Best change early on?

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Jonobie

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My brewing partner & I just finished our first two homebrews (an Amber & a Stout) and are starting to brew up our next batch of two.

I'm wondering: What is the first change you made early in your brewing that had the biggest impact?

Examples (non-exclusive): Changing from plastic buckets to glass carboys, using aeration stones, going to partial- or full-grain brewing, controlling the fermentation temperature more closely, crash cooling (not that I even really know what that is), doing (or stopping doing) secondary fermentation etc., making yeast starters, etc.

Our setup is Plastic buckets (with spigots on the bottom) for fermentation & then into a keg for force carb'ing and serving. Our sum total of "special equipment" is a wort chiller (love it!) and an autosiphon (which I'm looking forward to using next time).
 
There's no question to me, it's ferm control. Best thing to spend money on early on, and best thing to master first. I'd take plastic buckets right off your list entirely - that's a question of preference and has nothing to do with advancement - some of the best brewers in the world still swear by plastic buckets.

I'd say master your fermentation control, then go to yeast starters, then add some partial mashing.
 
wort chiller, then going electric (manual) so I could brew indoors, then getting a ferm-chamber setup, then getting a larger BK (e-keggle), then getting a larger fermenter (14g HDPE drum).
 
Since there is two of you, why don't you split up the research and bring two new elements at once! You take ferm control and he/she takes yeast starters or vice versa and you guys implement two really nice upgrades at once!
 
Quality-wise, I'd say going All-grain for sure - control over the whole process will give you the results YOU want and is quite a bit cheaper once you amortized the cost of the gear.

Also, I'd say, getting a much larger boil kettle (Sanke), and adding a ball valve to it! No more lifting up heavy (and boiling) stuff!

Then, a ferm chamber with a controller. (I use a converted cooler I wanted to use as a Keezer...)



After that, it's just a matter of saving time - I migrated over from an IC to a plate chiller and pump and the pump does open up a lot of doors.

(The plate chiller was more of an investment in 'environmentally-friendly' devices - the IC wasted way too much water for my tastes. But damn, those fittings are expensive!)
 
+1 temp control for fermentation. It doesn't have to be fancy - search "swamp cooler" for a cheap method.

A yeast starter will make a big difference if you start trying to brew higher alcohol beers. It helps with consistency for most batches, but is really important for Big Beers.

FYI - crash cooling is just cooling the beer down to just above freezing and leaving it there for a couple days. You would need a fridge or similar to do that. It causes yeast and sediment to drop out of the beer so you have a clear finished product. That is going to happen eventually just with gravity, but it happens much faster in cold temps.
 
Going All-grain for sure - control over the whole process will give you the results YOU want.

Then, I'd say, getting a much larger boil kettle (Sanke), then adding a ball valve to it! No more lifting up heavy (and boiling) stuff!

After that, it's just a matter of time - I migrated over from an IC to a plate chiller and pump and the pump does open up a lot of doors.

(The plate chiller was more of an investment in 'environmentally-friendly' devices - the IC wasted way too much water for my tastes. But damn, those fittings are expensive!)

I disagree with this. Maybe if we were back in time several years ago, but today's extracts are fabulous and you can make nearly as good of beer as all grain - and someone still new to the craft will likely make much better extract than all grain. All grain is a much larger investment and although it's a logical step if one decides to progress, to say you'll get better improvement from moving from extract to all grain before you get ferm control under control, and learn about the process overall is crazy to me.
 
J187 said:
Since there is two of you, why don't you split up the research and bring two new elements at once! You take ferm control and he/she takes yeast starters or vice versa and you guys implement two really nice upgrades at once!

Partner here, finally registered. One step ahead of you - have a yeast starter going for our next batch (which we're doing on Saturday). Fun process, making mini-beer. Haven't gone for a stir plate yet, just using a growler and shaking it, but seems to still be quite effective at breeding yeast.
 
Partner here, finally registered. One step ahead of you - have a yeast starter going for our next batch (which we're doing on Saturday). Fun process, making mini-beer. Haven't gone for a stir plate yet, just using a growler and shaking it, but seems to still be quite effective at breeding yeast.

Perfect!! Go for the stir-plate next. Really easy to build, VERY EFFECTIVE!!!
 
There's no question to me, it's ferm control. Best thing to spend money on early on, and best thing to master first. I'd take plastic buckets right off your list entirely - that's a question of preference and has nothing to do with advancement - some of the best brewers in the world still swear by plastic buckets.

I'd say master your fermentation control, then go to yeast starters, then add some partial mashing.

Is fermentation control largely about temperature control? Our first two beers were pretty low-alcohol content (3% or so), but I'm not quite sure what caused that, precisely. We've been putting the buckets either in my garage (which I think might have been too chilly, the temp strip read about 58 on my latest brew) or inside my basement (which is more steady at around 66-68).
 
I disagree with this. Maybe if we were back in time several years ago, but today's extracts are fabulous and you can make nearly as good of beer as all grain - and someone still new to the craft will likely make much better extract than all grain. All grain is a much larger investment and although it's a logical step if one decides to progress, to say you'll get better improvement from moving from extract to all grain before you get ferm control under control, and learn about the process overall is crazy to me.

It's not so much quality as it is control. You can't control the fermentability of LME. Steeping a few pounds of grain is fine, but what if you have 8 specialty malts that add up to a large amount of weight? You might not be able to steep those (and if you are, you're practically mashing at that point). It's not "better" it's preference.
 
Is fermentation control largely about temperature control? Our first two beers were pretty low-alcohol content (3% or so), but I'm not quite sure what caused that, precisely. We've been putting the buckets either in my garage (which I think might have been too chilly, the temp strip read about 58 on my latest brew) or inside my basement (which is more steady at around 66-68).

Yes, fermenation control is all about the temp. For ales, holding steady somewhere between 65-70 is good. 65-68 is a maybe on the better end of the spectrum and the important thing is consistency - you don't want temp swings.
 
Is fermentation control largely about temperature control? Our first two beers were pretty low-alcohol content (3% or so), but I'm not quite sure what caused that, precisely. We've been putting the buckets either in my garage (which I think might have been too chilly, the temp strip read about 58 on my latest brew) or inside my basement (which is more steady at around 66-68).

The thing is, you rarely can control the environmental temperature perfectly in a "room". Add to that, fermentation is an exothermic process that creates heat in and of itself. So now the beer is 10 degrees warmer because of it's own heat, which can push you WAY out of the temp range you need to be in, causing off flavors to manifest themselves.

Get a fridge or freezer off craigslist for cheap. Then build a simple STC-1000 temp controller that comes with a probe, taped to the side of the fermenter to monitor the beer temp inside and adjust the temp accordingly.

Total cost probably under $100 if you score the fridge cheap enough. Hey, if the thermostat doesn't work on the fridge (ie. they say it either freezes or is too warm) that's fine, too. The temp controller will handle that for you anyway. As long as the fridge can cool...
 
It's not so much quality as it is control. You can't control the fermentability of LME. Steeping a few pounds of grain is fine, but what if you have 8 specialty malts that add up to a large amount of weight? You might not be able to steep those (and if you are, you're practically mashing at that point). It's not "better" it's preference.

If you are worried about the difference between converting starches in steeping grain or not, before you have figured out to keep your fermentation at the proper range, then there's a lot more to be done before you jump into AG brewing. There is plenty of control in extract brewers for a great many beers to be made to garner the experience necessary. There are plenty of steeping grains and other ways to control recipes than always having to mash munich.
 
Big benefits from:
Using a stirplate for the starters.
Using pure O2 to oxygenate the wort.
Maintaining proper temperature for the beer as it ferments (whatever method you need to use). It's also important to get a correct reading of the wort that's fermenting. IMO, fermometers (that stick on the outside of the fermenter) are of little use. I have a thermowell that goes into the fermenter which I send a sensor into. I then plug up the opening so that the temperature inside the thermowell IS the same as the wort it's in. That way I KNOW what's going on inside the fermenter. Which is the only true way to know with the fermenters I use (see next item).
Moving away from carboys and not using buckets (did two batches in buckets, never again). I ferment in adapted tall 1/4 bbl sanke kegs most of the time. I also have a 50L sanke that's been adapted for fermenting.
Using PBW to clean everything that needs to be. A soak in PBW solution, either over night or just a few hours, does wonders.
Star San for sanitizing.
Using filtered water to brew with. Basically, NOT needing to buy many gallons of water without chlorine (or other nasty things) in it is huge. IMO, if you won't gladly drink the water, don't brew (or cook) with it.

Things that make actual brewing better/easier.
Quality thermometers. I'm now using a Fluke 52II with sensors that I connect to it. I have several that can be fully submerged without issue (stainless around the wires to protect from heat). I use these in the mash tun (either one or two spots during the mash), in the boil keggle (mostly for during the chill) and have one that gives me a reading of the wort as it comes out of the plate chiller.
Refractometers. Again, quality of product is key. I have three that I'll use (not using the first one I got) for either beer or mead. I use them to get an OG and then FG reading. I can also use them during the mash to see what the SG numbers are. Not needing to worry about the temperature of the wort being tested is bigger than you might think. Also, you can take readings FAST. Not something you'll do with a hydrometer since you'll need to cool the sample down first. Also, refractometers won't roll off the table and break on you. Unlike hydrometers.
Getting your own grain mill once you've gone either all grain, or are doing partial mash batches.

IMO, going all grain is more about ingredient/recipe control these days. I want to know, with 100% certainty, what's going into my batch. With extract, it's virtually impossible to know exactly what's in it. Maltsters might call an extract the same thing, but have different grains in it. While some companies will make the break-down available to you, not all do. It's also about freshness of the ingredient. With crushing your grain on brew day, and properly storing it before then, you KNOW it's as fresh as it can be. With extract, it's not so easy. Sure, some places have a high enough turnaround that you'll get pretty fresh ingredients. But, I'd still rather mash my own grain.

BTW, I'm fermenting in the basement where I live. It's been ranging from 58-62F for the past month. With the sensor in my fermenter, I'm not worried. Especially since I can always setup a swamp cooler on the quick IF needed.
 
+1 for fermentation control.

An "upgrade" that I made at some point that's really just about gaining a little perspective on the beer was just being more patient about everything, most importantly:

- Don't rush fermentation. If you secondary, don't rack as soon as the airlock stops bubbling. I secondary (for improved clarity) but I wait at least two and usually three weeks to rack from the primary.
- Don't rush to drink your beer once it's in bottles. I know it's hard, but two weeks is, in my experience, almost never enough time for the beer to really hit its stride. I try a bottle at two weeks, but it's almost always still "young", so I wait another week or two and try one more. Usually at 4-6 weeks it's really in its prime, and then it's a joy to drink. Of course, it gets easier to gain this kind of calm, contemplative outlook when you've got several previous batches ready to drink. Don't worry, you'll get there.
 
wort chiller, making appropriate sized starters, and most importantly fermentation temp control
 
And to the OP - regarding the suggestions of wort chiller, which is a great thing, I would just like to point out to you that it's much less useful or important if you are an extract brewer doing partial boils. If you do full boils or brew AG, it's important - for 2.5 gallons of wort, an ice bath is perfectly good.
 
And to the OP - regarding the suggestions of wort chiller, which is a great thing, I would just like to point out to you that it's much less useful or important if you are an extract brewer doing partial boils. If you do full boils or brew AG, it's important - for 2.5 gallons of wort, an ice bath is perfectly good.

He already has a wort chiller.
 
If you are worried about the difference between converting starches in steeping grain or not, before you have figured out to keep your fermentation at the proper range, then there's a lot more to be done before you jump into AG brewing. There is plenty of control in extract brewers for a great many beers to be made to garner the experience necessary. There are plenty of steeping grains and other ways to control recipes than always having to mash munich.

I'm just talking about the total control factor that AG gives you. Nothing more. I didn't put priority on anything over another. Not sure where you're getting that impression.
 
Extract --> Brew In a Bag --> DIY Mash Tun --> DIY Hot Lauter - Mash Tun System

Anything after that is going to cost me some dough. Im still bottling. I love choices and my friends do too.

Eventually something fermentation chamber related- followed by a better tiered system with larger kettles to do the work
 
I'm just talking about the total control factor that AG gives you. Nothing more. I didn't put priority on anything over another. Not sure where you're getting that impression.

In the context of the thread... The question was the next best step. All grain shouldn't even be a mention or a consideration if he's not yet actively controlling his fermentation temperature.
 
In the context of the thread... The question was the next best step. All grain shouldn't even be a mention or a consideration if he's not yet actively controlling his fermentation temperature.

I agree. I was just commenting on why people DO choose to go to AG.
 
In the context of the thread... The question was the next best step. All grain shouldn't even be a mention or a consideration if he's not yet actively controlling his fermentation temperature.

IMO, you're full of it. I did all of three extract (with steeping grains) batches before one partial mash (BIAB) before going all grain. I've progressed from BIAB to a cooler mash tun to now a keggle mash tun (direct fire on a Blichmann burner).

IF he can maintain the correct, or desired, temperature range for the yeast being used, who cares how it's done? I don't have a fermentation chamber, but I also don't need one. There are plenty of people brewing great beers without fermentation chambers.

IF I could do things over again, I'd skip over BIAB and using coolers for mash tuns and go directly to keggles for the boil and mash tun. I would also not get the Bayou burner again, but go directly to the two Blichmann burners (that I now have).

Also, IMO/IME, a pure O2 system is far more important than a fermentation chamber. Doubly so if he can keep the yeast happy (temperature wise). Hell, making sure your water is great for brewing is far more important than a fermentation chamber.
 
The main reason I have a ferm chamber is because I don't have a room in my house that stays a constant temperature. The basement is somewhat buffered from external temp changes, but in the winter it's in the high 50's for a month or two, too cold for some ale strains. In the summer it's in the high 60's to low 70's and a swamp cooler can't apply cooling right when it's needed unless I'm standing there watching a thermometer and adding ice bottles.

My probe taped to the side isn't perfect, but it's closer than I ever was before by far (closet->basement->swamp cooler). I see/hear my fridge working hard during the peak of fermentation even though the ambient air in there is 40*, because the probe is picking up a much higher temp from the beer. If that was just a room set to 60* I'd have beer going from 60 to 70 back down to 60 again. Plus, I can lager, cold crash, anything I want just by changing one setting on the display.

Harvesting yeast, making starters (or not depending on when harvested and using tools like yeastcalc and mrmalty) along with ferm temp controls have improved not only the quality, but the turnaround time on my beers.
 
If you are going to stick with extract, then (after temp control or really at the same time since it costs nothing extra) try doing late extract additions. This is adding 1/3 - 1/2 of the extract right away and then the remining at 10 minutes left in the boil, some do it at flame out. This will help your beer by reducing malliard reactions in the boil. These reactions cause darkening of the wort and higher level caramel flavors that can be off-flavors for lighter beers.
 
IMO, you're full of it. I did all of three extract (with steeping grains) batches before one partial mash (BIAB) before going all grain. I've progressed from BIAB to a cooler mash tun to now a keggle mash tun (direct fire on a Blichmann burner).

IF he can maintain the correct, or desired, temperature range for the yeast being used, who cares how it's done? I don't have a fermentation chamber, but I also don't need one. There are plenty of people brewing great beers without fermentation chambers.

IF I could do things over again, I'd skip over BIAB and using coolers for mash tuns and go directly to keggles for the boil and mash tun. I would also not get the Bayou burner again, but go directly to the two Blichmann burners (that I now have).

Also, IMO/IME, a pure O2 system is far more important than a fermentation chamber. Doubly so if he can keep the yeast happy (temperature wise). Hell, making sure your water is great for brewing is far more important than a fermentation chamber.

First of all who said anything about a fermentation chamber? I said he should understand and have at least some control over his fermentation temp, Rather than leaving it at the mercy of ambient temperature. Secondly, I'm full of it? Nice... I knew eventually I would encounter at least one ignorant person on here, I'm just glad it took so long before the first. Nice way to have a constructive conversation, pretty sad when your people skills are so bad you can't even conduct yourself with dignity over a computer....

And regardless of what worked for you, I think the overwhelming majority would agree, that when you currently haven't even given consideration to the control of your ferm temps - ice bath, blanket, fermwrap, fridge, evaporating wet sock - whatever, the LAST thing that you should put on your priority list should be to switch to all grain. I'm not saying everyone should stay extract for a year or more, but two batches done AND he's on a forum asking what the next step he should take to become better at brewing and you think it's to dive into all grain, THEN you question MY logic!? :rolleyes:
 
I'm a she, not a he. :) Though my brewing partner is male. And has a beard, no less, which seems to be required for brewing.

So around fermenting temps, it would seem like swamp cooler would be only minimally better than a room for controlling temp, right? I mean, assuming I'm not at home during the day to keep things wet. [Edit: And, for me, the problem has been the reverse-- I think the garage was too cold, not too hot. Which definitely seems to imply a fridge indoors.]

So maybe something fridge-like is the right next step...
 
I'm still new. But if I Knew Then What I Know Now, I would have built a fermentation chamber before my first brew. I expect I will keep brewing extract for quite a while though, at least until I start turning out beer good enough that I feel like the added complexity of AG process will benefit me, not add more problems.
 
" [Edit: And, for me, the problem has been the reverse-- I think the garage was too cold, not too hot. Which definitely seems to imply a fridge indoors.]"

They sell various heaters to warm beer. Lots of people also use aquarium heaters for their swamp cooler. You've gotta be somewhere close to the right temp for those though. You aren't going to go from 30 to 65 with a tiny heater.

Also, you can heat and cool in a fridge/freezer. It is just an insulated box. If you stick a little heater in there, it will hold temps pretty well. My fermentation chamber is in my "basement". The house is on a hill, so half is basement and half is above ground. It will get down to the 40's in winter and up to around 80 in summer. A little "seed starter" mat from a gardening store has no trouble holding mid-60's.
 
I disagree with this. Maybe if we were back in time several years ago, but today's extracts are fabulous and you can make nearly as good of beer as all grain - and someone still new to the craft will likely make much better extract than all grain. All grain is a much larger investment and although it's a logical step if one decides to progress, to say you'll get better improvement from moving from extract to all grain before you get ferm control under control, and learn about the process overall is crazy to me.

Today's extracts might be fabulous but as a comparison, I buy 2-row in bulk for 36$/25kg bag and 22.7kg of malt extract is somewhere between 115$-170$ (yikes). At the lowest $ of the scale, that's 5$/kg. If I convert grain to extract with a ratio of 0.6, that'd be 2.4$/kg. Less than double the price.

Therefore, let's say you wanna go all grain and buy a bag of 2-row... 36$, you're left with 80$ to buy a cooler, bulkhead and a burner. Won't take too many batches to get your money's worth. Of course, if you go all out, things get expensive fast but excellent beer has been made with turkey fryers.

Oh. I almost forgot about mashing and roasting grains. That's a good way to control the final product.

On my second batch ever, after a Cooper kit, I went all grain and made a big scotch ale (Skullsplitter clone) with about 100$ worth of equipment. Went great and never looked back.

Obviously, controlling the fermentation temperature is something that is assumed to be needed from the start (hence, why I suggested it in the first place?), with any beer-making technique you deem best. I don't think 'closely', as the OP said, makes much of a difference when you're starting up - unless your fermenters are stored in very unstable environnements and you actually mastered every step preceding it.

Maybe I AM crazy. :mug:
 
I'm a she, not a he. :) Though my brewing partner is male. And has a beard, no less, which seems to be required for brewing.

So around fermenting temps, it would seem like swamp cooler would be only minimally better than a room for controlling temp, right? I mean, assuming I'm not at home during the day to keep things wet. [Edit: And, for me, the problem has been the reverse-- I think the garage was too cold, not too hot. Which definitely seems to imply a fridge indoors.]

So maybe something fridge-like is the right next step...

It depends, a swamp cooler can actually be very effective! In a fairly large container, you can increase the thermal mass of the fermenter by a great deal. Remember, let's say you have a bucket - the thermal mass factor of that bucket is pretty much the 5 gallons of wort inside, plus the insulation effect of the bucket. If you drop that bucket into another 10 gallons of water in a rubbermaid tub, now that thermal mass is much larger - the entire volume of water has to change temp in order to change the temp of the wort. So, not only does a swamp cooler help you to control temp by giving you water to heat or cool, but it also allows you to maintain a steady temp for a long period of time - as an example, once you've cooled the water to 65 deg, in an 80 degree garage it will take several hours to drop that 65 deg significantly, and by that time, you are likely home from work to add more ice, or whatever. Obviously ferm chamber/fridge is better, but swamp cooler is very effective on the cheap and in the short term.
 
The only disadvantage to a swamp cooler is that the beer is heating itself significantly during fermentation. The buffer helps slow changes in temp from ambient temps outside of the fermenter, but the beer has a little heater of it's own on the inside. It's difficult to know exactly when it's applying a lot of heat without some sort of probe telling you the beer temp. If it happens while you're at work, you can't do much about it.

That said, many people use them with good results. I think learning the different stages of fermentation and the temperature swings that typically accompany them is key for this type of setup. That way you can catch the beer right as it wants to increase temps and add frozen water bottles at that time.
 
I'll join the chorus of people saying that temperature control is key. It seems that swamp coolers work well for many, but if you have the space for it, an old fridge and a Johnson Controls box is much easier to use and also allows you to brew lagers. You can set up the controller to run a brew belt or similar heater when needed as well. A really good investment, in my opinion.

Also, someone else mentioned an O2 system, but I think that depends on what you brew. It might be helpful if you like really big beers, but I tend not to stray above 1.065 and just pouring the wort through a strainer on the way into the fermenter works just fine. Never had a stalled fermentation or any off flavor that would indicate that my yeast is unhappy.
 
Also, someone else mentioned an O2 system, but I think that depends on what you brew. It might be helpful if you like really big beers, but I tend not to stray above 1.065 and just pouring the wort through a strainer on the way into the fermenter works just fine. Never had a stalled fermentation or any off flavor that would indicate that my yeast is unhappy.

I use a stick-blender. Granted the air I'm introducing isn't pure, but it whips some serious bubbles into the wort. Easy to sanitize the attachment prior to use as well.
 
At this point,I'd def have to say that controlling ferment temps in any fashion one can is the first,best improvement. Which goes hand in hand with chilling the wort to pitch temp in 20 minutes or less to reduce/elliminate chill haze later.
Going all grain,kegging,crash cooling...all that...is not an improvement,it's a choice of brewing style/process.
What's far more important is getting a good process down that'll comsistently make good beer. With a good process,it will not matter whether it's extract,extract/steeping grains,partial mash,or AG. I f you made bad extract beers,but think your AG is way better,that's a faulty process. Not bad beer ingredients. Blame the brewer,not the brew. It doesn't know any better.
I've made some damn good ales recombining extracts with different hops,etc. Yes,my PM kit smelled cleaner...maybe just fresher. But in the end,if you don't have a good process,you're gunna suck no matter what. I think some brewers get on here & stretch the truth a little when switching brewing styles after bad previous performances. Fearing that they'll look bad to fellow brewers in a public forum or something.
 
Changing from glass carboys to plastic buckets for primary fermentation (only use them for secondary now) and paying attention to fermentation temps with a swamp cooler.

Buckets are super easy to use, clean, transport.
 
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