crystal malt should give you a very rich and prominent caramel flavor.

Have you tried "layering" the crystal malt, by using a couple of different types? For example, 10% crystal 40L and 5% crystal 80L would make a nice deep caramel flavor in most beers.

If you have a high alcohol flavor in a lower ABV beer, it sounds like fermentation temperature issues (fermentation temperature too high). That could affect the flavor of the beer, and make a difference in getting the flavors you're looking for.

Have you tried a tried-and-true amber recipe? It could be that even with a lot of caramel/crystal malt that the recipe isn't good for what you're looking for.
Click to expand...

I haven't tried layering crystal yet but have noticed it in a few recipes. I think ill try this on my next one thanks.

I ferment at or around 65 degrees. I might pitch at a higher temp like 75 or just about the yeast tolerance but within 24 hours its down to 65 or 68 depending on my attempt. To clarify I started at 68 and lowered it to 65 over 4 different batches.

i haven't tried a true amber clone but a local brewery has an amber that has a rich malt taste with caramel flavor thats what im after.

Tanks yooper for input
 
mattd2 said:
Another issue if OP is doing AG that could be is mash temp - if you are too low you might be drying the beer out and not having enough residual sweetness for the caramel flavour to build on.
Click to expand...

i understand ill keep further notes on mash temp it is all grain.
 
IslandLizard said:
Take a look at this recipe: Caramel Amber Ale

I made this beer a few weeks ago and it is truly marvelous. The keg is almost empty. Probably one of the best ambers I've ever had. Rich and smooth caramel flavor, yet dry finish, teasing you to drink more. The key here lies in making the caramel syrup, which is actually quite easy to make. It took me a second time after I went too far (too dark) on the first syrup trial. You'll need some DAP, which you may already have or get from your LHBS. Do NOT use the yeast nutrient stuff which has both DAP AND UREA in it, though.

The only change I made was using 1.5 lb. of C60 plus 0.25 lb. of C120 instead of the recipe's 1.5 lb of C80, which I did not have on hand. The layering of crystals is an important facet, like Yooper already said. I'm going to brew it again, with 3 crystals this time, most likely C40, C80, and C120.

Oh, my noted say I was a little low on the mash temps with 149->148 instead of 150. I'll aim for 150 next time.
Mashed for 75' not 60' (2.75 gal)
Sparged 3 times with 5.0 gal (2+2+1)
1.5 tsp of Gypsum and 1/2 tsp of lactic acid were added to my sparge water. YMMV depending on your water. Ours is really soft with low sulphates.
Click to expand...


thanks all good advice ill be looking at what you have and try it love brewing beer and it being football season i love drinking it.
 
mabrungard said:
If the water is too mineralized and/or alkaline, that could easily 'muddy' the beer flavors and make it difficult to taste them. What do you know of your water quality?
Click to expand...

i use strictly use RO water learned that my water alkaline the hard way and RO is just around the corner. 2.50 for ten gallons is cheap in my eyes.
 
I usually use 20, 40, and 60 in my ambers. It varies but usually three kinds. And I mash VERY high...155 is the bottom for me. You can thin it out with sugars later if you don't like fuller beers. I'll be doing a double amber in a few weeks and post the recipe if it comes out like I think it will.
 
Yooper said:
What kind of additions do you use for the water?
Click to expand...

Yooper none yet. I just keep it simple and for the most part I've had good results with a blonde, weizen, apa, and brown ale but he elusive caramel flavor in an amber ive yet to achieve. Im brewing a apa this weekend for comps next month but I'll be doing another amber in a few weeks.

You think adding minerals would help with caramel flavor?
 
eluterio said:
Yooper none yet. I just keep it simple and for the most part I've had good results with a blonde, weizen, apa, and brown ale but he elusive caramel flavor in an amber ive yet to achieve. Im brewing a apa this weekend for comps next month but I'll be doing another amber in a few weeks.

You think adding minerals would help with caramel flavor?
Click to expand...

If you're using RO water, you really should add some minerals of the right kind and proportions to bring out the best for each style. Martin's site has good info on what to add and how much.

For instance, your APA's (and IPA's) hop perception will benefit from some gypsum, and maybe a pinch of magnesium (epsom salt).

Another thing I can think of for your ambers, what brand of crystal are you using and are they fresh?
 
IslandLizard said:
If you're using RO water, you really should add some minerals of the right kind and proportions to bring out the best for each style. Martin's site has good info on what to add and how much.

For instance, your APA's (and IPA's) hop perception will benefit from some gypsum, and maybe a pinch of magnesium (epsom salt).

Another thing I can think of for your ambers, what brand of crystal are you using and are they fresh?
Click to expand...

Martin's site?? You have a web address for this I would love to look into it.

As for my grains I get them at the lhbs and I believe they are grambrinus malt grains but could be briess not 100 % sure. I would assume they are fresh the shop owner doesnt let things sit around for very long.
 
Calichusetts said:
Adding a gram or two of Calcium Chloride would help bring out the malt flavor
Click to expand...

More like 5 grams of caCl2 per 5 gallons of water used would be better. But using a spreadsheet/calculator is best to actually "see" the amounts.

I wouldn't add magnesium salts to most beers, as malt has plenty of magnesium and adding it is usually only done to enhance certain beers, but adding calcium chloride is really important when using RO water.
 
I made an irish red and a Nugget Nectar clone, both recipes from these forums. Both of these have what I would call noticeable caramel flavor to them. It's not like eating caramel candies but it's there, blended with the other malts to make a tasty grain bill.

Irish Red:
Marris Otter - 70%
Vienna - 23.5%
Roasted Barley - 4.25%
Crystal 120L - 2.5%

Nugget Nectar:
Vienna - 79%
Munich Light - 10.5%
Pilsner - 10.5%

If you want something sweet caramel candy like then you might want to look into the Vanilla Caramel Cream Ale.

As others have stated though, you may just need some water adjustments, or try using some store bought spring water for one or two batches and see if you detect any difference.
 

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