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nicksteck

nicksteck

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Location
St. Paul, MN
Living and brewing in Minnesota can be cold, i brew in my garage and hook up to my outside garden hose, the water temp in the house is about 47 degrees, by the time it hits the garage it's about 38-40 degrees. so that means i have to heat my water about 70-80 degrees to brew and about 140 to clean.

i found this outside faucet and the local plumbing shop and thought it would save a lot time on brew day. i tested my hot water in the house and it was 121 degrees, i may drop 10 degrees but it's still better than 40.

hose_001.JPG



hose_002.JPG



hose_003.JPG



hose_004.JPG
 
Pretty cool! I had no idea they made those.

Luckily my kitchen is close to my garage so I just carry hot water from the tap out to my garage 3 gallons at a time -- I have no patience for waiting for water to boil either.
 
You have to be careful using hot water, the inside of the tanks can have stuff you dont want in your beer, especially if the tank is older. I would do a water test on the hot water to make sure its good.
 
i was alway told that the water heater collects sediment, and you are heating you water in a brew kettle vs water heater, i don't get it?
 
Yeah. I don;t get why people post cautionary staement with nothing to back them up either. I guess it cause they heard it from "somewhere".

I'll take a somewhat edumacated stab at this tho'.

At 121*F, if that is the true temp in the tank, I would be concerned about bacterial load. I would be less concerned if you tank water temp was above 140*F. IIRC, between 80*F and 140*F are ideal temps for bacteria IF they are present in the system. Given that most water supplies are heavily treated to combat this, I doubt it's a real issue.

As for sedimentation, it is possible that the mineral load in the tank could be elevated but not likely. Yes, older tanks have sedimentation issues but taht is usually carbonate and that crap packs so hard you'd nneed a chisel to break it loose once it builds up. Most newer tanks have innard designed to minimize sedimentation within the tank.

I suggest you try this, fill a clear glass with your piping hot water and look at it for a while. If it's cloudy or you see a notable amount of "debris" floating around seriously re-consider. Likely, you will at first see cloudy water from air entrainment (thanks to the bubbler) and it will quickly clear.

Let the glass set for a while and check on it later for any sediment in the bottom of the glass. If the bottom of the glass gets coated, re-consider.

If all looks good I say go for it. I mean you ARE still going to boil right?

At the least you won't have need to heat cleaning water and you should be able to reduce the time to boil.

Also know that if you filter your water that most filters break down, or begin to, at 100*F. You can buy specialty filters at a higher rated temp but they are costly.

Personally, I would love to have a hose bib in the garage for brewing. As it goes right now, I run a hose from the bath faucet. One day I plan to install a bib in the garage furnace closet.
 
I have brewed over 40 batches using nothing BUT water from my hot water heater.

My water heater is 3 years old.

My beer is good.
 
GilaMinumBeer said:
Yeah. I don;t get why people post cautionary staement with nothing to back them up either. I guess it cause they heard it from "somewhere".

I'll take a somewhat edumacated stab at this tho'.

At 121*F, if that is the true temp in the tank, I would be concerned about bacterial load. I would be less concerned if you tank water temp was above 140*F. IIRC, between 80*F and 140*F are ideal temps for bacteria IF they are present in the system. Given that most water supplies are heavily treated to combat this, I doubt it's a real issue.

As for sedimentation, it is possible that the mineral load in the tank could be elevated but not likely. Yes, older tanks have sedimentation issues but taht is usually carbonate and that crap packs so hard you'd nneed a chisel to break it loose once it builds up. Most newer tanks have innard designed to minimize sedimentation within the tank.

I suggest you try this, fill a clear glass with your piping hot water and look at it for a while. If it's cloudy or you see a notable amount of "debris" floating around seriously re-consider. Likely, you will at first see cloudy water from air entrainment (thanks to the bubbler) and it will quickly clear.

Let the glass set for a while and check on it later for any sediment in the bottom of the glass. If the bottom of the glass gets coated, re-consider.

If all looks good I say go for it. I mean you ARE still going to boil right?

At the least you won't have need to heat cleaning water and you should be able to reduce the time to boil.

Also know that if you filter your water that most filters break down, or begin to, at 100*F. You can buy specialty filters at a higher rated temp but they are costly.

Personally, I would love to have a hose bib in the garage for brewing. As it goes right now, I run a hose from the bath faucet. One day I plan to install a bib in the garage furnace closet.
Click to expand...

thanks for the good info, i will try this tonight
 
Brewing with the hot water or not, I'm a bit pissed to find that they have mixers like that! I have fitted seperate hot and cold frost proof taps to my outside. A mixer would have been way better! :(
 
Another suggestion. Look at your hoses or make one of your own. Most garden and or RV hoses are not heat rated. I cannot attest to any chemical leeching but, at the least, the interior liner may break down and collapse.
 
GilaMinumBeer said:
Yeah. I don;t get why people post cautionary staement with nothing to back them up either. I guess it cause they heard it from "somewhere".

I'll take a somewhat edumacated stab at this tho'.

At 121*F, if that is the true temp in the tank, I would be concerned about bacterial load. I would be less concerned if you tank water temp was above 140*F. IIRC, between 80*F and 140*F are ideal temps for bacteria IF they are present in the system. Given that most water supplies are heavily treated to combat this, I doubt it's a real issue.

As for sedimentation, it is possible that the mineral load in the tank could be elevated but not likely. Yes, older tanks have sedimentation issues but taht is usually carbonate and that crap packs so hard you'd nneed a chisel to break it loose once it builds up. Most newer tanks have innard designed to minimize sedimentation within the tank.

I suggest you try this, fill a clear glass with your piping hot water and look at it for a while. If it's cloudy or you see a notable amount of "debris" floating around seriously re-consider. Likely, you will at first see cloudy water from air entrainment (thanks to the bubbler) and it will quickly clear.

Let the glass set for a while and check on it later for any sediment in the bottom of the glass. If the bottom of the glass gets coated, re-consider.

If all looks good I say go for it. I mean you ARE still going to boil right?

At the least you won't have need to heat cleaning water and you should be able to reduce the time to boil.

Also know that if you filter your water that most filters break down, or begin to, at 100*F. You can buy specialty filters at a higher rated temp but they are costly.

Personally, I would love to have a hose bib in the garage for brewing. As it goes right now, I run a hose from the bath faucet. One day I plan to install a bib in the garage furnace closet.
Click to expand...

EPA lead
"Lead is rarely found in source water, but enters tap water through corrosion of plumbing materials. Homes built before 1986 are more likely to have lead pipes, fixtures and solder. However, new homes are also at risk: even legally “lead-free” plumbing may contain up to 8 percent lead. The most common problem is with brass or chrome-plated brass faucets and fixtures which can leach significant amounts of lead into the water, especially hot water."

Always run your cold water a little to flush the water from the pipes. And think about it you will be concentrating the crap even more with the boil off
 
nicksteck said:
Living and brewing in Minnesota can be cold, i brew in my garage and hook up to my outside garden hose, the water temp in the house is about 47 degrees, by the time it hits the garage it's about 38-40 degrees. so that means i have to heat my water about 70-80 degrees to brew and about 140 to clean.

i found this outside faucet and the local plumbing shop and thought it would save a lot time on brew day. i tested my hot water in the house and it was 121 degrees, i may drop 10 degrees but it's still better than 40.

hose_001.JPG



hose_002.JPG



hose_003.JPG



hose_004.JPG
Click to expand...

How does this thing work?
 
It looks like you pipe your cold water to one copper pipe and your hot water (from your HWT) to the other. Then just turn the knob in the direction of the water you want (hot or cold). Pretty cool.

I have used hot water in my boil with no issues. I have a new tank in a house built in 1974, but it has copper pipes.
 
Brewme said:
It looks like you pipe your cold water to one copper pipe and your hot water (from your HWT) to the other. Then just turn the knob in the direction of the water you want (hot or cold). Pretty cool.

I have used hot water in my boil with no issues. I have a new tank in a house built in 1974, but it has copper pipes.
Click to expand...

with 60/40 tin/lead solder at all the joints. It's a bad idea using hot tap water.
 
springer said:
EPA lead
"Lead is rarely found in source water, but enters tap water through corrosion of plumbing materials. Homes built before 1986 are more likely to have lead pipes, fixtures and solder. However, new homes are also at risk: even legally “lead-free” plumbing may contain up to 8 percent lead. The most common problem is with brass or chrome-plated brass faucets and fixtures which can leach significant amounts of lead into the water, especially hot water."

Always run your cold water a little to flush the water from the pipes. And think about it you will be concentrating the crap even more with the boil off
Click to expand...

Dig around enough and you will always find a link to argue either side. Not going to post the link but, FEMA even suggests using the hot tank water for drinking. Meh.

Do you drink coffee at restaurants or from the commercial maker at work? Those have what is essentially a boiler in them, do you think they are any safer than your Hot Tank?

Not worth arguing about. Sure, I will concede that there are prolly trace amounts of lead to found in the water but, if the levels were THAT high to be a health hazard I guarantee you the EPA would not sit idly by.
 
I don't think brewing with hot water is bad. I think if your water heater is full of calcium build up it may not be so bad if you are an English ale maker. Not so good with pilsners though.

You are boiling all of the water. Right?

I would think you can get some sediment flushed out by doing this.
  1. Kill the heater circuit breaker.
  2. Shut off the water in spigot.
  3. Drain the heater and leave the valve open.
  4. Open the in spigot to flush loose sediment. (couple minutes)
  5. Close the drain valve.
  6. Power On to the heater.
Carbon filteration or RO water treatments might be good for the incoming water supply. I think that if you are an AG brewer skip the RO. I think it strips to much out of the water.

My city water: 315ppm disolved solids (NaCl)
Carbon filtered: 150ppm
Reverse Osmosis: 25ppm
DI: 10ppm or less

RO will also lower the pH about 1 full point 7pH >> 6pH
 
GilaMinumBeer said:
Dig around enough and you will always find a link to argue either side. Not going to post the link but, FEMA even suggests using the hot tank water for drinking. Meh.

Do you drink coffee at restaurants or from the commercial maker at work? Those have what is essentially a boiler in them, do you think they are any safer than your Hot Tank?

Not worth arguing about. Sure, I will concede that there are prolly trace amounts of lead to found in the water but, if the levels were THAT high to be a health hazard I guarantee you the EPA would not sit idly by.
Click to expand...

Dude a commercial coffer maker has no lead in it its all stainless steel. The boiler isn't what makes the lead its the lead in the soldered joints of the copper pipes.

EPA sit idly by? they are the ones who pushed Congress to outlaw the use of lead in 1986 in solder.

Now if you said you were using a SS on demand water heater with no lead solder used in the plumbing I would agree .

yes FEMA does say to drink Hot tank water but you are taking it out of context . After a natural disaster like Katrina they tell people to turn off the main and use the water from their water heaters for drinking. Not to do it on a regular basis

I will post the link to FEMA FEMA: Guidelines for Managing Water Supplies
 
And just a side note while it may save some time to use hot water instead but how does it save money? Unless the energy is free to heat your domestic water you are still heating up X amount of cold water whether its in the house or on the burner.
 
Never said the boiler ion a coffee maker had lead but, it does still concentrate in the SAME CONTEXT as your water tank citation. But in a much smaller volume. Of course pre-filtration helps and that can be done with the hot tanks too.

And the FEMA point stresses that if the level were a health concern they would not advocate using it, now would they?

To further my point, if the EPA were THAT concerned about lead levels in the hot side they would regulate that all the hot side systems be label "Non Potable". Dude.
 
springer said:
And just a side note while it may save some time to use hot water instead but how does it save money? Unless the energy is free to heat your domestic water you are still heating up X amount of cold water whether its in the house or on the burner.
Click to expand...

I'm guessing the electricity is cheaper and more convenient.
 
springer said:
And just a side note while it may save some time to use hot water instead but how does it save money? Unless the energy is free to heat your domestic water you are still heating up X amount of cold water whether its in the house or on the burner.
Click to expand...

I don't think anybody said it saves money - someone said it saves propane.
 
GilaMinumBeer said:
Never said the boiler ion a coffee maker had lead but, it does still concentrate in the SAME CONTEXT as your water tank citation. But in a much smaller volume. Of course pre-filtration helps and that can be done with the hot tanks too.
The water going in is cold less chance of lead leaching into it. And the hot water never touches anything containing lead unless it a super old unit

And the FEMA point stresses that if the level were a health concern they would not advocate using it, now would they?
Again the hot water never comes into contact with lead they advise you to open the drain on the tank .Even if there were a small amount in 40 gallons it wouldn't kill you but dehydration will

To further my point, if the EPA were THAT concerned about lead levels in the hot side they would regulate that all the hot side systems be label "Non Potable". Dude.
Click to expand...

But the fact is they recommend not to use hot water for cooking and or drinking. Why take the risk?

I guess we should just agree to disagree .
 
The biggest argument I have against using hot water is you can't use a carbon filter with hot water.

My hot water occasionally gives me a sulfur or iron smell. I spoke to a water softener company about it because I am on a well with a softener. He said that build up of sediment and other minerals in the hot water will occasionally give a sulfur, rotten egg or metal smell and that I can purge them by doing as a previous poster said. Drain tank and refill a few times to flush sediment out.

Here is a little history on my brewing with my well water.

1. Hot water from the water softener = fast heat up times. 125 to 152 only takes a few minutes. Beer was OK
2. Cold water from softener, stranded filter. Beer got better
3. Cold water, bypass softener, carbon filter, 5.2 ph salts. Beer is best I have made.

I use electric heat exchangers to heat both my mash and my HLT water. Now I have learned to set-up 2 hours early and just let them run, or if I am in a pinch, I preheat in my boil kettle, drain into a bucket then pour into the tuns and let everything stabilize.

Linc
 
springer said:
But the fact is they recommend not to use hot water for cooking and or drinking. Why take the risk?

I guess we should just agree to disagree .
Click to expand...

Fair enough. I just don;t agree with the logic regardless of the EPA statement. Out of curiosity, I sent an email question to NSF International. I will post the non-edited response regardless of outcome.
 
missing link said:
My hot water occasionally gives me a sulfur or iron smell. I spoke to a water softener company about it because I am on a well with a softener. He said that build up of sediment and other minerals in the hot water will occasionally give a sulfur, rotten egg or metal smell and that I can purge them by doing as a previous poster said. Drain tank and refill a few times to flush sediment out.Linc
Click to expand...

I may also suggest you find out how to inspect your Anode. If it is significantly coated or corroded, it too will increase the potential for sulfuric odors.
 
my nat. gas water heater is about 8 years old, I'm on city water that is very clean. i replumbed my house with copper and 95/5 solder at the same time as the water tank and my brew rig is also nat. gas. the point of going with the hot water was to save time not energy.

i would asume that it will be nice to have cold, warm or hot water for a brew day. with 3 brew rigs in a garage in the middle of winter there is always some clean-up.

after reading all the reply's i am concerned about the fresh flux in the pipes, i think i will run a good 40 gallons through the valve before i brew with the water.
 
how much was that thing? i don't care about lead, i worked on nuke reactor's for the navy so i have enought lead, radiation, asbestoes, and other things that something from the hot water heater isn't gonna worry me.

actually will be good for my horses too.

dave
 
Originally Posted by missing link
My hot water occasionally gives me a sulfur or iron smell. I spoke to a water softener company about it because I am on a well with a softener. He said that build up of sediment and other minerals in the hot water will occasionally give a sulfur, rotten egg or metal smell and that I can purge them by doing as a previous poster said. Drain tank and refill a few times to flush sediment out.
Click to expand...
GilaMinumBeer said:
I may also suggest you find out how to inspect your Anode. If it is significantly coated or corroded, it too will increase the potential for sulfuric odors.
Click to expand...


This is absolutely true. Copper anodes can put off a real bad sulfuric odors in water with low pH. This is especially true if you use RO or DI water.

The RO or DI is so pure molecularly the that sulfur ions in the copper will leach out into the water attaching to oxygen molecules. They have an affinity to attach to something. It just happens that the copper will give off sulfur. The water is so pure that it starts dissolving the copper. The end result is that it will smell like rotten eggs.

Low pH water has the same effect as RO or DI in dissolving copper.

So yes, if it smells like sulfur yank out the anode and plug the hole with plug fitting.
 
brew day went well, the outdoor temp was about 25-35 degrees today, water into the brew rig was about 95 degrees. nice to have warm water for cleaning, turned to cold for chilling.

worth the money
 

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