I completely underestimated role of oxygen

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

jfowler1

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2009
Messages
537
Reaction score
60
About 2 months ago, I decided to purchase the oxygen kit from Williams Brewing. I have been brewing for a little over two years, and had been really happy with how my process was coming along, and in general, happy with my results.

I pay close attention to sanitization, and I am obsessed with digital temperature control and pitching rates. The only hole in the program was a lack of proper oxygenation; but how much of a difference could it really make? I never had problems with long lag times, or under attenuated beer, so I figured the "splashing wort around in the carboy" method I was using was fine. More than anything else, curiosity propted my purchase.

Well, I just bottled my Dry Stout on Saturday (2nd time brewing the same recipe). It was the first beer to test the merits of 60 seconds of pure oxygen through a 2 micron stone, as suggested in the Jamil/White Yeast book. Four weeks after pitching, I bottled up two cases, and siphoned a bit extra into a pint glass for sampling.

I found myself sitting in my garage; completely shocked. It was BY FAR my best beer to date. Usually I would have a sample on bottling day, and think, "a little green", or "it'll be fine once a couple flavors meld", but this stout was unlike any of my other 25-30 batches. It tasted perfect, right out of the carboy. I wish I had left more behind to sample. This batch crossed the line between BEER and HOMEBREW. This was a BEER. I am even thinking about sending a few bottles into the NHC, and seeing if a a judging panel agrees.

I just wanted to share my findings because the importance of oxygen in a healthy fermentation can not be overstated. The results spoke for themselves.

Has anyone had a similar Eureka! moment from a process change?

Joe
 
Has anyone had a similar Eureka! moment from a process change?

Joe

Yes, fermentation is everything.

Figuring out that you can make a beer that tastes good a few weeks after you pitch the yeast by properly managing fermentation is the Eureka moment that separates the top homebrewers from the rest, IMO.

Not that great beer isn't made occasionally by RDWHAHB methods but you are figuring out how to make it consistently.
 
I need to look into some better oxygen management. Right now I only shake the buckets up after sealing them. I do let the wort splash while draining and stir vigorously in the brewpot while chilling.

I have been hit by a 1.020 bug on my last couple brews that I think may have partly to do with not enough oxygen. And my beers have not been very great until 6-8 weeks after brewing. I would love to get that number down to 4 weeks. It would really help my pipeline.
 
Has anyone had a similar Eureka! moment from a process change?

Yeah, going from splashing & aerating using the small plastic diffuser at the end of the hose to using a diffusion stone and oxygen has made a big difference in the quality of my beer.

The other process change that I made and noticed a difference with was using washed yeast (along with oxygen). Normally when I have used new smack pack + starter I get a fairly strong and rapid fermentation. Using successive generations of washed yeast has yielded a much smoother and longer fermentation period and (I feel) better tasting beer for the most part.
 
Has anyone had a similar Eureka! moment from a process change?

Yeah, going from splashing & aerating using the small plastic diffuser at the end of the hose to using a diffusion stone and oxygen has made a big difference in the quality of my beer.

The other process change that I made and noticed a difference with was using washed yeast (along with oxygen). Normally when I have used new smack pack + starter I get a fairly strong and rapid fermentation. Using successive generations of washed yeast has yielded a much smoother and longer fermentation period and (I feel) better tasting beer for the most part.

Putting a False Bottom in my kettle. Was shocked to see how very little trub ended up in my fermenter. At first I thought something was wrong it was such a dramatic difference.
 
Yes, fermentation is everything.

Figuring out that you can make a beer that tastes good a few weeks after you pitch the yeast by properly managing fermentation is the Eureka moment that separates the top homebrewers from the rest, IMO.

Not that great beer isn't made occasionally by RDWHAHB methods but you are figuring out how to make it consistently.

+1

Proper fermentation means everything in brewing. Adding pure O2 just ramps it up a notch for the yeast to begin their jobs.
 
Putting a False Bottom in my kettle. Was shocked to see how very little trub ended up in my fermenter. At first I thought something was wrong it was such a dramatic difference.

which? how? what? where?

i'm getting a keggle this weekend. i haven't figured out dip tube/false bottom yet....
 
which? how? what? where?

i'm getting a keggle this weekend. i haven't figured out dip tube/false bottom yet....

Kettle2.jpg


Not sure that would work in a keggle but something like it would.

The hops collapse onto the top of the FB and create an incredible filter for the trub.
 
Putting a False Bottom in my kettle. Was shocked to see how very little trub ended up in my fermenter. At first I thought something was wrong it was such a dramatic difference.

A dramatic difference while staring at your fermenter on brew day, but was there an actual difference in the quality of your final product. I only ask because most of what I've read is that trub and hop debree in the fermenter doesn't matter much. I ferment the entire thing and clarity in the end is never an issue, so I'm interested to hear if you actually got a better tasting product with this change.
 
A dramatic difference while staring at your fermenter on brew day, but was there an actual difference in the quality of your final product. I only ask because most of what I've read is that trub and hop debree in the fermenter doesn't matter much. I ferment the entire thing and clarity in the end is never an issue, so I'm interested to hear if you actually got a better tasting product with this change.

I didn't realize the difference until I racked out of my bucket into a keg.

"What the hell happened to my yeast cake?!?!?!?!?"

It was about 1/4" thick and almost completely white. I was used to 1/2" to 1" thick cakes. The beer seems "cleaner" and is very clear going into the keg as well as coming out.
 
Fermentation temps for me. I am thinking about getting an O2 stone simply because it would be easier than shaking. Probably will once I get my ferm chamber put together and a couple of other odds and ends finished up.
 
Fermentation temps for me. I am thinking about getting an O2 stone simply because it would be easier than shaking. Probably will once I get my ferm chamber put together and a couple of other odds and ends finished up.

O2 stone made a big difference for me as well. Fermentation taking off within a few hours. Except for this weekend for some reason........

Aerated_Wort1.jpg


In the 2 minutes it takes to fill the bucket.
 
I only ask because most of what I've read is that trub and hop debree in the fermenter doesn't matter much. I ferment the entire thing and clarity in the end is never an issue, so I'm interested to hear if you actually got a better tasting product with this change.

Trub contains fatty acids that promote staleing and oxydation of the finished beer. Some cold break is actually good for fermentation, but try to remove most of hot break you can.
Of course your mileage may vary
 
Reading this thread just made me really happy. My oxygen system just arrived from Williams last week. I can't wait to make my first properly oxygenated batch. :rockin:
 
To the OP, it sounds like I'm at about the same point in my brew journey as you and considering an oxygenation system for one of my next upgrades. I realize you just posted this yesterday but I'd be interested to hear if your oxygen improvement findings continue with future batches; please keep us posted (and you too BmillaTheBrewzilla now that you have one too!)
 
To the OP, it sounds like I'm at about the same point in my brew journey as you and considering an oxygenation system for one of my next upgrades. I realize you just posted this yesterday but I'd be interested to hear if your oxygen improvement findings continue with future batches; please keep us posted (and you too BmillaTheBrewzilla now that you have one too!)

+1 The OP really has me rethinking my stirring/splashing procedures and wondering how much better my results might be with pure O2.
 
I will be following up for sure. Sadly, my next batch is still some time away. I will be making a Cal Common (first brew of that style) and I havn't even ordered the yeast yet. I won't have an original sample to compare it against (as I did with my Stout) but I'll pick up a 6-pack of Anchor Steam for comparison's sake. The next true test will be the Janet's Brown. It has been my unicorn; I've brewed it about 4 times, and just can't seem to get it right. In fact, everytime I experienced some weird brewing disaster, it was on a batch of Janet's Brown. I've had a 3 hour battle with a stuck sparge on one batch, another batch sat in the carboy for 3 months while I moved into my new house. One had the temp probe fall off the carboy (I've since remedied this with a carboy cap thermowell but still can brag that I invented the Ameri-Belgian Brown). That one resulted in worm food. Finally I brewed one batch with hose water that had a lovely lead taste (also worm food). But the 5th time is the charm, right?

However, my original post has been sitting with me for a few days now. I have been ranting for a while on these boards about what a difference temperature control, pitching rates, and sanitation make. They make your process repeatable by eliminating variables, which is a huge asset. These things are really just common sense, and should certainly trump fancy kettles, or conical fermenters, or RIMS/HERMS for any brewer looking to make upgrades. Adding the oxygen may have just completed the perfect homebrew storm. I believe it was the missing piece.

I don't want this to sound preachy...I just want to emphasize the incredible result I experienced by changing a single variable. If you think about it, it makes complete sense. I believe all commercial breweries have a system for oxygenating their beer, but what % of homebrewers have such a system? Sure, homebrew is great because it is fresher than most things you can buy, and has a certain "pride" taste. However, if in the past, I sat down at my local brewpub, and order their stout (which is a multiple GABF Gold medal winner), it would have blown mine away. As crazy as it seems, adding oxgen, which is a given for a commercial brewery, really closed the gap between a great brew pub beer and a great homebrew.

I look forward to reporting back on my next brew.

Joe
 
Just have one (or two) question about adding O2 via a stone... Do you need to do it in the fermenter, or can you do it in the kettle, after it's been chilled, before you run it into the fermenter? I'm planning on making a couple of big brews soon, probably fermenting in kegs, or maybe using my 6 gallon carboy (unsure just yet)... If adding the O2 in the kettle is a viable option, it would eliminate any worry about the wort foaming out of the primary.

I'm giving serious thought to getting the stone setup to oxygenate my wort with even for my next batch. I'm looking to make a blonde ale next, which (I'm thinking) show more evidence of an improved oxygenation process being a solid benefit. After that, I'll be looking at brewing an old ale and English barley wine...

Second question... Would you give a higher OG brew more than 60 seconds on the stone? My old ale should be in the 1.090-1.100 range for it's OG... The barley wine is expected to be in the area of 1.120-1.125...

I probably will pick up the new yeast book, just not sure exactly when.
 
Probably most common to add it once in the fermentor, but some do it with an in-line system. Have not seen it documented as doing it in the BK, but I am sure someone, somewhere does it that way :D
 
I hope so... I was thinking of fermenting a 5 gallon batch in a 1/6 barrel Sanke keg... Unless I can get a 1/4 barrel (or two) before these batches are brewed... Of course, I'll be using a starter for the yeast, so I'll have a decent population going in... Just want to make the batches as best possible, since we're talking about a decent amount of grain being used. Over 1/2 of a sack of base malt between the two...
 
I just ordered the O2 system from Williams Brewing... I hope it arrives before my next brew day (either next Thursday, that weekend, or soon after)... Used the FedEx Ground option, so it could/should arrive before end of day Thursday, if everything lines up... It's arrival will determine which recipe I brew next. I'm planning on getting an O2 tank in the next few days (under $8 at Lowe's) to feed it... Going to be interesting testing with the setup and see how it effects my brews... :D
 
I just ordered the O2 system from Williams Brewing... I hope it arrives before my next brew day (either next Thursday, that weekend, or soon after)... Used the FedEx Ground option, so it could/should arrive before end of day Thursday, if everything lines up... It's arrival will determine which recipe I brew next. I'm planning on getting an O2 tank in the next few days (under $8 at Lowe's) to feed it... Going to be interesting testing with the setup and see how it effects my brews... :D

You didn't buy that O2 system in bulk did you!

(just a little joke for you that no one else will understand)

Awesome purchase. You will not be upset you did it. I tried my third sample (that stared this thread) Tuesday night. Awesome stuff. Maybe I'll check back in next month or so for one last update (or a comp result if I ever get around to it).

In the meantime, I'll still follow along the thread for any questions and comments.

Joe
 
Yup, full pallet load of them... :eek: I'm now their east cost hub... :rockin: [j/k]

I'll be sure to comment on any impacts I see in my own brews... I seriously want it for my higher OG brews on deck, but suspect it will have less impact on my lower OG recipes... For me "low OG" is anything under ~1.070... I have a blonde ale recipe that's next up (depending on when the O2 setup arrives) that has an OG of around 1.060... Pretty simple recipe, so not many places for off flavors to hide...

What do you think, 30 seconds for my lower OG batches?? Maybe 45 seconds for 1.070-1.085 and then 60 seconds for anything higher? I do like the cost per batch break-down on using the item... Especially if I get ~20-30 batches per cylinder of O2...
 
The Janet's Brown is worth trying for again. It is a wonderful beer, I brew it about three times a year and a lower ABV version of it a couple more times a year.

Eric
 
Do you need to do it in the fermenter, or can you do it in the kettle, after it's been chilled, before you run it into the fermenter?

That's an excellent question, which I don't know the answer to. Intuition states that you may lose some of that oxygen in the transfer, if you add it in the kettle, but I could be wrong. Even if it does happen, the real question is, how much? I have no idea. Maybe someone else could chime in; I'd like to know as well.

Second question... Would you give a higher OG brew more than 60 seconds on the stone?

According to the new yeast book, yes. They recommend at least 60 seconds at pitch and again at the 12-18 hour mark. 90 seconds at each point wouldn't be off at all. Apparently, that second shot at the 12-18 hour mark is more important than a larger saturation at pitch.
 
I brewed up a Belgian wit 8 days ago.I used my new williams 02 set up for the first time and the brew is still chugging along fermenting.I don't know if it's the 02 or the wlp 400 yeast,but my fermentations are usually done in 4 or 5 days.
 
I haven't used that yeast at all, but given that it's a low flocculater, I'm going to guess that overall fermentation will go a bit longer than with other yeasts, but be slow at the tail end. You ought to be near anticipated FG, though, if I'm at all correct in this guess.
 
Ive spent a ton of money on my brew equipment and for some reason I just have not purchased an O2 setup yet. Its always one of those oh ill get it someday type things. But after reading through this thread maybe now is the time. It seems to me for the extra 2 mins it adds to the brew day and the increased quality of beer you get it might be worth doing for sure
 
I'm putting together an inline aerator that allows me to oxygenate the wort as it's leaving my plate chiller, but before it reaches the fermenter (it will add about 2 seconds to my brew day to open and close the oxygen valve) . I had previously been using an aquarium pump, but after reading Yeast, it's clearly inadequate not only for higher gravity brews, but also many different strains of yeast.
 
The Janet's Brown is worth trying for again. It is a wonderful beer, I brew it about three times a year and a lower ABV version of it a couple more times a year.

Eric

JBA is an awesome beer. Don't sweat it- I am doing a Cal Common tomorrow, but I have an extra vial of yeast on deck for my next brew - the Janet's Brown Ale.

I am going to keep trying that recipe until I nail it.

Thanks for the encouragement,
Joe
 
You know what kills me about wanting to get an O2 kit? ......years ago, probably about 20 or so, I bout a small oxy/propane torch kit. Then I got a full size oxy/acetylene setup, and never used that small set again. It sat in the garage until we moved about four years ago. I tossed it out!! I could have used the regulator from it.

Maybe I could get in on Golddiggie's group buy? :D
 
Got my O2 setup on Saturday, far sooner than I had expected. So, I was able to use it in last night's brew... Since it was a lower OG brew (1.055) I gave it a 30-45 second hit... I'll wait for the report on how it's doing and post up... This batch is fermenting in a 1/6 Sanke keg, so I won't be able to see what's going on without removing the bung (not going to happen, most likely)...

The thing was REALLY easy to use... I'll know in 6-8 weeks how the O2 infusion impacts even a low OG brew... At least I'm fully ready for my old ale mk II and barley wine recipes now. :D
 
I think any O2 is better than no O2, but I am trying to sort out how long to run the system.

The yeast book details that you want to look to hit about 10 ppm, and in their experiements, 10 ppm was acheived with a 60 second blast through a .5 micron stone. The Williams kit I bought is a 2 micron stone. I am not sure what kind of effect that has as it relates to time.

Currently, my practice (at least as planned) is 60 sec for an ale, 75 sec for a hybrid, and 90 sec for a lager.

Has anyone seen a chart/read about diffusion rates with a 2 micron stone as compared to a .5 micron stone?

Joe
 
Brewed an amber ale the other day. OG was about 1.050. My first opportunity to use the Williams O2 kit- I hit it for about 30 seconds, as the instructions recommended 25 seconds will appropriately oxygenate five gallons.

I'm excited to see what this does to my beer. The fermentation took off pretty quick, although this may also be related to the very active starter I pitched.
 
Heard from my brew buddy earlier... Yeast is going nicely in less than 24 hours from when it was pitched in. Probably went active in less than 12 hours, but no one was around to see. The yeast I used was from a starter I made two weekends ago (around 4/8) that I then put into the fridge after it finished. I pulled it out of the fridge just before heading over to his place to brew, so it warmed up for about 5 hours before getting decanted and then the slurry pitched. The fresh smack pack that I used originally was a bit slow to start, so I'm not surprised with this batch.

I'm going to be very interested to see how the brew finishes fermenting with the pure O2 infusion. I will say that using the system from Williams Brewing couldn't be easier. Slip the provided tubing onto the want, connect the regulator to the tank, connect the other end of the tubing up to the barb, and then open until you see bubbles... Hold for XX seconds and then turn off and disconnect the tank and clean the wand... I might boil the stone/wand before using it again, to make sure it's clean/sterilized... A quick hit of StarSan before using it make sure it's safe to go into the chilled wort... Now, I have zero concerns about getting enough O2 into my wort on brew day. :rockin: :ban:
 
Good to hear a report about oxygen making such a difference to your beer. But...hasn't your homebrew been generally better than what you buy in a store even without using pure oxygen? It should have been - so maybe you did something else special, too, during your last batch that contributed to a big improvement. Did you?
 
Thanks OP for posting this. This has been on my mind a lot lately and I've been considering building an O2 system for my wort so this thread seems like perfect timing. I've been putting it to the back of the list of things to do and wasn't sure how big of a difference it would make on my beer vs the old shake and bake method I've been using.
However, when looking on their website they are asking 50 bucks plus 7 for S&H and all it is is a wand, 4' of hose, a stone, and a regulator?

Seems like you could make it yourself for about half that. So far, I've been more of a DIY brewer and like to save a few bucks when possible. I'd be curious to hear from anyone who has built their own.
 
I got the O2 setup as a gift at Christmas but haven't brewed since then. I'm set to brew this weekend and will use it for the first time. Is a bit of a pain to source those bottles, and I don't like how it seems there's no real way to measure the flow of oxygen.

Have you guys been dropping the stone to the bottom of the fermenter and then hitting it with O2? I was thinking about simply flooding the headspace with O2 and then using a mix-stir to vortex it all throughout the beer.
 
Back
Top