OP
OP
ya it does look odd. but its almost the same size as the Stout tank
Squam Lakes Brewery with Pictures
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ScubaSteve
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Wow...I doubt that came from Blichmann...lol! FWIW, you might be onto something....with multiple larg(er) fermenters, you can be more flexible. Of course, a giant fermenter/kettle would allow you to really get the flagship beer into every store in the state.
That is pretty cool.
Cheers!
Cheers!
OP
OP
Actually they did come from Blichmann. Its a new product and we are probably the first to get them.
OP
OP
Ok I need some ideas on how to monitor the temperature in this new conical.
Would check out the networked monitor powered by an arduino. Great little writeup over at http://fuzzelogicbrewing.blogspot.com/2013/02/arduino-real-time-fermentation.html. Very handy.
OP
OP
Thanks daksin will check it out
OP
OP
4 more to fill up and then we start bottling/kegging
OP
OP
Just ordered a CDN digital thermomenter from BobbyM Its the type you stick the probe on the side of the Conical. I will give it a try before drilling a hole in these nice conicals.
I have the same one. I bought it from Amazon but bought my stainless parts from Bobby. I use mine in a 40-plate heat exchanger.
kombat
Well-Known Member
Just found this thread. Amazing!
One question I have: Earlier on, you mentioned you were simply dumping your spent grains in your backyard (I'm assuming you have a large property). Is that still the case, or have you devised another way of getting rid of them? Is it a problem hauling them out to the (pile? pit? ditch?) in the winter? Do you just use a simple wheelbarrow for this?
One question I have: Earlier on, you mentioned you were simply dumping your spent grains in your backyard (I'm assuming you have a large property). Is that still the case, or have you devised another way of getting rid of them? Is it a problem hauling them out to the (pile? pit? ditch?) in the winter? Do you just use a simple wheelbarrow for this?
OP
OP
Kombat
We have developed a relationship with a local farmer who takes the spent grain and feeds it to his cattle. I tried to compost it but a huge pile of spent grain just would not break down. The only good way would be to spread it like manure and plow it in.
The best part of the deal is i get several loads of good manure to use in our vegetable garden
We have developed a relationship with a local farmer who takes the spent grain and feeds it to his cattle. I tried to compost it but a huge pile of spent grain just would not break down. The only good way would be to spread it like manure and plow it in.
The best part of the deal is i get several loads of good manure to use in our vegetable garden
OP
OP
General up date
We are being shipped our 3bbl BK and MT and should have them next week. will post pictures when they come in.
We are being shipped our 3bbl BK and MT and should have them next week. will post pictures when they come in.
Awesome work gentlemen. I love the thread and I wish you great luck and continued success.
OP
OP
owentp
The new brew equipment is all Stainless Steal so its all food grade.
If you are asking about the Rubbermaid barrels they are all food grade also
The new brew equipment is all Stainless Steal so its all food grade.
If you are asking about the Rubbermaid barrels they are all food grade also
tommyguner03
Well-Known Member
awesome set up!! jealous as heck!! great work guys.. if and when i head out east I'll have to look out for your brew on the market
OP
OP
more pictures to come
3bbl Stout BK and MT hope to run first batch this week
3bbl Stout BK and MT hope to run first batch this week
Very nice! I know that early on, you (or your son) talking about this venture not being more profitable than the old job. Has that changed at this point?
oneandahalfshepherds
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Greetings and good luck,
Josh from Nashua NH
Josh from Nashua NH
I have adopted your Brute MLT idea. Using the pex tubing as my false bottom also. How do you attach your element to the other Brute for your HLT? Do you use a HERMS to keep your mash temp within range?
OP
OP
Owentp
We used a ss 1 bbl Blichmann brew kettle with 2 elements and two Brutes. We brewed using the standard simple method. That is we used one Brute as a HLT and one Brute as a MT using only the BK to make Hot water and brewing. Using the Burte we found very little mash temp drop during the one hour mash. Even today using a 3 bbl system we use this simple method. I know you see lots of HERMS systems but if your grain bed is over 50 lbs it holds its temp very well and I am a firm believer in KISS
OP
OP
We did not use an element in the Brute. just elements in the SS brew kettle.
OP
OP
yes that is how we do it and I would say that it is the most common way to brew. Even though you see lots of fancy stuff on this site the basic and easiest way is the way we do it. We heat the water hotter than what is required and then use cold water to drop the temp for mashing in and for sparging.
Did you insulate the MT at all? How much temp loss would you see? Did you open the top to stir? I live this method. Currently i am going to go w/the no sparge (all water) in the brute mt & recirculate through a HERMS coil in my bk.
OP
OP
If you have a small grain bed like 10 to 15 lbs then maybe you want to use an insulated MT. The cooler is what most people use for the MT and that is how we started out. But as i said before once you get a large mass of grains it is less important.
gregfreemyer
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I just came across this thread and it is fantastic for anyone thinking of doing a 1 barrel nano. My sincere thanks for posting all the great info you did. I'm fantasizing about doing my own one barrel nano and have done some research.
I do have a few questions I didn't see answered. Feel free to only answer the easy ones!
- are there small distributors that are willing to take on a nano for distribution? If not, maybe creating a niche distributor is the best business plan of all, especially in 3-tier only states.
- Now that you have been doing this for a few years, have you ever started
doing kegs? It seems like an easier way to package. I know you expressed concerns about handling / cleaning / etc. Is it really so bad that hand bottling is the way to go.
- Now that you have replaced all your 1 BBL BK, MT, HLT system with a 3 BBL system have you considered taking the old 1 BBL system and trying to turn it
into a 1 BBL BIAB system. You wouldn't need the MT or HLT, just the 55-gallon blichmann. You would need to get a BIAB bag and build a pulley/winch system to lift it, but that seems well within your skills (or your welder friends skills)
If you don't know BIAB, here's the basic steps for a barrel recipe I put together (tested at 5 gallons only, so this may overflow the kettle!):
- add 48 gallons water to the BK
- heat to strike temp, remove heat
- insert the (large) biab bag
- add the grains (ground finer than a normal grind for a MT) - the BK will be almost 100% full at this point
- mash (60-90 minutes)
- add heat making sure the bag doesn't touch the heating elements (false bottom to raise bag?)
- After mash, add heat and raise temp to 170 for mash out, give the grains a last vigorous swirl to dissolve any remaining sugars attached to the outside of the grains
- pull the bag and let it drip - if you have a winch it can just sit above the kettle dripping while you bring the wort to a boil - a squeeze is normal, but i suspect a long drip would work just as well. And I don't know how to squeeze a bag with 60+ lbs of grains and absorbed water.
- after pulling the grains, you should have 45 gallons or so left
- continue heating until boil achieved
- do your normal boil process
- about 41 gallons at the end of the boil
- chill to ambient
- should be about 39.5 gallons now
You will lose a little more during fermenting, etc. but you should get a barrel of finished beer easy. A bigger beer with more grains won't reduce your final beer volume too much, so I think you can brew even a barrel of a big beer in a 55-gallon kettle.
Supposedly you can get efficiencies with biab comparable to the traditional approach. And you don't have to spend time doing a separate sparge, and a stuck sparge never happens because of how big the bag is (ie. huge).
The only negative I see is having to heat so much mash water. It seems much easier to work with. You still need a pump to pull the post-boil wort out and chill it, but any simple pump will work.
Here's a picture of a nice 10-gallon setup:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/my-80-20-biab-stand-pump-hoist-404898/
Notice how he has the winch swivel to the side after drip draining. Then he can just lower the bag to the ground and unhook it.
The 55-gallon blickmann is 27 inches tall, so if you have it near ground level, you should be able to build a winch that is no more that 10ft tall I'm guessing. I assume you can go up 10 ft in the barn.
- Have you considered using plastic 55 gallon food safe drums as
fermenters? If not for beers that need high clarity, what about for
wheat beers?
You can get them used on ebay for really cheap.
For instance these are $40 each and just a short drive from me.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PLASTIC-Rai...475?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43c7621023
I know used may have off-flavors in them, but you can buy food safe disposable drum liners pretty cheap. A drum liner is basically just a big plastic trash bag. I found at least one source of oxygen impermeable drum liners. I suspect a drum liner should always be used, but a oxygen impermeable one may be over kill and too expensive. The other nice thing about a drum liner is it makes clean-up a snap. Just pull it out and throw it away.
With fermenters that cheap, you could afford to have a bunch a brew everyday instead of every 3rd day or so.
- Has anyone used a dudadiesel plate chiller? The price looks great. This one (B3-36A 60) can cool 50 gallons in 10 minutes and it is only $275: It uses 19 gallons of tap water to cool 10 gallons of wort, so about 70 gallons of tap water to cool a barrel of wort.
http://www.dudadiesel.com/choose_item.php?id=HX3660
They say any of their chillers can be used to chill wort:
http://www.dudadiesel.com/search.php?query=+beer++wort++chiller&i=beerchillers
- Why do most breweries not brew every day. Is it just that the fermenters cost too much?
- Is the fermentation room still working for you, or are having to actively cool your 3bbl fermenters?
- Do you cold crash your beer to maintain consistency? If so, in the fermenters, or after you have the beer in bottles.
Sorry for all the questions, but thinking about doing a nano is a fascinating process with way more questions than answers.
I do have a few questions I didn't see answered. Feel free to only answer the easy ones!
- are there small distributors that are willing to take on a nano for distribution? If not, maybe creating a niche distributor is the best business plan of all, especially in 3-tier only states.
- Now that you have been doing this for a few years, have you ever started
doing kegs? It seems like an easier way to package. I know you expressed concerns about handling / cleaning / etc. Is it really so bad that hand bottling is the way to go.
- Now that you have replaced all your 1 BBL BK, MT, HLT system with a 3 BBL system have you considered taking the old 1 BBL system and trying to turn it
into a 1 BBL BIAB system. You wouldn't need the MT or HLT, just the 55-gallon blichmann. You would need to get a BIAB bag and build a pulley/winch system to lift it, but that seems well within your skills (or your welder friends skills)
If you don't know BIAB, here's the basic steps for a barrel recipe I put together (tested at 5 gallons only, so this may overflow the kettle!):
- add 48 gallons water to the BK
- heat to strike temp, remove heat
- insert the (large) biab bag
- add the grains (ground finer than a normal grind for a MT) - the BK will be almost 100% full at this point
- mash (60-90 minutes)
- add heat making sure the bag doesn't touch the heating elements (false bottom to raise bag?)
- After mash, add heat and raise temp to 170 for mash out, give the grains a last vigorous swirl to dissolve any remaining sugars attached to the outside of the grains
- pull the bag and let it drip - if you have a winch it can just sit above the kettle dripping while you bring the wort to a boil - a squeeze is normal, but i suspect a long drip would work just as well. And I don't know how to squeeze a bag with 60+ lbs of grains and absorbed water.
- after pulling the grains, you should have 45 gallons or so left
- continue heating until boil achieved
- do your normal boil process
- about 41 gallons at the end of the boil
- chill to ambient
- should be about 39.5 gallons now
You will lose a little more during fermenting, etc. but you should get a barrel of finished beer easy. A bigger beer with more grains won't reduce your final beer volume too much, so I think you can brew even a barrel of a big beer in a 55-gallon kettle.
Supposedly you can get efficiencies with biab comparable to the traditional approach. And you don't have to spend time doing a separate sparge, and a stuck sparge never happens because of how big the bag is (ie. huge).
The only negative I see is having to heat so much mash water. It seems much easier to work with. You still need a pump to pull the post-boil wort out and chill it, but any simple pump will work.
Here's a picture of a nice 10-gallon setup:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/my-80-20-biab-stand-pump-hoist-404898/
Notice how he has the winch swivel to the side after drip draining. Then he can just lower the bag to the ground and unhook it.
The 55-gallon blickmann is 27 inches tall, so if you have it near ground level, you should be able to build a winch that is no more that 10ft tall I'm guessing. I assume you can go up 10 ft in the barn.
- Have you considered using plastic 55 gallon food safe drums as
fermenters? If not for beers that need high clarity, what about for
wheat beers?
You can get them used on ebay for really cheap.
For instance these are $40 each and just a short drive from me.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PLASTIC-Rai...475?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43c7621023
I know used may have off-flavors in them, but you can buy food safe disposable drum liners pretty cheap. A drum liner is basically just a big plastic trash bag. I found at least one source of oxygen impermeable drum liners. I suspect a drum liner should always be used, but a oxygen impermeable one may be over kill and too expensive. The other nice thing about a drum liner is it makes clean-up a snap. Just pull it out and throw it away.
With fermenters that cheap, you could afford to have a bunch a brew everyday instead of every 3rd day or so.
- Has anyone used a dudadiesel plate chiller? The price looks great. This one (B3-36A 60) can cool 50 gallons in 10 minutes and it is only $275: It uses 19 gallons of tap water to cool 10 gallons of wort, so about 70 gallons of tap water to cool a barrel of wort.
http://www.dudadiesel.com/choose_item.php?id=HX3660
They say any of their chillers can be used to chill wort:
http://www.dudadiesel.com/search.php?query=+beer++wort++chiller&i=beerchillers
- Why do most breweries not brew every day. Is it just that the fermenters cost too much?
- Is the fermentation room still working for you, or are having to actively cool your 3bbl fermenters?
- Do you cold crash your beer to maintain consistency? If so, in the fermenters, or after you have the beer in bottles.
Sorry for all the questions, but thinking about doing a nano is a fascinating process with way more questions than answers.
OP
OP
Gregfreemyer
Well first of all good luck with your own Nano
Currently we self Distribute but a good small one might be a good thing
Yes we do some Kegs from time to time.
We sold the old 1 bbl system. Your BIAG system should work
Yes we considered using plastic fermentors but you always have the risk of a scratch and then you can get an infection. SS is the best way. If you dont have the cash then taking a chance with plastic is fine.
Barrels with a liner are interesting but you would have to pump out of the top and you have no way to get rid of the yeast in the bottom like a conical
Why do most breweries not brew every day. Is it just that the fermenters cost too much?
Yes to some extent. In addition you have a great deal of cleaning after every brew day.
We ferment for 3 weeks per batch. If youre a BCM type brewery then fast fermentation is required but for many beers you need to give it some time in the fermentors.
Another way to think of it is if you want to brew 5 bbls/week you can do it once each day or just get a 5bbl system and brew once per week.
- Is the fermentation room still working for you, or are having to actively cool your 3bbl fermenters?
While its not a perfect set up we are sing the same fermentation room and we do not cool down the room. We rely on selecting the correct yeast for our set up. (temp controlled fermentors would be better)
We do not cold crash
Well first of all good luck with your own Nano
Currently we self Distribute but a good small one might be a good thing
Yes we do some Kegs from time to time.
We sold the old 1 bbl system. Your BIAG system should work
Yes we considered using plastic fermentors but you always have the risk of a scratch and then you can get an infection. SS is the best way. If you dont have the cash then taking a chance with plastic is fine.
Barrels with a liner are interesting but you would have to pump out of the top and you have no way to get rid of the yeast in the bottom like a conical
Why do most breweries not brew every day. Is it just that the fermenters cost too much?
Yes to some extent. In addition you have a great deal of cleaning after every brew day.
We ferment for 3 weeks per batch. If youre a BCM type brewery then fast fermentation is required but for many beers you need to give it some time in the fermentors.
Another way to think of it is if you want to brew 5 bbls/week you can do it once each day or just get a 5bbl system and brew once per week.
- Is the fermentation room still working for you, or are having to actively cool your 3bbl fermenters?
While its not a perfect set up we are sing the same fermentation room and we do not cool down the room. We rely on selecting the correct yeast for our set up. (temp controlled fermentors would be better)
We do not cold crash
gregfreemyer
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Sep 22, 2012
- Messages
- 119
- Reaction score
- 9
Thanks for all the answers.
I will open up a new thread about the plastic drums. There is lots of food industry equipment designed to work with drums, so I'm assuming we can find a pump that would work well. ie. remove one of the small diameter port covers and insert a pump from the top and pump out the beer leaving the yeast cake behind. When done, take off the main lid, remove the liner and throw it away.
If anyone wants to follow along, here's a link to the new thread
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/using-plastic-food-drum-fermentation-nano-brewery-470531/
Greg
