Made a starter...what should it look like?

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Gritsak

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Made a starter using 1 liter of water to 1/4 cup DME, per recommendation by Midwest. Activator yeast was smacked about 18hrs prior to pitching it in the starter, and was swelled up quite well.

It's been about 18hrs since i made the starter and I'm not really sure what i should be seeing. When i swirl it around, it gets cloudy with a frothy head, but once it sits for a minute it just looks like cloudy apple juice with a layer of yeast on the bottom.

I have it in my thermostat controlled fridge at 70-72 degrees.

Hopefully this is normal, as i plan to brew on Friday or Saturday.

Thanks
 
Yep, sounds all normal.

Might be too soon to crash cool and decant so I would just pitch the whole thing into the wort.
 
+1 to what Dontman said. I almost never get anything that looks like active fermentation in my starters - no krausen. The growing layer of yeast at the bottom shows that they have prospered and multiplied!
 
If I can piggy back a question to this thread, what should a starter taste like?

I have seen comments in the past both for and against tasting a starter. I chose not to do it. However, I recently had an infection that I think was caused by unsanitarily washed yeast, so having a ballpark clue about the taste of a 1.040 grav starter would taste like could be helpful before my next batch. I'm talking about a wort from an ordinary bitter.
 
I do my starters in an old "Sea Monkeys" aquarium so that when I'm bored I like to watch them playing baseball and riding in the park.
 
If I can piggy back a question to this thread, what should a starter taste like?

I have seen comments in the past both for and against tasting a starter. I chose not to do it. However, I recently had an infection that I think was caused by unsanitarily washed yeast, so having a ballpark clue about the taste of a 1.040 grav starter would taste like could be helpful before my next batch. I'm talking about a wort from an ordinary bitter.

My light dme starters taste like light unhopped beer if that makes sense. Not very good but no wanky off flavors either.
 
My light dme starters taste like light unhopped beer if that makes sense. Not very good but no wanky off flavors either.

Yup! Thanks. That makes perfect sense (To me, at least) I will be tasting them from now on. I'm not even sure why I never did, I mean, I taste every other darn thing! :)
 
I liter water to 1/4 cup DME? That's going to be a seriously undernourished starter with an OG of 1.010 - 1.012. I'd step it up with at least an extra 1/2 cup DME, boiled in about 1/2 pint water, and then cooled.

-a,
 
I liter water to 1/4 cup DME? That's going to be a seriously undernourished starter with an OG of 1.010 - 1.012. I'd step it up with at least an extra 1/2 cup DME, boiled in about 1/2 pint water, and then cooled.

-a,


That is the ratio Midwest told me to use. Would using smack pack a day prior, like i did, make any difference?
 
Or you can pitch with what you made, because it will still be pretty okay, and learn that for next time you probably want to go with about a cup of dme for the liter.
 
If i added extra wort tonight, when's the soonest it would OK to brew? I was planning on brewing tomorrow, but could wait till Saturday if i had to. I'd rather do all i can to ensure this batch will turn out well.
 
I dont think you need to add more wort. Your starter should be fine. If you choose to add more then give it 24-48 hrs before you pitch it.
 
I usually use around 3/4 cup for 1L starters. I also built a stir plate using the threads here and everything has worked out well. It's nice to see the color change in the starter on the plate due to more yeast being there. I've had krausen on some and nothing but the color change on others. I also have yet to see a difference between decanting and just throwing it in. Good luck and shake it as much as you can for now. Also I usually give my starters around 2 days time before I pitch them
 
If i added extra wort tonight, when's the soonest it would OK to brew? I was planning on brewing tomorrow, but could wait till Saturday if i had to. I'd rather do all i can to ensure this batch will turn out well.

Like someone else you probably should wait an extra day if you do pitch more wort but really, you've already done much more than even Wyeast claims is necessary to ensure that your batch turns out well. Unless this is some monster beer your population is almost certainly plenty as is. Some would argue that it was fine before you pitched the smack pack into the starter wort.
 
The purpose of a starter is to increase the yeast cell count and to get the yeasts prepared for a healthy fermentation. Introducing the yeasts to a wort with an OG of only 1.010 just isn't going to give them enough nutrients to multiply, and certainly won't prepare it for fermenting out a full batch.
See http://maltosefalcons.com/tech/yeast-propagation-and-maintenance-principles-and-practices for a lot of great information on yeast starters.
I would also contact Midwest, and let them know about the 1/4 cup to 1 liter recommendation so they don't give the same information to other people. Are you sure they said 1/4 cup and not 1/4 lb? If you can step up the starter tonight, it should have a very beneficial effect.

-a.
 
The purpose of a starter is to increase the yeast cell count and to get the yeasts prepared for a healthy fermentation. Introducing the yeasts to a wort with an OG of only 1.010 just isn't going to give them enough nutrients to multiply, and certainly won't prepare it for fermenting out a full batch.
See http://maltosefalcons.com/tech/yeast-propagation-and-maintenance-principles-and-practices for a lot of great information on yeast starters.
I would also contact Midwest, and let them know about the 1/4 cup to 1 liter recommendation so they don't give the same information to other people. Are you sure they said 1/4 cup and not 1/4 lb? If you can step up the starter tonight, it should have a very beneficial effect.

-a.

As of now, am i better off than i would be with just using the smack pack and throwing it in?
 
Yes you are. The yeast have started the replication process and most importantly, they have woken up and are looking for ****e to do.

A lot of alarmists on this site always look to the worst case scenario. Fact is, your yeast is much farther along than probably 80% of Wyeast users out there who just smack and pitch. And guess what? the yeast somehow magically figure out what to do. (Maybe its the 3 billion years of practice that they have had.)
 
It just totally depends on what yeast and the conditions you have it going at. I have seen little to no activity all the way to heavy krausening.

here is some harvested pacman going

P1040915-800.jpg
 
As of now, am i better off than i would be with just using the smack pack and throwing it in?
From the link I posted:
"Lower gravity starters (O.G. = 1.020) are commonly used by homebrewers and routinely produce higher concentrations of yeast but do not perform well when pitched into normal brewing worts."
It is my belief that pitching your existing starter is going to give you fermentation problems, but if you step up the starter, you have a better than even chance of overcoming those problems.
I don't think I'm being an alarmist so much as a realist who has made hundreds of brews using liquid yeast
-a.
 
Sorry, but that is exactly the type of worst case alarmism that makes new brewers paranoid that there is a problem with their beer. This guy just wants to brew tomorrow and the starter he has will work fine and you are out and out declaring that his "existing starter wil give him fermentation problems" and that if he steps it up he only has a better than 50/50 chance of overcoming those problems? With all due respect (and I mean that, I have a lot of respect for your advice the vast majority of the time) but this could not be more overblown and alarmist.

I have made several hundred batches, including at least 50 liquid yeast batches USING NO STARTER AT ALL, and have never had a single "fermentation problem" once. I even pitched a year old White Labs vial straight into the wort and yet somehow the yeast figured out what to do. And like I said I have brewed several hundred batches and even now, if I wake up and have a compulsion to brew and did not have the foresight to do a starter I have no problem with directly pitching a vial or smack pack into a normal beer with zero worries at all.

EDIT: BTW if the OP were talking about a Big Belgian or a RIS then I would be agreeing with you and not debating.)
 
I like it how people will post things like "fermentaion problems." What the heck does that even mean? I'm new and have made three batches now and just smaked the activator and threw it in and all have turned out great. porter, IPA, and Fat Tire clone. Although, I am planning on doing starters from now on. I'm soon going to post a thread about starters and pitching rates asking some questions and quoting an article by John Palmer. happy brewing!
 
I believe the main point was that to ensure proper yeast health and growth the optimum range would be in the 1.040 range based on Wyeast and Whitelabs own data. Yes you will have a fermentation by underpitching or overpitching. I know that if I make a starter and only let it go for a day, I will not have a lot of growth but I will get the yeast active.
 
Dontman,

I think you and I speak different languages.

First, I quoted from the link that I posted, and I think she has much more knowledge about this subject than either of us.

I then stated by beliefs. I didn't state them as facts, but specified that that was what I believe. The OP asked for advice, and I gave him what I believe to be accurate advice together with a simple method for overcoming the potential problems.
I hardly think that this is being alarmist when it was accompanied by a solution.

You responded with "that is exactly the type of worst case alarmism that makes new brewers paranoid" followed by "and you are out and out declaring that his "existing starter will give him fermentation problems""

I do believe that his original starter will give fermentation problems because he is almost certainly under pitching some very stressed yeast. I didn't out and out declare this to be a fact. You incorrectly stated that I did.

As for the problems that I think the original starter could cause they are, in decreasing order of probability:
Long lag time
Sluggish fermentation
Poor attenuation
Increased fusel alcohol production
Excessive ester production
Increased diacetyl
Increased acetaldehyde

I do know that with poorly prepared starters, I have suffered from the first 5 of these problems.

-a.
 

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