Help me with my free beer recipe!

Here's the deal. I have a bunch of ingredients I need to get rid of. The reason for this is because I've had them for so long, I wouldn't trust them in a specific recipe. So instead of throwing them out, I figure I would just throw them together and see what I come up with. However, I figure I would like to ask for others to help me some what craft this recipe if at all possible. I will list the ingredients and approximate quantities. Let me know what your thinking and I give it a shot. In addition, I will make every attempt to post updates along the way.
I'm thinking I want to brew this weekend if at all possible. Keep in mind these ingredients are pretty old (roughly Feb./05). I don't care if you don't think it will result in anything, I just figure I would give it a shot anyways. The worst that can happen is it's junk and needs to be dumped.
With that being said, here goes.

Whole Grains (Briess uncrushed):
1 lb 2 Row Pale Malt
3.4L
3 lb Wheat Malt
2.2L
1 lb Munich Malt
10L

Dried Malt Extract (Mutons):
3 lb Plan Wheat (55% Wheat/45% Barley)
"color - typically 9 ebc" per package

Other Fermentables:
1 lb Belgian Candy
#1 Clear
~1 lb Flaked Oats
Older than Feb. 05


Pellet Hops (vacuum sealed and unopened):
2 oz. Hallertau
3.8%
1 oz. Cascade
5.7%
1 oz. Kent Goldings
3.3%

Pellet Hops (opened but in ziplock bags with air sucked out manually)
~.75 oz. Northern Brewer
7.6%
~.5 oz. Styrian Golding
6%
~.5 oz. Liberity
4.1%
Yeast (expired but refrigerated):
(2) Trappist Ale WLP-500
Exp. Date - Aug. 17, 2007

I have misc. stuff like yeast nuterient, lactose, untoasted oak chips and coriander seeds.

I suppose the ideas might be limited because of the available yeast (or lack there of, sorry) but I don't want to go and buy any more ingredients.

I tend to like less hoppy beers. However, I have carboys to do 1,3 and 5 gallon batchs. So if you think I could do a 1 gallon recipe of one thing (crazy stuff) and a 5 gallon one of another (less crazy), let me know. I want to try something different which is why I'm coming here. If I try to come up with something on my own, I'm too tempted to try and make something I normally do.

Give me your thoughts and ideas, please.

I think that your best bet is to do all of the grain and extract and some hops in 1 five gallon batch. There is no way to use all of that stuff without ending up with a really hoppy and probably not very tasty brew.

You don't have to have a recipe, with that much "leftover" you must have a few brews under your belt. Go for it!

Imperial Wheat?

Here's what you do:

Go to TastyBrew.com, bring up the recipe calculator, and enter all your fermentables. It will first show you the color prediction, both in SRM's and in color on your computer screen.

Figure out which hop variety you like the most, enter the amount which gives you the desired IBU's, and then brew this bad boy!

If you make a balanced brew, ain't no such thing as junk beer. It's still beer!

I'm sorry...I didn't mean that I had to use every last part of my existing quantities. I just want to be able to get rid of a lot of it.

It sounds like you have a partial mash, big hefeweizenish beer fermented with Trappist ale yeast and spiced with a bit of coriander. The Belgian notes that you get from that yeast could be quite nice.

I'd go nuts and mash all the grains and then add all that DME. Hop with the Hallertauer and, if neccesary, EKG. Add a little bit if coriander at 15 mins.

I'd just toss out the flaked oats. Check those opened hops, but I don't get too excited about two year old, opened hops that haven't been vaccuum sealed. I thought a little bit about the candi sugar, but that just seems a little weird to add. You'll find something to do with that sooner or later.


TL

How about this for one recipe?
http://hbd.org/cgi-bin/recipator/recipator?9403517#tag
Here it is if you cant see it.

3gal white possibility
Style: Belgian White (Wit)
Type: Partial mash Size: 3 gallons
Color: 3 HCU (~3 SRM)
Bitterness: 20 IBU
OG: 1.047 FG: 1.007
Alcohol: 5.2% v/v (4.1% w/w)

Grain: 3 lb. Wheat malt
Mash: 75% efficiency
Boil: minutes SG 1.035 4 gallons
1 lb. 8 oz. Wheat extract
Hops: .6 oz. Kent Goldings (3.3% AA, 45 min.)
.25 oz. Kent Goldings (3.3% AA, 30 min.)
.15 oz. Kent Goldings (3.3% AA, 15 min.)



Now, while creating this recipe, it asked about runoff amount. I understand it to a degree. The recipes I've done before were from detailed instruction. I entered an amount of 3 gallons. First, I know I'm going to have a problem with stuck mash from it being the only grain I'm mashing. Will this be good if I'm only mashing 3 lbs of wheat malt? I figure I'm going to need the most amount of water as possible right? Second, might I be able to combat this with rice hulls and lots of them?

The reason for this is because I really enjoy wits and I wanted to still have enough ingredients for a 5 gallon batch of something else.

What are your thoughts.

And finally I came up with a second recipe.
I originally came up with this dubbel but couldn't get the color right given my ingredients, so I canned the idea.

Style: Belgian Dubbel
Type: Partial mash Size: 3 gallons
Color: 7 HCU (~6 SRM)
Bitterness: 6 IBU
OG: 1.061 FG: 1.014
Alcohol: 6.0% v/v (4.7% w/w)

Grain:
1 lb. American 2-row
1 lb. American Munich
2 lb. Flaked wheat
Mash: 75% efficiency

Boil: ? minutes SG 1.046 4 gallons
8 oz. Belgian candi sugar
1 lb. 8 oz. Wheat extract

Hops: .25 oz. Liberty (4% AA, 60 min.)

Way too light in color.

Instead I was able to come up with the following recipe created on tastybrew.com because they had a saison category.

Recipe Calculation
19D. Belgian And French Ale, Saison Partial
Specifics
Boil Volume 3.5 gallons
Batch Size 2.5 gallons
Yeast WLP500 75% AA

Style Comparison
Low Recipe High
OG 1.055 1.061 1.080
FG 1.010 1.015 1.015
IBU 20 32 45
SRM 6 7 12
ABV 4.5 5.9 8.1

Fermentables
% Weight Weight (lbs) Grain Gravity Points Color
21.1 % 1.00 American Munich (Light) 9.9 4.0
21.1 % 1.00 American Two-row Pale 11.1 0.7
31.6 % 1.50 Wheat Dry Malt Extract 27.6 1.6
21.1 % 1.00 Flaked Oats 9.9 0.9
5.3 % 0.25 Flaked Wheat 2.6 0.2
4.75 61.1
Hops
% Wt(oz) Hop Form AA% AAU Boil Time Util IBU
33.3 % 0.50 N. Brewer Pellet 7.6 3.8 30 0.207 23.5
33.3 % 0.50 Liberty Pellet 4.0 2.0 5 0.054 3.2
33.3 % 0.50 Styrian Goldings Pellet 6.0 3.0 5 0.054 4.8
1.50 31.5

This recipe will call for all of the opened packages of hops I have. As I said, I'm not a big fan of really hoppy beers but 3 gallons isn't a big thing if it turns out too much. Besides, what are the chances that the hops have lost some of their punch since they have been opened for a short period of time? Should I compensate by adding .75oz Northern instead of the .5oz in the recipe if the time has really effected them?

*edited* - highlighted an area

Why limit yourself to what a style dictates?

I liked TexLaw's idea and zoe's comment...

Mash all the grain, use all the DME, and brew a bigger wheat beer - am I not mistaken or do most dubbels I try have some (or even a lot) of wheat to them anyway? Add some hints of a belgian/saison with the yeast, corriander, etc.

zoebisch01 said:

Why limit yourself to what a style dictates?

Click to expand...

Exactly! This is the perfect time to toss the style guidelines in a drawer and play a game of "Iron Brewer." It's beer, man. It's just beer, and it'll be good.


TL

Here was my stab I took in BeerSmith. If I had to brew and use as much as that stuff as possible, without brewing a hop/grain-suey recipe that used absolutely everything, I think this is what I would do. I put it in the Belgian Specialty category just b/c that seems pretty wide. You'll only have to pitch the old, probably poor hops and the oats. You can keep the vacuum packed cascades for another time...

Recipe weighs in around 1.055-1.062 range depending on mash efficiency (1.058 at 75%) and 24-25IBU range, so this definitely shouldn't be overly hoppy for you.

BeerSmith Recipe Printout - www.beersmith.com
Recipe: nduetime's trappist leftovers
Style: Belgian Specialty Ale
TYPE: Partial Mash

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Boil Size: 5.72 gal
Estimated OG: 1.058 SG
Estimated Color: 6.4 SRM
Estimated IBU: 23.7 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
3.00 lb Wheat Dry Extract (8.0 SRM) Dry Extract 35.3 %
3.00 lb Wheat Malt, Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 35.3 %
1.00 lb Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 11.8 %
1.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) Bel (3.0 SRM) Grain 11.8 %
1.00 oz Hallertauer [3.80%] (60 min) Hops 13.0 IBU
0.50 oz Goldings, East Kent [3.40%] (60 min) Hops 5.8 IBU
0.50 oz Hallertauer [3.80%] (10 min) Hops 2.4 IBU
0.50 oz Hallertauer [3.80%] (5 min) Hops 1.3 IBU
0.50 oz Goldings, East Kent [3.40%] (5 min) Hops 1.2 IBU
0.25 oz Coriander Seed (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
0.50 lb Candi Sugar, Clear (0.5 SRM) Sugar 5.9 %
1 Pkgs Trappist Ale (White Labs #WLP500) Yeast-Ale

EDIT: If you decide to brew this up, definitely let me know how it turns out! PM would be best b/c I probably won't find this thread in another 6 weeks.

So your suggesting that I go for one really big 5 gallon beer not knowing if it will be palatable or not instead of making two smaller 2.5-3 gallon beers that I know I would like?

I know it's my stuff and I'm the one making it, but I'm trying to understand why people are suggesting this?

Why would a 1.058OG beer with 24IBU be not palatable?!

I was just trying to formulate the best possible recipe for the one yeast you have - your main restriction. A 1.058 beer is not that "big" and with some of the typical belgian things thrown in (spices-corriander, belgian candi), I think it would turn out quite interesting and good.

You don't have to take our recommendations, but you asked!

SilkkyBrew said:

You don't have to take our recommendations, but you asked!

Click to expand...

Wow now...no one said I was not going to take your recommendations. I was only trying to figure out what way I should be going with this:

one big batch

or

two smaller batches

A bigger wheat beer (with all the grain and DME I have) sounds very good to me. I'm just trying to figure out if I want to make 5 gallons of it. For this reason, I've been leaning towards the smaller batches, more chances of getting something I'm going to really like.

Again, please don't think that I am throwing out your recommendations after asking you for them. I have a few more days to think about it and was hoping that I might be able to sift through some more ideas. If not, no big deal.

No problem, no offense taken here...

Do what you decide is best for you.

I just thought it would be much easier to brew one 5g batch since you are going through the trouble of mashing grain, etc. I mean, thats about a 5-6 hour process for most of us... If you brew two smaller batches, you still have the same time requirement but for both batches, plus additional time to make a starter for each batch and step it up, etc. since you only have one vial. So, more than likely you'll be spending 12+ hours to make the two batches or 5g total, when you could spend half that and still have a very palatable beer. But thats your call...

Also, you are spending those extra hours to brew 2.5g with old, old, not properly packaged hops. So, what you think you might be brewing, a "good" beer, might not even turn out so well. 6 hours down the tube.

The vacuum packed hops, uncrushed grain, etc. should still be pretty darn good, even after this long... I just thought one batch, all reliabile ingredients, was the smartest approach. We can alter the recipe a bit if you'd like. Cut out some DME so its not so "big". Cut out some hops so there is less aroma and less IBU. Etc.

nduetime said:

Wow now...no one said I was not going to take your recommendations. I was only trying to figure out what way I should be going with this:

one big batch

or

two smaller batches

Click to expand...

Cuz it's the unknown, and that's kinda fun!


TL

SilkkyBrew said:

We can alter the recipe a bit if you'd like. Cut out some DME so its not so "big". Cut out some hops so there is less aroma and less IBU. Etc.

Click to expand...

For discussions sake, if you omit the .5lb of Candi Sugar and .5 of Wheat DME from my recipe, as well as the 5 minute aroma hop additions you'd be left with a beer with these critical stats:

OG 1.050 (finishing predicted at 4.9%)
IBU of 22 (not very bitter)

It would probably be somewhat closer to what you'd expect out of a normal wheat-beer. However, the big variable here that I just can't attest to (b/c I never brewed a wheat with trappist yeast) is the yeast. I think it would turn out pretty good though, anyway you slice it. If you aren't satisifed, I could pay you to mail it to me?

Just do it...the particulars don't matter one iota. We brewed a leftovers beer back in September that used up all kinds of crap, including the dregs of a cherry wine. At one point, we were just standing over the kettle tearing open sugar packets.

When it was all said and done, people were asking for the recipe. But if for some reason it sucks, blend it. If it really sucks, eisbock it. But the most interesting stuff happens when you relax and brew by the seat of your pants.

RoaringBrewer said:

No problem, no offense taken here...

Do what you decide is best for you.

I just thought it would be much easier to brew one 5g batch since you are going through the trouble of mashing grain, etc. I mean, thats about a 5-6 hour process for most of us... If you brew two smaller batches, you still have the same time requirement but for both batches, plus additional time to make a starter for each batch and step it up, etc. since you only have one vial. So, more than likely you'll be spending 12+ hours to make the two batches or 5g total, when you could spend half that and still have a very palatable beer. But thats your call...

Also, you are spending those extra hours to brew 2.5g with old, old, not properly packaged hops. So, what you think you might be brewing, a "good" beer, might not even turn out so well. 6 hours down the tube.

The vacuum packed hops, uncrushed grain, etc. should still be pretty darn good, even after this long... I just thought one batch, all reliabile ingredients, was the smartest approach. We can alter the recipe a bit if you'd like. Cut out some DME so its not so "big". Cut out some hops so there is less aroma and less IBU. Etc.

Click to expand...

Actually I was going to try a new technique that I've been reading a little about, brewing in a bag. The time really doesn't factor into my situation considering I'm off work per doctors orders. I hear what your saying though. Don't get me wrong, you recipe sounds very good. I'm tempted to try it. Of course I'm still open to more suggestions and even open to the two recipes I've posted as well.

I have two vials of Trappist Ale Yeast (WLP500). This was another reason I had thought about doing two batchs.

When I said big beer, I was refering to the size and not the strength what I meant to say was big (5 Gallon) or small (2.5/3 gallon).

If...I decide to go with my saison recipe, I know you commented about the open hops. I asked at the bottom of that post if I should counter that by including the extra Northern hops (~.25oz remaining from what the recipe called for)? I guess what I'm trying to figure out is if there is a formula or rule of thumb that one can cite for the loss of AA of hops over time?

RoaringBrewer said:

Also, you are spending those extra hours to brew 2.5g with old, old, not properly packaged hops. So, what you think you might be brewing, a "good" beer, might not even turn out so well. 6 hours down the tube.

Click to expand...

One more question about this...if that's the case...wouldn't dry hoping take care of some of this?

nduetime said:

I guess what I'm trying to figure out is if there is a formula or rule of thumb that one can cite for the loss of AA of hops over time?

Click to expand...

Beersmith has a calculator in it to calculate AA% lost over a period of time. This takes into account the type of hop, the storage temp, and storage method (vacuum v. normal plastic bag, etc). FWIW, I put in your Northern Brewer hops, plastic bag storage, 30 degrees (assuming you froze them), and 34 months old (February 05 correct?!). The 7.6% AA content would have deteriorated to about 3% over that time with those variables. Thus, you'd need more than double to get the same effect.

If you stored the hop at higher temps (i.e. just in a box at room temp), the AA% would have deteriorated to .8%... These would be pretty much worthless and no use brewing with them.

So, using old, inproperly stored hops is not always the best idea... If you want to give me the storage method and temp you stored them at, I can run the other 'open' hops you have through the calculator too. But this gives you an idea on the NB...

RoaringBrewer said:

Beersmith has a calculator in it to calculate AA% lost over a period of time. This takes into account the type of hop, the storage temp, and storage method (vacuum v. normal plastic bag, etc). FWIW, I put in your Northern Brewer hops, plastic bag storage, 30 degrees (assuming you froze them), and 34 months old (February 05 correct?!). The 7.6% AA content would have deteriorated to about 3% over that time with those variables. Thus, you'd need more than double to get the same effect.

If you stored the hop at higher temps (i.e. just in a box at room temp), the AA% would have deteriorated to .8%... These would be pretty much worthless and no use brewing with them.

So, using old, inproperly stored hops is not always the best idea... If you want to give me the storage method and temp you stored them at, I can run the other 'open' hops you have through the calculator too. But this gives you an idea on the NB...

Click to expand...

Actually, as far as the Northern Brewer and Styrian Goldings are concerned, those were used in my last batch of beer (Affligem Tripel clone). The SG were a subsitute for the Challenger my crappy LHBS didn't have. Unfortunately, they were taken out of the freezer when I got my chest freezer but never made it there. They've been sitting in my gott cooler since I used them. I looked back at a previous thread and that was posted Sept. 24th. I believe I brewed the next day and used them. So they aren't from ~2005. Let's just call it September 25 was the day they were opened and let's say they have been at 70f since then. Because they weren't in the freezer is going to kill me here.

As far as the liberty...those are certainly from 2005 and are being thrown out tomorrow.

Ok then - at 3mo. old, stored at 70F, in plastic/poly bags you'd have this left of them:

Northern Brewer - 5.6%AA
Styrians - 4.7%AA

If you decide to brew with them, definitely compensate by adding the extra hops.