How much elderflower in ordinary bitter recipe

Hi all,

It's elderflower season here in England, so I want to pick some, dry it, and throw some into a little experimental 2.5 gallon batch of ordinary bitter. I want a nice, clean summer ale with a lovely floral fragrance.

How much dried elderflower should I use? I want a definite floral elderflower note, but needless to say I don't want it tasting like chanel no5. I plan to use it at flameout, but could dry "hop" with it as well, maybe.

Clearly, if you have used the ingredient before, then your feedback would be like gold-dust, but I would welcome educated guesses. As ever, other feedback on the recipe is welcome. Thanks in advance!

--- RECIPE ---

Batch Size (fermenter): 10.00 l
Estimated OG: 1.037 SG
Estimated FG: 1.009
Estimated Color: 5.0 SRM
Estimated IBU: 33.9 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %

1.50 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) 91.5 %
0.10 kg Caramel Wheat Malt (50.0 SRM) 6.1 %
0.04 kg Dememera Sugar (2.0 SRM) 2.4 %

23.00 g (0.8oz) East Kent Goldings [5.00 %] - First Wort Hop 28.8 IBUs
25.00 g (0.9oz) Fuggle [4.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min 5.1 IBUs

1.0 pkg S-04 Yeast

Mash at 67C (152F) for 60 minutes, mash out at 76C (168F)
60 minute boil

Educated guess from using other flowers, id say 50-100g dried flowers for 2.5 gallons at flame out.

I'd create a simple syrup (sugar 2p : water 1p) boil it, bring it to 65c then ad fresh flowers to taste and use it as a priming liquid. The syrup keeps really well due to the low temperature pasturisation in a bottle or mason jar and keeps the subtle aroma's due to the low temperature. You can create flowerless simple syrup to dillute the flower syrup and test for taste before priming.

Simply dried elderflower may create cross contamination with native elderflower yeast . As demonstrated with elderflower wine. The drying is prob also hard. Though using this yeast to ferment your beer is another way to go.

Fresh flowers give a tangerines, lemon floral aroma and taste. Try the Ikea syrup elderflower syrup as a second grade benchmark.

Don't forget to (mesh)strain the syrup

Thanks both. I really like the sugar syrup plan, although do you think that 65c will kill the natural yeasts? I was planning the flame-out addition to guarantee yeast death.

Yeah it will, you can look up low temperature pasteurization online for more details.

Thanks Vincent. I did think after posting the question that it was a fairly easy thing to google ^_^.

I recently did a simple summer wheat ale with elderflower. I'm afraid it didn't turn out as well as I had hoped.

I used the elderflower syrup that IKEA sells for making up cordial. That smells pretty nice but i then decided i better sterilise it and so did 10 minutes in a pressure cooker and added the syrup toward the end of primary fermentation. I added a whole bottle but i think the high heat treatment severely diminished the floral element of it and by the end it was difficult to discern any elderflower in it. I think I might just add at knockout next time.

I'm afraid the local elderflowers here which i think are a Mexican species and which look almost identical to the English ones if only a bit tougher have none of the lovely floral character of the UK ones, hence the syrup. I recommend going with the flowers if you can.

Thanks for the heads-up David!

Update - I brewed this today. Went for an early morning run and picked some elderflowers on the way. It was a lovely sunny morning, but with a gentle cooling breeze. They elderflowers smelled super-sweet, kind of citrusy (orange) and floral. I threw a conservative 25g of flowers into the wort at the end of the boil. There is a modest elderflower undertone to the aroma, but nothing overpowering. The brew went smoothly with no nasty surprises, although I am a couple of points down on my OG (no worries). I still might pick some more to add to the priming syrup as Vincent suggested.

Batch Size (fermenter): 10.00 l
Estimated OG: 1.036 SG (actual 1.034)
Estimated Color: 5.8 SRM
Estimated IBU: 31.2 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 % (actual 65%)
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

1.50 kg Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) - 90.9 %
0.15 kg Caramel Wheat Malt (50.0 SRM) - 9.1 %

18.00 g East Kent Goldings [6.00 %] - First Wort Hop (27.1 IBUs)
20.00 g Fuggle [4.50 %] - 5.0 min (4.1 IBUs)
Pinch of Irish Moss
25.00 g Fresh Elderflowers - Flameout

SafAle English Ale Yeast (S-04) Yeast

Mashed at about 65C (149F) for 60 minutes
Mashout at 75C (167F) for 15 minutes

Quick update for posterity. I used 25g (0.9oz) fresh elderflower at flameout, and about the same amount in the priming syrup for bottling, in a 10l (2.5 US gallons) batch. The beer itself is a very nice ordinary bitter with a lovely balance. Whilst the floral aroma is present, it is muted. I would double the amount next time. Thanks for the help, everyone!

Awesome !

I'm about to make som elderflower syrup for lemonade. Some of the syrup will go in a blonde ale at peak of fermentation.

How to kill the wild yeast and bacteria in the syrup without loosing to much of the flavour?

frankktankk said:

I'm about to make som elderflower syrup for lemonade. Some of the syrup will go in a blonde ale at peak of fermentation.

How to kill the wild yeast and bacteria in the syrup without loosing to much of the flavour?

Click to expand...

I used the process VincentxH described on the first page of this thread. Seemed to do the job.

Having had another of these, on reflection I think the quantity of elderflower was about right. I noticed a much more pronounced elderflower aroma.

In terms of the broader recipe, next time I would probably just add more base malt to increase the ABV but reduce the bitterness ratio, as the sweet floral aroma is slightly at odds with the bitter flavour. The wheat malt is great for giving the beer body at this low ABV.