what kind of DME for yeast starters?

1.) what kind of DME should you use for a yeast starter? same as in recipe, or is there a universal DME to use?

2.) why not use some of your actual wort and pitch whole starter next day?

3.) do you really need a starter with smack packs?

1. just some Briess light DME...
2. because your other wort could become infected. plus you want to give the starter a couple of days to do its thing
3. some people do some don't...I do

there is a wealth of info on starters on this site and the net...

1.) Usually Pilsner or Pale DME.

2.) Letting your wort sit while your starter is propagating isn't a good idea - it increased the chances for off-flavors due to bacterial or wild yeast infections.

3.) You don't need to, but it's highly recommended.

1) any old DME will do, although darker ones run the risk of impacting the color of your final beer
2) Your beer (wort) could get infecting in the mean time
3) Depends on the OG and how old the smack pack is. If memory serves, smack packs are made to be able to pitch into a wort with OG of 1.040. So if the smack pack is more than a month or so old, or if you wort has a higher gravity, a starter is probably a good idea

You should use a yeast starter for all brews that has an original gravity of 1.060 and above.

1. I use a similar DME as what is being used in that batch. Mixing ½ quart of boiled (cooled) water and ½ cup DME. This should give you a gravity of around 1.040, perfect for the starter.

2. Using the actual malt will give you a much higher gravity then you desire. Remember, you are making a yeast starter because your wort has such a high gravity. Think of it as preparing the yeast for bigger things.

3. I recommend a yeast start for any wort that is 1.070 and above, even with the smack packs. It is easy to do and really does contribute to the flavor of the higher gravity beers. Below is so pointer on when and how much to use.

This Pitching Rate Calculater is very handy.

Mr Malty Pitching Rate Calculator

If you're curious, here is the simple math to calculate the number of cells needed. For an ale, you want to pitch around 0.75 million cells of viable yeast (0.75 million for an ale, 1.5 million for a lager), for every milliliter of wort, for every degree plato.
(0.75 million) X (milliliters of wort) X (degrees Plato of the wort)

• There is about 3785 milliliters in a gallon. There are about 20,000 milliliters in 5.25 gallons.

• A degree Plato is about 1.004 of original gravity. Just divide the OG by 4 to get Plato (e.g., 1.048 is 12 degrees Plato).

So, for a 1.048 wort pitching into 5.25 gallons you need about 180 billion cells.
(750,000) X (20,000) X (12) = 180,000,000,000

As an easy to remember rough estimate, you need about 15 billion cells for each degree Plato or about 4 billion cells for each point of OG when pitching into a little over 5 gallons of wort. If you want a quick way of doing a back of the envelope estimate, that is really close to 0.75 billion cells for each point of gravity per gallon of wort. Double that to 1.5 billion for a lager.

using that calculation tool it says i need 1.56 liters of starter that seems like a lot, no? i mean 1.56 liters is almost a 1/2 a gallon so now my green beer volume is 5.5 gallons won't that dilute, and or change my beer in some way? should i compensate for the starter somehow? if so how?

other question if using a different DME in the yeast starter than in your wort it won't affect your gravity, tastes, or color in the batch? (assuming your DME is lighter than, or the same as, the one your are using in the wort.) as in won't it lighten any beer if i use a light DME?

I have both light and amber depending on the color of the beer I am doing. I have used the amber on ambers and darker beers, and the light for anything lower on the SRM scale.

In the future when I run out of DME I think I will do what I think Deathbrewer suggested and mash some grain in one of those coated cast iron pots (can't remember the real name for some reason) in the oven set at 155*. I figure 3/4 lb of grain at about .45c compared to 1/2 of DME is a bit of cost savings.

immaculatemale8 said:

using that calculation tool it says i need 1.56 liters of starter that seems like a lot, no? i mean 1.56 liters is almost a 1/2 a gallon so now my green beer volume is 5.5 gallons won't that dilute, and or change my beer in some way? should i compensate for the starter somehow? if so how?

other question if using a different DME in the yeast starter than in your wort it won't affect your gravity, tastes, or color in the batch? (assuming your DME is lighter than, or the same as, the one your are using in the wort.) as in won't it lighten any beer if i use a light DME?

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1.5 to 2-liter starters are pretty standard for propagation for most medium-gravity ales. With a starter this large, you don't pitch the entire thing though. You let the starter wort ferment to completion, chill it down to get the yeast to settle to the bottom, and then decant/discard the starter wort. Swirl up the fresh yeast bed and pitch only that - that way, you neither dilute nor impart any undesirable flavors to your beer.

so whats the benefit of doing a yeast starter what does it help with? seem you could just pitch the yeast as is, or is it just about lag time? does it benefit anything other than time?

With a proper starter (i.e. larger than 1 liter), you increase yeast cell count, viability and vitality, which results in a better beer - shorter lag time, reduced chance for stuck fermentation, full attenuation, less stress-induced off-flavors, etc. There are numerous sources out there that describe the benefits in detail that a forum or Google search will find.

I have made starters for my last 3 brews, and I have brewed four times, I have only made 1L starters in growlers, is it possible to make a larger starter in a growler, such as a 1.5 or 1.75, or would I run the risk of a blowoff if it krausens, I only use foil caps. My WLP400 belgian wit starter krausened about 2-2.5 inches, my WLP004 Irish ale starter no krausen at all(but shortest lag time). I will be making a Dubbel with a 1.070 Estimated OG and I want to make a bigger starter, MrMalty says with intermittent shaking I should make a 2L satrter, but a growler is only 2L should I break down and get a bigger starter container?

immaculatemale8 said:

1.) what kind of DME should you use for a yeast starter? same as in recipe, or is there a universal DME to use?
I used light DME

2.) why not use some of your actual wort and pitch whole starter next day?
What I do now is I save a growler of wort and use that for my next starter yes I am cheap

3.) do you really need a starter with smack packs?

I do will prove it viable and get the yeast count up . Always use Mr.Malty

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Just a 5.5 gallon 1.048 ale needs 177 million yeast cells a fresh smack pack has 100 million who knows how many are viable after a few weeks or months

Schnitzengiggle said:

I have made starters for my last 3 brews, and I have brewed four times, I have only made 1L starters in growlers, is it possible to make a larger starter in a growler, such as a 1.5 or 1.75, or would I run the risk of a blowoff if it krausens, I only use foil caps. My WLP400 belgian wit starter krausened about 2-2.5 inches, my WLP004 Irish ale starter no krausen at all(but shortest lag time). I will be making a Dubbel with a 1.070 Estimated OG and I want to make a bigger starter, MrMalty says with intermittent shaking I should make a 2L satrter, but a growler is only 2L should I break down and get a bigger starter container?

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you could just do a step up. make your 1 liter let it go a few days throw it in the fridge and then decant the liquid. Then add another liter of fresh wort and let her again.

humann_brewing said:

I have both light and amber depending on the color of the beer I am doing. I have used the amber on ambers and darker beers, and the light for anything lower on the SRM scale.

In the future when I run out of DME I think I will do what I think Deathbrewer suggested and mash some grain in one of those coated cast iron pots (can't remember the real name for some reason) in the oven set at 155*. I figure 3/4 lb of grain at about .45c compared to 1/2 of DME is a bit of cost savings.

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I often intentionally calculate an all-grain recipe with lower efficiency than I will actually get, and then just take the excess wort and dilute it to ~1.040 and save it in the freezer for starters.

springer said:

you could just do a step up. make your 1 liter let it go a few days throw it in the fridge and then decant the liquid. Then add another liter of fresh wort and let her again.

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Would I have to worry about any krausen, or when you step up is that not an issue?

EDIT: read your reply wrong...I see what you mean, decant then add more wort to increase the cell count without just adding more wort to the existing wort.

I make starters for all my beers now because I'm doing 10 or 15 gal batches almost exclusively and I'm a cheap brewer that's not willing to buy 2-3 vials (or smack packs) of new yeast to make my beer.

I was using wort at first and only giving it 12 hours to grow( basically overnight), but have since switched to a lite DME so that I can prepare it a day or two ahead of time.

I make it up 1/2 to 3/4 gal of starter typically depending on whether I'm making a 10 or 15 gal batch or if I'm brewing a light or dark beer ( like a stout)


Its beer, let us not forget its pretty forgiving as long as you stick to the basics