Cheap basic setup

Hi all, I have been pouring over threads for days now without finding exactly what I am looking for. I am going to be brewing in a single vessel BIAB keggle system. Seems like P-J is the man with the plan, so maybe he, or somebody else can help me. I want to switch to electric, and I need a cheap and easy setup. For right now, all I want is a controlled 5500W element, a temp probe, and a timer in one project box. Can somebody help me with the most basic setup for this? Thanks

Also, I plan on installing 220V to my garage if I need to, but is it possible/practical to use 110V to boil 7gal? Thanks

How about this setup?

(Click on the image to see a full scale diagram printable on Tabloid paper 11" x 17")



I places indicator lights for each device. You can choose to use them or not.

Thanks P-J. Is there one site I can order all of the electronics I need from? Sorry to be a pain, but can you give me part numbers for everything I would need. Thanks again, I knew you would come through. Cheers!

cork44 said:

Thanks P-J. Is there one site I can order all of the electronics I need from? Sorry to be a pain, but can you give me part numbers for everything I would need. Thanks again, I knew you would come through. Cheers!

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Welcome.

Re: ordering parts: No - the pieces will have to be ordered from several sites. It'll take a little while but, I'll put together a list for you. Do you have Microsoft Excel available on your computer? I ask as that is the tool I use to compile my source information. It works well for me as you can click on links to see the parts and then order the parts by vendor.

I ordered the $19 PID and a $13 40 amp SSR with heat sink and a $5 PWM off ebay, and a 50 cent wall wart from a yard sale, If it works I will be to my element hard wired, for under $50 with full controll.

Thanks P-J, I do have excel, and that would be awesome if you can make a list for me. I want this done cheaply, but also I want it done right. Thanks for your help.

The list is an Excel spread sheet named Brew_Parts_Order.xls that I have illustrated as a picture. The picture is too small to read - BUT - if you click on the image you can download the spread sheet. You can open it and/or save it on your system.

The sheet is protected so that you can navigate it easily. (It is not security code protected so that you can make changes to the content if you so choose) While it is protected you can change the quantity of any item you wish to add or remove. Just use the TAB key to navigate. Columns Vendor and URL are clickable. When you click on them, they will bring you to the vendors site or to the specific item listed.

BTW, you must save the spread sheet on your system if you want to keep any changes. You cannot modify my master copy.

The second page of the sheet contains the illustrations of GFCI protection for a system using a HomeDepot - GE 50A Spa Panel.

I hope all of this helps you.




Wishing you the best,
P-J

P-J said:

The list is an Excel spread sheet named Brew_Parts_Order.xls that I have illustrated as a picture. The picture is too small to read - BUT - if you click on the image you can download the spread sheet. You can open it and/or save it on your system.

The sheet is protected so that you can navigate it easily. (It is not security code protected so that you can make changes to the content if you so choose) While it is protected you can change the quantity of any item you wish to add or remove. Just use the TAB key to navigate. BTW, you must save it on your system if you want to keep any changes. You cannot modify my master copy.

The second page of the sheet contains the illustrations of possible GFCI protection for a system using a Lowe's - GE 50A Spa Panel.

I hope this helps you.




P-J

Click to expand...

It doesn't get much easier/simpler than that

That is just too cool. I really appreciate your help. You saved me a lot of time and frustration. Hopefully other people can use this too, as it is a great, simple setup. Cheers to you, P-J!

You are welcome. I'm glad that I could help you. BTW, I strongly suggest that you get the PID and SSR from Auber Instruments. If you want to order (must?) from eBay then I suggest that you go to This Site only so that you can recieve a reliable PID that will function as you need it to. Please don't throw your money away on "stuff" that doesn't necessarily do the proper job.

Just saying...

BTW - I just added the HomeDepot Spa Panel to the spread sheet. It's wiring is illustrated on the second sheet of the file for rigging an independent GFCI panel for the brewery.

I really believe that the GFCI protection of the brewery is critical to the brewers safety.

I had forgotten about it and had an Aha moment today.

P-J

P-J,

Where do you recommend to buy the wiring for this project?

I must be getting really old and senile. I tried to click on the spread sheet and then save the .xls file to my system to verify that I made the changes properly.

Apparently I'm way too old to understand this 'stuff' as I was not successful in getting a viable copy of the file that showed the tabs for the second sheet.

Getting old sucks big time. But, I finally figured out a way to do it.

Right click on the jpg image of the file in this thread and then choose Save target as... to save it to your desk top.

I've tried a bunch of other ways to save it back to my system, inorder to verify my changes - but - I never see the spread sheet file as I originally made it. The tab for the second sheet does NOT show. Damn.!!!

Can someone advise me how I'm screwing this up?

Well - anyway - you now have a way to get the actual .xls file in tact. (Incase you saw the same issue)

P-J

TJTHEBEST said:

P-J,

Where do you recommend to buy the wiring for this project?

Click to expand...

Sorry. I'm not sure I understand the meaning of your question. All of the components are listed in the .xls spread sheet. What is it that you are looking for. I'd be glad to help you.

P-J

The wires? to connect the components? or do they already have wiring?

Not to jump in front of PJ but you can buy wire at your local hardware store or you can also get it through McMaster Carr if your already ordering stuff from there. I did a little of both. I can look up exactly what I ordered and what I actually used for my project if you give me a little bit.

PJ may be able to give you an idea of how much of what you'd need off the top of his head.

TJTHEBEST said:

The wires? to connect the components? or do they already have wiring?

Click to expand...

You can buy the wire in various colors and gauges from HomeDepot, Lowes & Ace Hardware. They have it as solid and multi strand wire. If you get a chance, go there and check it out. Most any decent hardware store carries electrical wire.

HTH.

You can buy wiring at any hardware store for sure, I bought four feet of 10/4 (10 gauge, 3 wires plus a ground) for $6 or something and used it for all of my big wires in my control panel. Had left overs and lots of mis-cuts

I also used old computer power cords that I had kicking around for the low amp wiring, just strip the outer casing and cut the ends off. Bit of a pain, but puts them to some use.

Either one though is available at any home depot, Rona, Ace, whathaveyou Just ensure you overestimate the amount of wiring you'll need, would suck having to go back for a foot of 18 gauge wire or something

jsguitar said:

Not to jump in front of PJ but you can buy wire at your local hardware store or you can also get it through McMaster Carr if your already ordering stuff from there. I did a little of both. I can look up exactly what I ordered and what I actually used for my project if you give me a little bit.

PJ may be able to give you an idea of how much of what you'd need off the top of his head.

Click to expand...

I'm lovin' it! You beat me to it with your response.

Thanks.

Paul

Thanks guys. What about the size of the wires? Im sure there are other threads that talk about it but i thought id ask anyways.

Depending on the current flow to the components:

For a 30A feed - you need #10
For a 50A feed you need at least #8 - depending on the cable specs. The cable (wire) needs to be rated for its duty.

For the elements:
5500W you need #10
4500W you need #12
For the pump circuits - you need #14

All of the signal & PID input circuits can be wired with a much smaller wire. #20 or simply, wire stripped from a super cheap extension cord would do.

HTH.

Psych said:

You can buy wiring at any hardware store for sure, I bought four feet of 10/4 (10 gauge, 3 wires plus a ground) for $6 or something and used it for all of my big wires in my control panel. Had left overs and lots of mis-cuts

I also used old computer power cords that I had kicking around for the low amp wiring, just strip the outer casing and cut the ends off. Bit of a pain, but puts them to some use.

Either one though is available at any home depot, Rona, Ace, whathaveyou Just ensure you overestimate the amount of wiring you'll need, would suck having to go back for a foot of 18 gauge wire or something

Click to expand...

I just realized you responsed with a great answer at the same moment I responded. Go figure.

Good job!

Here's what I used approximately. Your needs will differ depending on what you're building. As stated, it's better to get more than you think you need, but for what it's worth, I used:

< 2 feet white 10 gauge
< 2 feet green 10 gauge
around ten feet red 10 gauge
around 6 feet black 10 gauge
around 20 feet black 14 gauge
around 5 feet of red 14 gauge around 5 feet of white 14 gauge

I used all THHN stranded wire. I bought much more than this because I wasn't sure what I needed. I used some of the 10 gauge for my GFI too. I should've bought a few feet of the green 14 gauge too because that's all I needed in some places and the ten gauge is hard to run. I also messed up a lot and wasted some wire and connectors.

This doesn't include the 10/4 power cable or the GFCI dryer cable if you're doing that.

Here's the McMaster Carr link I used if you choose to go that route:

http://www.mcmaster.com/#type-thhn-building-wire/=cy8j0d

I believe with the 14 gauge you can order by the foot but for the ten gauge you have to buy a min. ten feet.

Here's my build if it helps: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/suggestions-controller-249400/



EDIT: Or just look at PJ's answer! Lol. Man, we're on this one like stink on a monkey!

rod734 said:

I ordered the $19 PID and a $13 40 amp SSR with heat sink and a $5 PWM off ebay, and a 50 cent wall wart from a yard sale, If it works I will be to my element hard wired, for under $50 with full controll.

Click to expand...

Hi Rod, any chance you could post links to where you bought your PID & SSR? That is pretty cheap. Also why did you use a PWM as well, does your PID not have a manual control function like the Aubers do.
Cheers

P-J said:

I just realized you responsed with a great answer at the same moment I responded. Go figure.

Good job!

Click to expand...

Hehe yeah just saw that, timing!

Regarding wire size for the OP, I don't recall what sort of element you're using but you pretty much can't go wrong with 10 gauge wire. It'll handle 30 amps, I think? If you get solid core (as opposed to stranded) it's easy to strip and pretty nice to manipulate and twist around into nice shapes

Downside is if you're wiring anything on a movable piece, like saw wiring something on the door to your enclosure or something, then solid core is a real PITA.

For the smaller stuff I'm not 100% sure what gauge is recommended, but I'd think you'd be pretty safe with 12-14 gauge for most applications that aren't the primary load wires to your heater.

mattd2 said:

Hi Rod, any chance you could post links to where you bought your PID & SSR? That is pretty cheap. Also why did you use a PWM as well, does your PID not have a manual control function like the Aubers do.
Cheers

Click to expand...

I got it off ebay and it does not have the manual mode. It also does not have out to SSR relay so I plan on using a 12 volt wall wart off one leg of the 220 contacts to trigger my SSR.
I'm going to do the BIB type set up with 15.5 gal keggel. I will use the pid in auto mode to monitor and controll my mash temps and get it to boil temp and then use the pwm to controll the boil. I'm also thinking about using 2 elements maybe a 2500 and a 3500 so in case of an electronic failure I can fire one directly to maintain a boil. I will run everything off a 50 amp spa panel.

rod734 said:

I got it off ebay and it does not have the manual mode. It also does not have out to SSR relay so I plan on using a 12 volt wall wart off one leg of the 220 contacts to trigger my SSR...

Click to expand...

Do you have a link to the seller or auction?
I have found these ones around the $20 mark but they all seem to have a 0/12V pulse output so I don't know:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Dual-Digital-F-...lectrical_Equipment_Tools&hash=item3369122726
and
http://cgi.ebay.com/PID-Digital-Tem...091?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item23107183ab
Any of those ones?

mattd2 said:

Do you have a link to the seller or auction?
I have found these ones around the $20 mark but they all seem to have a 0/12V pulse output so I don't know:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Dual-Digital-F-...lectrical_Equipment_Tools&hash=item3369122726
and
http://cgi.ebay.com/PID-Digital-Tem...091?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_2&hash=item23107183ab
Any of those ones?

Click to expand...

The Rex-C100 in your second link is the one I got. It arrived yesterday and I was just going over the instruction manual and it does have a 0-12v ssr out so maybe I will not have to use a 12v supply to trigger my ssr only for my pwm. It sure is a cute little thing, but I may have to take a class to be able to opperate it.
To post a link do you just copy and paste it? I'm like P-J was talking, getting old (just turned 61) and have limited computer skills.

So I'm going to have to run 8/3 from my breaker box to my garage? Anyone know a good source for that?

rod734 said:

The Rex-C100 in your second link is the one I got. It arrived yesterday and I was just going over the instruction manual and it does have a 0-12v ssr out so maybe I will not have to use a 12v supply to trigger my ssr only for my pwm. It sure is a cute little thing, but I may have to take a class to be able to opperate it.
To post a link do you just copy and paste it? I'm like P-J was talking, getting old (just turned 61) and have limited computer skills.

Click to expand...

Yeah, you can usually just copy and paste the link and it will do the rest.
Good luck with your controller

very useful P-J! Thx

P-J....this is wonderful. I was really looking into building an electric system several years ago when people were just starting to look into it. I got sidetracked with life and haven't been able to brew at all in almost 2 years. Was just about to get back into it and the thought of all the research it would take to build a system was a bit daunting....very glad you put this list together. Cheers brother!

P-J said:

The list is an Excel spread sheet named Brew_Parts_Order.xls that I have illustrated as a picture. The picture is too small to read - BUT - if you click on the image you can download the spread sheet. You can open it and/or save it on your system.

The sheet is protected so that you can navigate it easily. (It is not security code protected so that you can make changes to the content if you so choose) While it is protected you can change the quantity of any item you wish to add or remove. Just use the TAB key to navigate. Columns Vendor and URL are clickable. When you click on them, they will bring you to the vendors site or to the specific item listed.

BTW, you must save the spread sheet on your system if you want to keep any changes. You cannot modify my master copy.

The second page of the sheet contains the illustrations of GFCI protection for a system using a Lowe's - GE 50A Spa Panel.

I hope all of this helps you.




Wishing you the best,
P-J

Click to expand...

cork44, did you ever build the electric brew kettle with controller that P-J posted? If so, did you run into any problems or change any of the parts listed? Only thing I'm not postive about is the work box. Will this work box be the right size, or would it be best to get a box that is already cut out to allow for the Auberin timer also?

P-J, if I were to leave off the Auberin Timer, Timer Power Indicator, and Timer Power switch; would the rest of the wiring diagram still apply as have it listed? The reason I ask is that I like ot keep things as simple as possible (fewer failure points) and I honestly don't think I would gain much benefit from having a timer.

Gregredic said:

P-J, if I were to leave off the Auberin Timer, Timer Power Indicator, and Timer Power switch; would the rest of the wiring diagram still apply as have it listed? The reason I ask is that I like ot keep things as simple as possible (fewer failure points) and I honestly don't think I would gain much benefit from having a timer.

Click to expand...

No problem at all. Just drop the timer, its power switch & indicator light.

Go for it.!

P-J said:

No problem at all. Just drop the timer, its power switch & indicator light.

Go for it.!

Click to expand...

Just a quick question and kind of off topic (sorry), what do you use the timer for? Does it have an internal buzzer for the alarm or anything, I'm guessing you could hook it up to control things but you schematic shows that it's not.
Cheers

mattd2 said:

Just a quick question and kind of off topic (sorry), what do you use the timer for? Does it have an internal buzzer for the alarm or anything, I'm guessing you could hook it up to control things but you schematic shows that it's not.

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I drew the diagram based on the request of cork44. The intended use of it was never discussed so I just included the base wiring. The timer can be used for many functions. I left that up to the choice of anyone wanting to inplement it.

BTW - the timer does not have internal buzzers et.al.

P-J said:

I drew the diagram based on the request of cork44. The intended use of it was never discussed so I just included the base wiring. The timer can be used for many functions. I left that up to the choice of anone wanting to inplement it.

BTW - the timer does not have internal buzzers et.al.

Click to expand...

In context it makes sense why you have it drawn that way, thanks.

Hi guys, I have not built this yet. I am still gathering info and trying to decide on what I want. I will probably wait and make this a winter project. I brew about once a month right now on my turkey fryer setup, so I am really looking forward to getting rid of these propane tanks. Thanks for all of the info and help to all who responded, especially P-J. I will post pics when its done for sure though.