4 day old Wheat beer on tap! - without lots of yeast!

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pjj2ba

Look under the recliner
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Lately I've been thinking about quick, fresh beers, partly inspired by the Vietnamese Bai Hoi. I like to experiment. Well I just brewed a wheat beer on Sunday, and tapped it last night, after just 4 days. I am very pleased. I have some photos, and will take some more and upload later.

The main stumbling block to me with brewing a quick beer is how to deal with all of the yeast. There is an awfull lot of suspended yeast in a young beer, especially a wheat. This could lead to some gasy situations. Apparently for the Bai Hoi, they do filter it. That is not an option for me (right now). Well being a biologist and having acess to science "stuff" a came up with an idea and am pleased to report that so far it appears to have worked. I won't know all of the details until I kick the keg (2.5 gal) and can look inside.

First off, I fermented this beer in the keg and served from the same keg. NO transfers. I brewed 7 gal of wheat on Sunday, and 5 went into a carboy and 2 went into the keg. The gravity was a little high, so I diluted the keg version with a little distilled water. Unfortunately we had family over for the Holidays and I was cooking too, so I didn't get a gravity reading of the diluted wort. The main batch was 1.054, I'm guessing the gravity was probably around 1.048.

The keg was sealed up. The next morning I lifted the relief valve and got a nice little hiss. My plan was to ferment under pressure, but my relief valves hadn't arrived yet. Every so often on Memorial day, I would relieve the pressure. I left the valve open overnight and during the next day. After work (Tues.) my valves had arrived so I put the 5 psi valve on. The beer is fermenting at 64 F. Late Wed. evening, I took the 5 psi valve off, and put a 15 psi valve on. Thursday morning I put the keg in my kegerator. Thurs. night I come home, hooked up the tap, and poured a nice tasting pint of 96 hr old beer! Extremely refreshing! Very well carbed. I quick bottled up 3 swing tops and took them to dinner at a BYOB place.

Oh yeah, how did I deal with all of that yeast? The 5 gal in the carboy is milky white with yeast, but this looked like a typical "aged" wheat. I cheated and used my science "stuff", which is in fact - dialysis tubing. This is commonly used in labs during protein purification. Say your protein is in a buffer solution with high salt, and you want it in a buffer with low salt. The cure for this is to dialyze it. Dialysis tube is semi-permeable. Large molecules, like proteins (and yeast) cannot pass through the membrane, but salts and water (and sugars as well). Put the hight salt protein solution in the tubing and seal it up and then place it in a large volume of low salt buffer. Eventually it will come to equilibrium with the external buffer. So I took about 3 ft of some dialysis tubing (~ 1 in. dia.), rinsed it in Starsan, tied off the bottom, filled it halfway with distilled water, added a packet of Safale 05 (for 2 gal.!) and tied the other end off. I sloshed it around a bit, and tossed it into the keg!

One reason to fill with distilled water is that typically the high salt (or sugar) is inside the tubing, and after dialyzing, the tubes can swell a little. since I had yeast inside that would be multiplying I wanted to make sure there was plenty of room and it wouldn't swell up and burst. That being said, a little of yeast may have gotten out at the end when putting it in the tubing. It is slippery stuff to work with. I say this because I haven't been able to get a good hydrometer reading yet. It is too bubbly. I let a sample sit out while at dinner to degas, but it was still too bubbly when we got home. Even this morning it was too bubbly, which suggests to me that some yeast has gotten out (or was never in). Best guess is the OG is around 1.012 - but evolving. I'll have to wait until the keg is kicked to see the status of the tubing and whether it is intact or not. I think it is intact because the was not enough yeast in the beers I've poured, especially compared to how the 5 gal batch looks (have pictures).

One possible side benefit to this, is that if one allows enough room to the yeast to grow, than conceivibly, one could simply lift the tubing out, and put it into a fresh batch of wort - no trub! I may try this next weekend and do another 7 gal. batch - probably a pale ale this time.

Now not everyone has some dialysis tubing around so I've been looking around for a more common substitute. After a few more batches this way, I want to try a fiborous sausage casing - the kind for a summer sausage. A collagen or natural casing, like for a typical, brat won't be strong enough I think. I did a little looking and the fibrous casing might be semi permeable enough. If someone happens to have a casing and could test this that would be great. To test this, fill it partly with some very salt water, remove as much air as possible and tie it up. Now put it in a large pot of tap water. If the casing is semi-permeable, then the casing will swell as water moves into the casing. Also the water in the pot should then also get salty. This might take overnight though. If this is a go, then we have to hope that the pores are too small for the yeast to pass
 
Wow! Sugar goes in the yeast-filled tubing, alcohol comes out and th @#&$@ stays in the tubing. You were really thinking outside the box. All y'all HBS owners need to start sourcing this stuff!
 
I'm not sure. I'm not real up on RO filters. I know they have the filter portion and the ion-exchange canisters but I'm not sure how it all ordered. Obviously you want some stuff to pass through.

I "inherited" my tubing after my father-in-law died a couple years ago and we cleaned out his office and lab.

I am intrigued with the possibility that a FIBROUS sausage casing might work. I'm concerned that it might not be permeable enough. The real dialysis tubing is pretty tough stuff.

There might be some other stuff out there, that while not able to totally block yeast movement, might block most of it.

Back when I was doing more plant protein extractions, rather than using filter paper and squeezing that (which often broke) to get the "juice" out. A colleague was into sailing and gave me an ~16"X16" piece of sailcloth made out of some kind of synthetic material. Worked fabolously for this. I could squeeze like a som-b***h and it would keep most of the cell debris contained. Maybe something like this would work. Once could sew up (folded seams) some kind of pouch.
 
Good thought on the sausage casing, I think it's made from cellulose, which is the same as the Dialysis tubing.. might work and it's pretty cheap too.
 
If this works it would be the advent of a new era in home brewing. Fermentation to serving all in one vessel with little to no intervention by the brewer? Amazing.
 
If this works it would be the advent of a new era in home brewing. Fermentation to serving all in one vessel with little to no intervention by the brewer? Amazing.

Agreed, I'm down.

pjj, I'm a "biologist" too (the quotes are because I graduate in December) and I have friends in several labs. What kind of labs or research departments would be using this stuff? Why pay for it when I can get it for free?

This is an incredible process! I would like very much to try this out as well. Maybe even experiment and try it with something semi-heavy.

Can't wait for the final results. Please be sure to let us know how much yeast is left at the bottom of the keg. Also a comparison taste test between your carboy and your keg batches would be awesome. Bring in homebrewing friend(s) for a blind taste test. That would probably allow you to most accurately determine if the process is beneficial (or even worth it.)
 
So why not compare serial SG's from the carboxyl's and the keg over the course of a few days to see if there is a difference? I think that would be a very interesting study..
 
Do a web search for "immobilized yeast". The yeast cells are basically cast into a gel-like substrate (calcium alginate) that allows the yeast access to sugar, but keeps them pinned inside. Many of the distilleries trying to ferment a high gravity wort will use this technique, as it doesn't expose the yeast to the osmotic strain that would otherwise exist if the yeast were free in solution. You can purchase the alginate quite inexpensively.
 
What a cool idea! I love it! If you had a corny keg lid with a stainless nipple or two attached, you could hang the dialysis tubing down from those into the keg and have a fermentation lid. Fermentation lock could go into the tops of the nipples if they are open, or better seal them tightly and let your metered pressure relief valve set your carbonation. When time's up, you don't have to think about yeast harvesting!. Simply lift the lid out, pour out yeast until you are down to the correct pitching rate, and the lid with tubing and yeast could go right into the next keg. So much for all that yeast washing stuff. NO carboys to shatter, conicals to clean, etc. Chilled wort goes into the corny, the lids get swapped, and beer comes out. Fantastic!

I hope this sounds as clever in the morning when the IPA has cleared!
 
I wonder if this would work? I was thinking the 14 V 4519

Yes, this looks good! 14K pore size will definitely keep the yeast in (and most proteins). I'm curious to see how this affect beer foam. I believe there are proteases produced by yeast, and I think I read somewhere that too much protease activity from the yeast can negatively affect head retention. At 14 K, this would likely keep the prtoeases inside, and also keep the wort proteins out. At 14 K, pretty good sized polysaccharides can still freely move across - that was one concern I had.


One thing I haven't yet checked obviously is the possible reusability of the tubing. I certainly could just transfer it to a new batch of wort, but what if I want to rinse it out and change strains? I'm going to see if it holds up to the autoclave. OK, a quick web search says the stuff can be autoclaved, or BOILED. I did see a warning about not letting it dry out afterwards (it comes dry).

Reno_eNVy_446 - you want to talk to folks doing protein biochemistry - animal, plant or microbial.

I'm thinking about brewing this weekend. I'll do another 7 gal batch, but this time, I will put the extra 2 gal of wort in a 3 gal glass carboy so I can see what is going on. I'm curious to see what level (if any?) of krausen there will be. This might be another really nice advantage for fermenting in kegs so one could fill them more full and not worrry about blow off.

We hit the keg hard on Fri. but I was gone all weekend so there is still a little left. When it is kicked I'll take some pictures of the tubing
 
I'm curious to see what level (if any?) of krausen there will be.

My guess is that it will be much like a lager krausen - basically just bubbles, maybe some break material or hop sludge depending on how much got out of the pot.

I agree, though, it'll be very interesting to see what happens. Keep us posted!
 
I'm halfway tempted to try this with some washed, sanitized natural casings that I currently have in the fridge :)
 
this is really cool. i wonder how well a mason jar with a couple coffee filters screwed on would work on the bottom of a bucket. or would you need lab filter paper?...tyvek? shipping envelopes?
 
I'm halfway tempted to try this with some washed, sanitized natural casings that I currently have in the fridge :)

My only concern with a natural casing is would it be strong enough. The keg kicked late last night so tonight I'll take a look and see how rigid the tubing is. If it hasn't swelled up, that natural casing might work.

As for a mason jar with coffee filters. Might work. I suspect some yeast would make their way out, but most would be contained. One disadvantage of the mason jar would be the lack of surface area and only one opening for diffussion versus with the tubing, the whole surface is exposed.
 
What's the verdict on this? Was there a mess at the bottom of the keg or did golden rays of awesomeness shine out when you took that lid off?
 
I haven't checked it yet. I want to reuse the yeast so I'm resisting the urge to check it, for sanitary reasons. I was going to brew last weekend but that fell through. I am going to brew this coming weekend for sure. I'm going to make another 7 gal batch, this time shooting for a 2.5-3% ABV beer. I'm going to take the yeast in the tubing out of the 3 gal keg it is in, and put it into a 3 gal carboy so I can watch it (and photograph it). Then I'm going to go ahead and do 5 gal in a keg, with a different yeast in some more tubing. This will be served up the following weekend at our pig roast.
 
The verdict is in - sort of. More analysis is needed. I opened the keg and there was a whole lot of sludge in the bottom and there was a big split in the tubing.

HOWEVER, I think it worked as intended. There was a LOT of yeast in the bottom, like from a typical primary. Yet these beers poured like a typical wheat beer. Based on the amount of sludge, the beers should have been way cloudier. I think the tubing rupture happened AFTER the keg was kicked. The keg was under 15 psi of pressure, and the tubing would still have had the yeast, some liquid and 15 psi worth of CO2 inside, just like a balloon. With a sudden pressure release (which I did), all of the CO2 in the tubing would expand - blamo - blow out.

I've got it set up again. Brewed it on Sunday and will serve it at the pig roast on Sat. OG = 1.030. This time I've got 5 gal. in a keg. 5 psi relief valve in place. I also have an extra 2 gal. in a 3 gal glass carboy so I can watch - plus no pressure to worry about. I'll post some pictures of the carboy once things get going. The 3 gal batch is going to be fermented in a typical fermentation schedule, not a fast one.
 
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What kind of yeast did you use? The reason I'm asking is that I did my first and only wheat about 7 weeks ago, and without anything other than a Pail Ale bucket and bottles, got a beautiful clear wheat in 10 days.
We used a typical 60/40 mix of 2-row and wheat, along with rice hulls. .5 oz of Halletauer at 60 and at 5 minutes. Wyeast 1010 American Wheat ale. When I bottled it after two weeks in the primary, I thought it was going to be a failure, because it was SO cloudy, but I had already got everything going. After 10 days, I looked at one, and it was about like you expect for a wheat. Within a few more days, if you poured it carefully, practically no haze. Clear beer. The last one was consumed on the 15th. I never really was a big fan of wheat beers, but I sure am now. This weekend, I'm going to do another one with captured SN Kellerwies yeast. This time, though, it will sit in the primary three to four weeks.
 
What do you think about one of these bags for a filter, say the 5 micron one (I think yeast cells are roughly 5-10 microns).

http://www.filtersfast.com/Bag-Filters-cat.asp

Hmmmmm, No. probably not. I'd be afraid you'd lose too much beer. You want to keep the volume as small as possible, but allow room for the yeast to grow. I'd be afraid with a filter like those, you'll end up with a bunch of liquid inside, and then with all of the yeast in there, when you lift it up, it will take forever to drain.

With the membrane I'm using water movement (net) is very slow.
 
What kind of yeast did you use? The reason I'm asking is that I did my first and only wheat about 7 weeks ago, and without anything other than a Pail Ale bucket and bottles, got a beautiful clear wheat in 10 days.
We used a typical 60/40 mix of 2-row and wheat, along with rice hulls. .5 oz of Halletauer at 60 and at 5 minutes. Wyeast 1010 American Wheat ale.

I used Safale 05, going American style. I believe American wheat yeast are more flocculant than their European counterparts. I like my wheat beers to taste more of wheat, than of yeast. I find many commercial wheat beers (European and American) to be just the opposite

One of my favorite wheat beers of all time was from the original Frankenmuth brewery in the late '80s - early 90's (now closed). They had a filtered wheat (kristal) that was oh so refreshing.
 
I've got it set up again. Brewed it on Sunday and will serve it at the pig roast on Sat. OG = 1.030. This time I've got 5 gal. in a keg. 5 psi relief valve in place. I also have an extra 2 gal. in a 3 gal glass carboy so I can watch - plus no pressure to worry about. I'll post some pictures of the carboy once things get going. The 3 gal batch is going to be fermented in a typical fermentation schedule, not a fast one.

How much yeast are you loading the dialysis tubing with?
 
The first version I used a whole packet of dry yeast for just under 2 gal. I was looking for speed in this case.

For the current 5 gal. one I made a 500 ml starter and decanted most of the liquid.

For the current 2 gal. one, I had hoped to simply lift the tube out and put it in fresh wort. Since my tube burst, I quick set up another tubing and put it on a funnel, like a condom with a large reservoir tip, and then held the 3 gal keg over it and waited for the sludge to drain in. I probably put more yeast in this, than in for the 5 gal. batch - of course the yeast in the starter were primed ready to go and hadn't been sitting in my fridge for a week like the stuff in the keg.
 
Any volume estimates of a thick slurry? I am curious as to how much yeast the dialysis tubing can actually handle before bursting.
 
Any volume estimates of a thick slurry? I am curious as to how much yeast the dialysis tubing can actually handle before bursting.

I allowed plenty of room for yeast expansion in the tubing. I set up about 2.5 ft of tubing. I added probably 75 ml of sludge to the tubing. One thing that I can see now, is I should have added some extra liquid (or a weight) to the tubing to help weigh it down a bit. Right now it is mostly sitting on the surface, and slowly the tube is filling with gas. I suspect this is not happening as much with the version under 5 psi pressure (and had more liquid at set up).
 
Update on the current batches.

Well neither of the two batches are fermenting as fast as the first one - and I think I know why - not enough liquid in the tubing.

With the batch going in the 3 gal carboy, I can see that quite a bit of CO2 has built up and because I just put a thick slurry in the tubing, it is mostly floating on the surface. I was assuming the same was going on in the 5 gal carboy as I used a starter with a bunch of the liquid decanted off.

So, I went home for Lunch today and brought some sterile water with me. I opened up the keg, and this one wasn't floating quite as bad, partly because it was wrapped around the dip tube. I put some gloves on, and pulled the tubing out. LOTS of air, not much liquid, and some big gloppy clumps of yeast - not so good for fermentation. I cut an end off and using a funnel, filled the tubing about 2/3 full with the water. I retied it, sloshed it back and forth in the tubing to mix the yeast up and put it back in. It sank nicely in the beer. I suspect it will take off now - It had better, I plan to tap this in 2 more days.

Another thing I noticed is that it appears as though a little bit of yeast can make it out through the knots. I tied 3 knots at each end. At one end, the tubing between the knots was full of gas, and I could see some yeast growing on the tubing, PAST all of the knots. I suspect enough pressure is building up to push some yeast through the knots????? It wasn't much, but it was some
 
This might be an interesting way to use multiple yeast strains in one beer, you could switch the tubes out during fermentation or maybe use multiple tubes at the same time to help avoid one yeast out-competing the other?
 
I'm very interested to know if there is a cost effective material that those of us not in the medical field could use.
 
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