Making Traditional rice Wine. Cheap, Fun, and Different

saramc said:

So are you at 20# dry rice, one pkg RYR and four yeast balls? Even the red sake, akaisake, uses yeast in addition to the koji and red koji. Watching with interest.

Click to expand...

Yup, that's where it stands right now. I thought RYR would be rice and.... YEAST!?!? Silly me.

My thoughts were that with such little yeast to start with, it would take a while for the colony to grow, leaving too much time for spoilage or bacteria. The ferment bucket was open and closed all day long openning, adding, stirring, closing, openning, etc... there were lots of chances for contamination. Hopefully this will kick it off and get some alcohol production to kill any unwanted stuff. I bought the best rice I could find, so this batch is somewhere in the $30 range for supplies. I saw some other glutinous sushi rice, but it didn't specifically say short grain, and that's what I was after this time. The dry rice kernels looked more like big tapioca beads than rice grain.

trbig said:

No, you don't have to have the red yeast rice.. but I'm trying to determine if you need additional yeast if you add the red rice, and according to Demonslick, you still need yeast.

I have no patience. I threw two more yeast balls in the coffee grinder, added them to about a cup of warm water, then poured it all over rice. When I pulled the lid off, I couldn't smell anything but the rice, so no alcohol being made yet. Hopefully that liquid yeast dripping down through it will fire it off, and as the liquid drips down when it's being converted, it'll carry the yeast through the batch to the bottom.

Click to expand...

Do you know the benefit in using it?

Maybe i dont understand what it is

CliffMongoloid said:

Do you know the benefit in using it?

Maybe i dont understand what it is

Click to expand...

I believe the monascuc purpureus in the red yeast rice produces both amylase A and amylase B. Resulting in a more complete breakdown of the starch in the rice and a resulting higher yield. It's also supposed to produce a lot of fruity compounds, making the flavor very different from unmixed rice wine.

I will have to see if I can find some again. I'm thinking I'll run the grains experiment with red rice yeast so I can observe the results again.

It also produces the active ingredient in lovostatin, a prescription drug for lowering cholesterol. So, if you are taking anything for your cholesterol you shouldn't be drinking red rice wine. It could interact with, or change the effective dosage of, a cholesterol reducing medication.

Leadgolem said:

I believe the monascuc purpureus in the red yeast rice produces both amylase A and amylase B. Resulting in a more complete breakdown of the starch in the rice and a resulting higher yield. It's also supposed to produce a lot of fruity compounds, making the flavor very different from unmixed rice wine.

I will have to see if I can find some again. I'm thinking I'll run the grains experiment with red rice yeast so I can observe the results again.

It also produces the active ingredient in lovostatin, a prescription drug for lowering cholesterol. So, if you are taking anything for your cholesterol you shouldn't be drinking red rice wine. It could interact with, or change the effective dosage of, a cholesterol reducing medication.

Click to expand...

Thank you for the informative response.

I am going to go with both, the red yeast rice and rice balls.

Also using sushi rice

Here's the week two update on the grains experiment.

Wheat Berries: More visible mold, still no liquid.
Brown Rice: Visible mold, liquid level does not appear to have changed. Still no separation of liquid from the rice grains.
Basmati Rice: No visible mold, liquid level has approximately doubled.
Long Grain White Rice: Visible spots of mold on the upper part of the rice, liquid has approximately doubled. Still no separation of liquid from the rice grains.
Jasmine Rice: No visible mold, liquid level has increased by approximately 2.5 times. This is now the most liquefied batch.
Japanese Sweet Rice: Mold covers all parts of the rice that remain dry, liquid has approximately doubled. Slightly less of the rice in this batch has liquefied as compared to the jasmine rice batch.

The yellowish tinge to the Japanese sweet rice batch is from a light source off to the side, all of the rice wine is the same color.

Leadgolem said:

Here's the week two update on the grains experiment.

Wheat Berries: More visible mold, still no liquid.
Brown Rice: Visible mold, liquid level does not appear to have changed. Still no separation of liquid from the rice grains.
Basmati Rice: No visible mold, liquid level has approximately doubled.
Long Grain White Rice: Visible spots of mold on the upper part of the rice, liquid has approximately doubled. Still no separation of liquid from the rice grains.
Jasmine Rice: No visible mold, liquid level has increased by approximately 2.5 times. This is now the most liquefied batch.
Japanese Sweet Rice: Mold covers all parts of the rice that remain dry, liquid has approximately doubled. Slightly less of the rice in this batch has liquefied as compared to the jasmine rice batch.

The yellowish tinge to the Japanese sweet rice batch is from a light source off the side, all of the rice wine is the same color.

Click to expand...

Interesting... So far it would seem that if you're going for highest yield to use jasmine rice

Jeebas said:

Interesting... So far it would seem that if you're going for highest yield to use jasmine rice

Click to expand...

True, though it appeared the Japanese sweet rice would take that honor at week 1. I'm done trying to predict what is going to happen. I'll just wait and record the results.

The tasting comparisons should be interesting as well. Though it doesn't look like I am going to yield anything from the wheat berries or brown rice.

Should you worry.about the mold?

The brown rice has husk on it, which can't be converted, so it adds nothing, some claim it gives a bad flavor. Not sure about the other grains. Traditional Chinese alternatives to rice are Chestnuts and Sweet Potatoes, I think someone did sweet potatoes about 60 pages ago.

CliffMongoloid said:

Should you worry.about the mold?

Click to expand...

The kind of mold I'm seeing is all the white mold I've had on previous batches. I do not believe any of the experimental jars has been infected with anything else.

I believe the mold produces the amylase enzyme that breaks down the starch in the rice. It just doesn't always produce the visible fussy white form on the rice. It only seems to do this where the rice is just slightly damp.

TheDemonSlick said:

The brown rice has husk on it, which can't be converted, so it adds nothing, some claim it gives a bad flavor. Not sure about the other grains. Traditional Chinese alternatives to rice are Chestnuts and Sweet Potatoes, I think someone did sweet potatoes about 60 pages ago.

Click to expand...

I was more curious if the fungus would be able to effectively penetrate the husk, and/or bran, and convert the starch inside. I think this is occurring with the brown rice, but extremely slowly. For the wheat berries, I believe the fungus has failed to penetrate the bran.

I may run a latter experiment in which the grains are coarsely milled prior to cooking. That should break up the barrier that is preventing the fungus from converting the starches to sugar. I have no idea what it would taste like though.

Sweet potatoes have been tried as you mentioned. I do not like sweet potatoes.

Chestnuts might be interesting. I think I would have to have a local source of inexpensive chestnuts before I'd do to much experimentation in that direction though.

I found a recipe for brown rice that recommends cracking/breaking the brown rice before cooking. Seems like that would make sense to allow easier access to the endosperm but that only really makes sense is if the off taste added by the bran was desirable. Also, that particular recipe used RRY in it as well and a 90/10 mix of brown to white (white was sushi rice). I saved the link some-freaking-where. Will post it if I can find it.

Yeah, the yeast (fungus) needs the mold to break it down first. Pretty sure that's what you mean anyways, just saying it to be clear. Japanese Koji rice get milled down to 60-40% (they shave off 40-60% of the outside) so I think there's something to that, probably easier for the mold to penetrate. Lol. He said endosperm. Wah!

"Endosperm" is the white part on the inside of the rice grain...

Joking aside, I've got my current batch running ala traditional. Will probably do the RRY next. I'm curious though... In some Sake guides (I understand this isn't but still) it suggests KCl (salt substitute containing potassium) and a little epson salt to add nutrients (some with Nitrogen as well). I'm curious if anyone has tried it with these and if the results were any better?

Accidic said:

"Endosperm" is the white part on the inside of the rice grain...

Joking aside, I've got my current batch running ala traditional. Will probably do the RRY next. I'm curious though... In some Sake guides (I understand this isn't but still) it suggests KCl (salt substitute containing potassium) and a little epson salt to add nutrients (some with Nitrogen as well). I'm curious if anyone has tried it with these and if the results were any better?

Click to expand...

Beong epsom salt is a laxative I will not be trying this lol I am enjoying my fresh batch harvested yesterday, cold crashed it a day and a half and drinking the "cleared" version and its decidedly drier with a slight tart finish. The fiancee likes it better than cloudy says "its got balls"

Just backsweetened some of the cleared with grapefruit juice.......its awesome, you gotta try it!!

Did you use red yeast rice or is the color from the juice? Looks freakin delicous.

TheDemonSlick said:

Did you use red yeast rice or is the color from the juice? Looks freakin delicous.

Click to expand...

Color is from the juice, I cold crashed it after harvest and cleared it out then added the juice and it is effin delicious!!!!

Is this what i need?

CliffMongoloid said:

Is this what i need?

Click to expand...

Yes...go a few pages back and you will see discount codes for that vendor

I harvested tonight after 28 days, straining through a hop sack. It is very milky and very alcoholic in flavor. Out of 2.5 cups of jasmine, I got about 4.5 cups of wine. I was amazed by how much the solids compressed during harvest.

Ostomo517 said:

Beong epsom salt is a laxative I will not be trying this lol I am enjoying my fresh batch harvested yesterday, cold crashed it a day and a half and drinking the "cleared" version and its decidedly drier with a slight tart finish. The fiancee likes it better than cloudy says "its got balls"

Click to expand...

At high doses it is. I use it in every beer batch for the magnesium and sulfate.

Just bottled the two 1 gallon jars I had prepared. The bottle on the left was from the batch I started March 3rd and the two on the right from March 2nd. Not sure why I got almost double the amount out of it. Especially since I used less water with that attempt. Both taste clean with a slight wine tanginess to them.

mpride1911 said:

Just bottled the two 1 gallon jars I had prepared. The bottle on the left was from the batch I started March 3rd and the two on the right from March 2nd. Not sure why I got almost double the amount out of it. Especially since I used less water with that attempt. Both taste clean with a slight wine tanginess to them.

Click to expand...

Lookin damn tasty!

Just wanted to say thanks to sonofgrok. Just harvested my rice wine and its delicious. Slightly sweet on the front end, tangy on the back end and you can definitely taste the alcohol.

I got this from 4 cups of sushi rice.

Right now its chilling in the kegerator, after i pastuerized it. Going to flavor the half jar with some raspberry shrub i got from the farmers market this weekend.

Starting to think dry hopped after grapefruit juice would be delicious

First (large, busy) store I went to they showed me bread yeast packets. Fortunately, Chinese yeast balls were right around the corner.

Stopped by a second store recently and they had Vietnamese yeast balls behind the counter. She asked if I was making wine and I said I'd made it with Thai jasmine rice and was excited to make more (didn't mention the failed calrose batch). I was told not to use Thai jasmine rice . She asked if I knew how to make it and I told her my Thai jasmine batch turned out great, but I'd love to hear her directions. She insisted "it won't work with Thai jasmine", then sold me a 5lbs bag of long grain sweet rice (from Thailand) and said I'd need 8 yeast balls ($1 per bag of 4).

Directions were: cook the rice, spread it on a cookie sheet, when it isn't hot but isn't cold sprinkle the yeast on top, put it in a jar and seal it tight! (emphasis in original)... of course, no mention of star-san, either.
She said I'd have wine in three days, but it would be very different after three years... the longer you wait the more it changes.

Started:
2 cup batch with long grain sweet rice and 2 Vietnamese yeast balls (accidentally doubled the pitching rate from the package directions & grocers directions)
2 cup batch with Thai jasmine and 2 Vietnamese yeast balls (keeping it consistent)
3 cup batch with Thai jasmine and my last 3 Chinese yeast balls (accidentally cooked half as much rice as I intended!)

But, this time I soaked the rice an hour and cooked it in an electric pressure cooker for 3 minutes high pressure with 1.5 cups water to 2 cups rice... will probably try the 1:1 ratio next time, but thought even less water might be better since the pressure cooker doesn't allow evaporation during cooking.

I'm hoping the Vietnamese yeast balls work out since they are cheaper and more conveniently located. Though after buying rice in bulk I figured up the cost at $1.24 after taxes for 750ml of an awesome tasting 40 proof drink so I'm not too worried if I have to pay double for yeast balls

Nice! Just got home from work and checked mine... still bubbling away, but the rice has absorbed most of the liquid. That's what I was told to expect, but I was worried about too much water... doing a rice, red yeast rice, water and bakers yeast. 2-3 gallon batch in a 6.5 gallon bucket. Day 5. I made another thread for it in ingredients. I was. Too scared of yeast balls, but this thread made me feel better about them... next batch. Not that sure about the rice, I'm using the shortest grain I could find. I was told that's best but not why... other people on this thread have said that shorter grain rices contain shorter carbohydrate chains that are easier for the enzymes and yeast to digest (There is obviously mold in the "yeast balls", or they wouldn't work... yeast alone can't process rice into ethanol). I looked that carb thing up on a Sake site and they said the same thing.

OG_IBU_Bunghole said:

I was told not to use Thai jasmine rice . She asked if I knew how to make it and I told her my Thai jasmine batch turned out great, but I'd love to hear her directions. She insisted "it won't work with Thai jasmine", then sold me a 5lbs bag of long grain sweet rice (from Thailand) and said I'd need 8 yeast balls ($1 per bag of 4).

Click to expand...

I guess I have been drinking fictional Thai jasmine wine for years then...

I don't know if the extra two yeast balls poured over it fired it off or if it would have started anyway, but the airlock has started bubbling on my 6 gallon batch.

It just dawned on me that if this large batch converts to mostly liquid, I've got no space in the fridge for that much. Has anyone tried freeze distillation with this stuff?

Pasturize?

And the first guy I ever watched brew used a pinch of epson salt and what I'm pretty sure now was old bakers yeast. His explanation was it helped the yeast work better. Just started setting similar advice for sake and wondered if it'd be advisable for this.

All yeast are going to do the same thing.. convert sugars to alcohol and CO2. But, they will also impart their own flavors to the final product, good or bad.

As far as pasteurizing.. If I were to do so, do you think the rice wine could then be stored at room temps in sealed bottles like beer?

CliffMongoloid said:

Is this what i need?

Click to expand...

I was talking with a friend and he said this rice yeast and most red rice yeast in America is a supplement and not the real thing

I guess the real thing is hard to find


Has anyone used this exact product with success?

CliffMongoloid said:

I was talking with a friend and he said this rice yeast and most red rice yeast in America is a supplement and not the real thing

I guess the real thing is hard to find

Has anyone used this exact product with success?

Click to expand...

Yes, the products you referenced have been used with success. If you read this thread you will see that info. The RYR is the 'real thing' as are the red yeast rice supplements which contain the rice finely pulverized; though you do need to check supplement labels. Many people used the RYR in the supplements when the whole rice could not be found. You simply need to know of what you speak.

trbig said:

All yeast are going to do the same thing.. convert sugars to alcohol and CO2. But, they will also impart their own flavors to the final product, good or bad.

As far as pasteurizing.. If I were to do so, do you think the rice wine could then be stored at room temps in sealed bottles like beer?

Click to expand...

Yes, pasteurization is what makes ALL rice wine and sake shelf stable.

saramc said:

Yes, the products you referenced have been used with success. If you read this thread you will see that info. The RYR is the 'real thing' as are the red yeast rice supplements which contain the rice finely pulverized; though you do need to check supplement labels. Many people used the RYR in the supplements when the whole rice could not be found. You simply need to know of what you speak.

Yes, pasteurization is what makes ALL rice wine and sake shelf stable.

Click to expand...

Well i thank you for the information... I did read though the thread but was just confused, i didn't know of what i speak that's why i asked, knowledge is power!

saramc said:

Yes, the products you referenced have been used with success. If you read this thread you will see that info. The RYR is the 'real thing' as are the red yeast rice supplements which contain the rice finely pulverized; though you do need to check supplement labels. Many people used the RYR in the supplements when the whole rice could not be found. You simply need to know of what you speak.

Click to expand...

I've been doing a lot of reading on the RYR. There's a special process that produces the specific strain of monacolin K, which is what the statin drugs are made from. Not all RYRs are equal. Most of the "Supplemental" RYR powder contains very low, or none at all, of the monacolins used to lower cholesterol. When imported supplements are tested, the FDA bans them if they have anything more than trace amounts statin type chemicals... though how many get through before being tested? Plageurized off the net...

"The composition of red yeast rice products varies depending on the yeast strains and culture conditions used to manufacture them. The strains and conditions used to produce culinary red yeast rice differ from those used to produce products that are intended to lower cholesterol. Tests performed by the FDA indicate that the red yeast rice sold as a food product contains only traces of monacolin k or none at all."

That being said, I donate blood regularly, so if my cholesterol numbers start dropping significantly after drinking from this batch, I'll be the first to say I was wrong! lol.

trbig said:

"The composition of red yeast rice products varies depending on the yeast strains and culture conditions used to manufacture them. The strains and conditions used to produce culinary red yeast rice differ from those used to produce products that are intended to lower cholesterol. Tests performed by the FDA indicate that the red yeast rice sold as a food product contains only traces of monacolin k or none at all."

Click to expand...

I'm not disputing the accuracy to the above. By nature, in fact, I am a rather cynical bastage... However, I would wonder just how much of the products many of us have been using have actually been tested by the FDA in the first place. Additionally, RRY is an innoculant of sorts as I understand it, capable of growing additional Monascus Purpureus. I don't know about the strains argument, but the conditions that the rice itself is treated with to create the RRY in the first place may very well be vastly different from the conditions we are growing them in. It would be interesting to see how much mono-k is present in the yeast (to start) and after fermenting if someone had the equipment, time, and resources for such a government project...

I agree. Upon reading, it seems that the RYR would be very easy to make. For hundreds of years, it was used as imply a food coloring agent, though it's said to impart enhanced flavors as well. And I agree. Our FDA's track record for checking things entering this country, is usually only AFTER there's been problems or deaths.

But, like I said, if my cholesterol numbers start dropping inexplicabley, I'll sure let you people know.

You can usually improve your cholesterol number by reducing the fruits and vegetables (and moreso processed sugars) from your diet and replacing it instead with bacon. How could you possibly go wrong? Honestly though I don't really buy into the LDL fearmongering all that much. Mainly just it's oxidized version.




That said, has anyone used pressure cookers to do their rice for this instead of just rice cookers? I've got one of the newfangled ones sitting there collecting dust that came with a steamer basket that would work with Rice in theory but I didn't think about trying it for my prior batch.

This looks amazing. Subbed to find later. (When I'm not at work...)

Accidic said:

That said, has anyone used pressure cookers to do their rice for this instead of just rice cookers? I've got one of the newfangled ones sitting there collecting dust that came with a steamer basket that would work with Rice in theory but I didn't think about trying it for my prior batch.

Click to expand...

I use an electric pressure cooker (instant pot) and it works great.