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jcarson83
Well-Known Member
I've got the same cold water tank cooler. I cut a hole in one of the cup holders to run the hoses and cord through to keep it sealed better.
Water Fermentation Chiller
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JonGoku
Well-Known Member
Nice work! Thanks for the pics.
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jcarson83
Well-Known Member
Finally got around to taking some photos of the new overflow setup. It looks very similar to the others.
The basic setup is a copper pipe to a 90 elbow to a male threaded connection. I had to make the plastic washer to get a tight seal with the gasket that came off the cooler.
You can see the corrosion caused by adding too much bleach to the chilled water. It gets a little stinky after a few weeks but all you really need is about a teaspoon.
The basic setup is a copper pipe to a 90 elbow to a male threaded connection. I had to make the plastic washer to get a tight seal with the gasket that came off the cooler.
You can see the corrosion caused by adding too much bleach to the chilled water. It gets a little stinky after a few weeks but all you really need is about a teaspoon.
Hang Glider
Beer Drinker
I dribbled in a bit of StarSan to my water to keep it clean (instead of bleach)...
my .02
my .02
RecruitNBrew
Well-Known Member
After doing more research, I realize that the system also has another useful application. Before the fermentation stage, I will be connecting the chill water cooler and pump to my immersion chiller to cool my worts down much faster.
It'll will be easier to justify the investment to the wife!!
It'll will be easier to justify the investment to the wife!!
JonGoku
Well-Known Member
Do any of you guys using this system add anything to the water to keep it clean? Something like Starsan, Bleach, etc.
Hang Glider
Beer Drinker
Post # 43 and 44 above. Bleach and StarSan
JonGoku
Well-Known Member
Damn your good. Answering questions before they could be asked! LOL, sorry, I'm not sure how I missed that.
RecruitNBrew
Well-Known Member
Can anyone point me to reliable data about how the temperature of the wort inside the carboy changes during the fermentation process? I've heard that it can be up to 10 degrees warmer than the ambient temperature during the first few days and then it tapers off.
JCarson and Hangglider, Do you make adjustments to your temp controller during the fermentation or just leave it on one static temperature the whole time?
JCarson and Hangglider, Do you make adjustments to your temp controller during the fermentation or just leave it on one static temperature the whole time?
Don't think about TEMPERATURE, think about HEAT. There is a fixed amount of HEAT produced by fermentation, and the slower the fermentation, the slower the release of heat. The larger the volume, the more thermal mass there is to absorb the heat.
It's about 140 kilocalories per kilogram of extract* fermented.
I believe that if a temp probe taped to the side of a fermenter in open air is accurate within a degree, then the same probe in a water bath should be within a degree.
I use this system too.
*Meaning sugar.
It's about 140 kilocalories per kilogram of extract* fermented.
I believe that if a temp probe taped to the side of a fermenter in open air is accurate within a degree, then the same probe in a water bath should be within a degree.
I use this system too.
*Meaning sugar.
Beernip
Well-Known Member
Anyone ever think about connecting this system to a water dispenser unit? I see them on craigslist from time to time for about $40. Some have both a hot and cold ports. With a dual stage controller you may be able to heat and cool.
GE Hot & Cold Free Standing Water Dispenser - GXCF05D at The Home Depot
GE Hot & Cold Free Standing Water Dispenser - GXCF05D at The Home Depot
JonGoku
Well-Known Member
I think that might be going a step beyond the low cost and multifunctionality point of these sytesms. When not used as such they revert back to coolers etc and are fairly low budget items.
On the other hand that sounds like a pretty cool idea if neither of the above are of concern. My only concern if you were able to work out the engineerding part would be that the hot water supplied would be too hot and you may very well overshoot your desired temp.
RecruitNBrew
Well-Known Member
Don't think about TEMPERATURE, think about HEAT. There is a fixed amount of HEAT produced by fermentation, and the slower the fermentation, the slower the release of heat. The larger the volume, the more thermal mass there is to absorb the heat.
It's about 140 kilocalories per kilogram of extract* fermented.
I believe that if a temp probe taped to the side of a fermenter in open air is accurate within a degree, then the same probe in a water bath should be within a degree.
I use this system too.
*Meaning sugar.
Thanks for the info! Now I can just relax, not worry, and have a store bought brew (waiting for the 1st batch of homebrew to finish).
Just to be extra anal, I have the thermowell pushed up against the carboy
Beernip
Well-Known Member
I understand going for a low cost solution but this project depends mostly on reusing items at hand to keep it low cost. If you could find this cheep or free it may be an option. To me it mostly just sounds like fun.
You could always blend the hot water output with the cold to reach a more desirable temp.
RecruitNBrew
Well-Known Member
I think the easiest solution to add heat would be a submersible fish tank heater. They usually have auto shutoff settings with a range of about 65 to 80 degrees (would work for everything but lagers). You can pick one up for less than $30 and it wouldn't require a dual temp control unit. No further plumbing modifications required either....
c0bra
Well-Known Member
I was looking for info on the water resistance of the Ranco sensors and got this off their site:
"Note: The manufacturer does not recommend the sensor be directly submersed in liquids."
Has anyone had any problems with this or is it just manufacturer CYA?
"Note: The manufacturer does not recommend the sensor be directly submersed in liquids."
Has anyone had any problems with this or is it just manufacturer CYA?
bendavanza
Well-Known Member
that's odd. The ranco probe is supposed to be submersible. That's one of the reasons I bough it instead of the analog capillary tube from Johnson C.
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jcarson83
Well-Known Member
There is a post on here that shows you how to waterproof with some silicon tubing. I've never worried about it and just submerge it about and inch so the hard plastic is the only wet part.
I like it- I was actually considering something very similar- moreso I was going to simply use a 55 gallon drum to hold a 10 gallon primary at 60ish degrees by circulating water around it. Your design definitely steps up the idea by circulating icy cold water and eliminating the need for running up an electric bill with a spare fridge.
RecruitNBrew
Well-Known Member
What is the coldest temperature you have achieved with this system?
With daily ice block changes (using this system), I can usually keep it around 40 degrees.
I put one of those fabric box shaped coolers over the top of my water cooler to provide additional insulation.
Any ideas on how to push it down to the mid to hi 30's?
I'd like to lager below 40 if possible.
(Please don't be a horse's ass and say "get an old refrigerator instead")
With daily ice block changes (using this system), I can usually keep it around 40 degrees.
I put one of those fabric box shaped coolers over the top of my water cooler to provide additional insulation.
Any ideas on how to push it down to the mid to hi 30's?
I'd like to lager below 40 if possible.
(Please don't be a horse's ass and say "get an old refrigerator instead")
Hang Glider
Beer Drinker
mid 30's ???
with a cooler and ice?
with a cooler and ice?
JonGoku
Well-Known Member
How cold are you able to get the cooler that contains the ice water? You obviously can't make the fermentor coolor any colder than the water from the ice water cooler, but you should be able to get a temperature almost the same. Perhaps you need a faster pump or more ice.
Other Horse's Ass Options:
1) Dry Ice
2) Get a Freezer (Freeze != Refrigerator)
3) Move a lot further north
Other Horse's Ass Options:
1) Dry Ice
2) Get a Freezer (Freeze != Refrigerator)
3) Move a lot further north
RecruitNBrew
Well-Known Member
Nice pics gents.
I can keep the ice water cooler right above freezing with good sized ice blocks (changed daily). It's about 90-95 degrees in my garage during the day, so that isn't helping
I guess mid 30's is not feasible. Is 40 degrees cold enough to lager?
I can keep the ice water cooler right above freezing with good sized ice blocks (changed daily). It's about 90-95 degrees in my garage during the day, so that isn't helping
I guess mid 30's is not feasible. Is 40 degrees cold enough to lager?
Hang Glider
Beer Drinker
Yup. 40-55 for lager yeasts in most cases.
Cool - large ice blocks - hmm..I bet they do last a good bit longer
Cool - large ice blocks - hmm..I bet they do last a good bit longer
RecruitNBrew
Well-Known Member
They're technically ice disks. I bought a couple shallow plastic pails in the painting section from Home Depot (About 6 inches deep and 12 inch diameter. $1.98 each) and they both fit perfectly in the top shelf of the freezer. I think they each hold up to 5 qts.
They also have a metal handle which is helpful.
I tried clear plastic shoebox style boxes from Target, but both of them cracked within a couple weeks. The round shape and solid blue plastic seem to be sturdier. We'll see.
They also have a metal handle which is helpful.
I tried clear plastic shoebox style boxes from Target, but both of them cracked within a couple weeks. The round shape and solid blue plastic seem to be sturdier. We'll see.
JonGoku
Well-Known Member
Got a pic of your set up with the fabric box cooler lid on top?
I think your main issue is that your fermentation cooler isn't insulated enough. One more thing you might look into is to create a false top to your fermentation cooler from Styrofoam. Something that would be as airtight as possible with holes in it for everything you have going in/out of it. You could throw some of the reflective bubble wrap insulation they use for water coolers around your cooler too.
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jcarson83
Well-Known Member
Thats a good temp to for primary fermentation of a lager yeast but after that is done "lagering" needs to take place just above freezing or 33-35F.
RecruitNBrew
Well-Known Member
I agree that 33-35F is ideal, but John Palmer's How To Brew says this:
Nominal lagering times are 3 - 4 weeks at 45°F, 5 - 6 weeks at 40°F, or 7 - 8 weeks at 35°F
With a few adjustments, I've been holding the temp at 38F for the last two days. It's a little more maintenance with the daily ice changes, but I don't mind the extra effort. Staying involved in the process is fun for me as a new brewer. Keeping within 3 degrees of 35F should lead to a good beer.
Nominal lagering times are 3 - 4 weeks at 45°F, 5 - 6 weeks at 40°F, or 7 - 8 weeks at 35°F
With a few adjustments, I've been holding the temp at 38F for the last two days. It's a little more maintenance with the daily ice changes, but I don't mind the extra effort. Staying involved in the process is fun for me as a new brewer. Keeping within 3 degrees of 35F should lead to a good beer.
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jcarson83
Well-Known Member
Nice! I guess you could lager fairly easily with this system then. When shooting for the really low temps I find it easier to just dump the ice bin from the freezer in since it fills up by the next day anyway. I still use frozen water bottles but gave up on gallon jugs since they take too long to freeze.
JonGoku
Well-Known Member
I still think you should make a custom styrofoam lid and see if that gives you a few more degrees improvement. Here are a few pics of a false strofoam lid I made so my rectangular cooler could house my 7 gallon bucket. There is no water exchange in this setup, but I look to try something like what you guys have going sometime soon.
djnewdynasty
Member
Have you thought about doing a system that doesnt have the carboy sitting in water? Im trying to figure out how to do something similar, but using copper tubing and a insulating material and having the cold water run through that so it cools just the same. Would that be an option of using the cooler, and run a similar setup to what youve created?
RecruitNBrew
Well-Known Member
If you had a fully sealed/insulated cooler with the carboy wrapped with an assload of copper tubing (Similar shaping to an immersion wort chiller), I think it could work. I'm not big into physics, but I don't think it would be as efficient as having the carboy in direct contact with the water (water covers quite a bit more surface area than copper tubing). Your minimum temperature probably wouldn't be as low either (which is only important if you want to lager or cold crash). With that being said, just make it and be a homebrew pioneer!:rockin:
djnewdynasty
Member
haha. right, it would have a gelitin type material covering the copper tubing. Ill try it if it wont be too expensive.
RecruitNBrew
Well-Known Member
Got a pic of your set up with the fabric box cooler lid on top?
I think your main issue is that your fermentation cooler isn't insulated enough. One more thing you might look into is to create a false top to your fermentation cooler from Styrofoam. Something that would be as airtight as possible with holes in it for everything you have going in/out of it. You could throw some of the reflective bubble wrap insulation they use for water coolers around your cooler too.
Here are pics of the covered cooler set-up and the buckets I use for the ice disks:
Fabric Cooler Covering Water Cooler on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Buckets for Ice Disks on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
To get a better fit over the cooler, I've swapped out the airlock for a sanitized piece of aluminum foil.
It is about 100 degrees in my garage these days and I'm still holding 38 degrees with daily ice changes. Not too shabby.
dantodd
Well-Known Member
Wouldn't it be easier to just keep the carboy in an ice bath rather than bothering to pump the water from the other cooler? Also, dump some rock salt into the water, that will help it reach a lower temperature, just like making ice cream.
Orangevango
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but might also corrode your pump over time if its a cheap one.
dantodd
Well-Known Member
I meant directly into the cooler holding the carboy, if you are just trying to keep it as cold as possible for lagering the extra cooler and pump aren't necessary.
djnewdynasty
Member
yes dan, but that would need to constant refilling, and if your carboy drops to low in temperature, you would have to dump all your water, ice, and salt out, thats the reason for having the pump. its a safer regulation method. the idea of it is that a) the water inside the cooler holding the carboy is at lets say 60 degrees, the water and ice with your pump in the second cooler is about 40. if your brew needs to be sustained at 60, and you have constant 40 degree water in there, it probably will not turn out correct. however with 40 degree water cycling with the 60 water, the warm water gets dumped to the ice cooler, and is replaced by the cold water, keeping the carboy at a steady 60 degrees.
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jcarson83
Well-Known Member
Exactly so. As little temperature fluctuation as possible is the goal.
JonGoku
Well-Known Member
I think Dan is only looking at the lagering aspect, were as these contraptions are designed to not only lager but to ferment at ale temps and inbetween. If you are only looking at maintaining the lowest lagering temps as possible then yes, keeping your carboy in an ice bath might work but it would be less controlled especially if you had a ice salt water bath since you could potentially bring the bath to freezing temperatures (maybe?).
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