First GF recipe, thoughts?

Hi, first post on these forums.

I have a few batches under my belt but they have not been GF. My wife has coeliac and wants something that tastes close to the tripel I made as my first batch. Here is what I am thinking:

6 pounds sorghum extract
3 pounds honey
1 pound molasses
8 oz maltodextrin
1 pound belgian candi sugar

1 oz saaz hops 60 minutes
1 oz saaz hops 5 minutes

Will this work or at least approximate the taste of the Belgian trippel?

Thanks!

Well, a pound of molasses is a lot. That will probably make the beer darker than is normal for a tripel, and it will give it a significant molasses flavor. I've never used that much molasses in a beer, so I can't tell you if it will be good or not, but it will make the beer fairly dark. (As a note, I've found it really doesn't take much molasses to darken a beer, and I think it works great for this purpose. A couple spoon fulls took my pale, sad looking witless and made it a rich gold.)

Also, as you may already know, honey is a bit of an unknown, as the sugar content varies widely depending on the honey. If you haven't used honey before, I'd do a quick search on the forum, you'll find out about how to calculate how much sugar you are going to get out of it, etc.

When I made my tripel, I used about twice that much sugar, and I also used 1 lb of rice syrup solids. Depending on the honey, that might come out to be roughly the same amount of sugar as I used. I didn't use any maltodextrin in my tripel, but that was because I figured the sorghum and rice syrup would provide the mouthfeel necessary to make an easy-drinking tripel. Personally, I would leave the maltodextrin out of the boil, as you can always add it at bottling time if you think the beer is too thin.

What are you planning on using for yeast?

The changes I would suggest (I've not brewed a tripel)

-Instead of 6 lbs of sorghum syrup, I'd do a 50/50 blend of sorghum syrup and brown rice syrup (or rice syrup solids)
-I wouldn't use that much honey, as dorklord mentioned, it is an unknown and I'd like to reserve honey for an addition to add aroma rather than sugar content, but maybe that's just me- Instead, I'd use maple syrup, brown rice syrup, belgian candi sugar, corn sugar, or some other sugar to up the gravity
-Don't be afraid of using 1 lb of molasses, I've done it plenty of times. Most notably it brings out a slight chocolaty taste and certainly does add a nice bit of color to it. I find this pleasing
-+1 on saving the maltodextrine until bottling time, taste it and see if you want to add it. I put it in almost all of mine out of habit but I've never thought it had a detrimental effect on a beer, again- that's just me
-Consider adding belgian candi sugar in the brew and after fermentation starts. I've heard of the technique but I don't know the specifics but I have a feeling DKershner knows the answer to this

Thanks for the replies

Dorklord, some solid points. Looks like I'll shy away from the honey, for yeast I was just gonna go with ferments safale 06 I believe.

Lcasanova, I like the idea of maple syrup. SWMBO is getting impatient I think so I don't know if I can wait a week for rice solids to be delivered, heh.

Thanks again!

Lcasanova said:

The changes I would suggest (I've not brewed a tripel)

-Instead of 6 lbs of sorghum syrup, I'd do a 50/50 blend of sorghum syrup and brown rice syrup (or rice syrup solids)
-I wouldn't use that much honey, as dorklord mentioned, it is an unknown and I'd like to reserve honey for an addition to add aroma rather than sugar content, but maybe that's just me- Instead, I'd use maple syrup, brown rice syrup, belgian candi sugar, corn sugar, or some other sugar to up the gravity
-Don't be afraid of using 1 lb of molasses, I've done it plenty of times. Most notably it brings out a slight chocolaty taste and certainly does add a nice bit of color to it. I find this pleasing
-+1 on saving the maltodextrine until bottling time, taste it and see if you want to add it. I put it in almost all of mine out of habit but I've never thought it had a detrimental effect on a beer, again- that's just me
-Consider adding belgian candi sugar in the brew and after fermentation starts. I've heard of the technique but I don't know the specifics but I have a feeling DKershner knows the answer to this

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I've got nothing against adding the molasses, I just *think* it is going to make the beer more dark than what one would call a 'tripel'. (I would think it would be great to provide color and deep flavors to a Dubbel. ) so it may end up being a great beer, just not a tripel.

My feeling is the same about the maltodextrin. It is a great ingredient, but it would be easy to go overboard with it in a tripel, so I would wait until after fermentation to try and see how much it needs.

Also, if you want to use honey, I'd use it for priming, as then more of the flavors will come through. From what I've been told, if you use it in the initial boil, the delicate flavors will be broken down, and you end up with basically just sugar.

digiteknique said:

Thanks for the replies

Dorklord, some solid points. Looks like I'll shy away from the honey, for yeast I was just gonna go with ferments safale 06 I believe.

Lcasanova, I like the idea of maple syrup. SWMBO is getting impatient I think so I don't know if I can wait a week for rice solids to be delivered, heh.

Thanks again!

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You may want to check your grocery store, as you may find rice syrup to use in jars. Some people use it as a sweetener, I guess? Honestly, I have no idea what you'd use it for besides beer. I don't know for sure if it is all gluten free...

Also, for the yeast...I'm cornfused. Fermentis WB-06 is a wheat beer yeast (I intend to try it one of these day). Is that what you mean?

Personally, I'd use T-58, as it should give the desired 'belgian' characteristics, and it can handle high alcohol.

Dorklord, it was actually the dry ale yeast 05, I just picked it up since it was GF. I am pretty new to the hobby, I'll pick up some of the other.

SWMBO isn't terribly sensitive to gluten, but we wanted to go as GF as possible. Do you think the hops I chose would work? It looks like I'm waiting for new yeast anyway so I'll order some rice while I'm at it.

It doesn't necessarily need to be a triple, but she tasted the triple I made that was glutinous and loved it.

digiteknique said:

Dorklord, it was actually the dry ale yeast 05, I just picked it up since it was GF. I am pretty new to the hobby, I'll pick up some of the other.

SWMBO isn't terribly sensitive to gluten, but we wanted to go as GF as possible. Do you think the hops I chose would work? It looks like I'm waiting for new yeast anyway so I'll order some rice while I'm at it.

It doesn't necessarily need to be a triple, but she tasted the triple I made that was glutinous and loved it.

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I'd probably defer to someone else on the hops, but I did a quick look survey of some tripel extract kits, and your hops seems reasonable to me.

One trick that can help when formulating a GF recipe is to look at an extract kit online, and copy the hops (and other 'seasonings') and then swap out the malt for GF malts...and the sticky at the top of this section lists some help in that department.

Some notes just from looking over your recipe:

• I actually like the use of that much honey, unlike everyone else. You might sub some for corn sugar or BRS if it is scary though. Also, consider switching some sorghum for BRS too, like others have mentioned.
• No molasses, save it for porters and stouts.
• No maltodextrin, you want this thing as dry as possible.
• Don't worry about adding sugar into the primary unless a) there is some flavor you really want to extract or b) you are going above 10% ABV.
• Hops look fine, since someone asked.
• Use S33 yeast, it is a belgian strain.
• Consider the use of coriander if you like that flavor, many tripels have it.

Also, in case you want to look over it, here is the GF Tripel I made and there should be plenty of tasting notes, including some after it had been in the bottle for more than a year. Casanova currently has the last bottle of it, too. It was one of my first gluten free beers.

DKershner said:

Some notes just from looking over your recipe:

• I actually like the use of that much honey, unlike everyone else. You might sub some for corn sugar or BRS if it is scary though. Also, consider switching some sorghum for BRS too, like others have mentioned.
• No molasses, save it for porters and stouts.
• No maltodextrin, you want this thing as dry as possible.
• Don't worry about adding sugar into the primary unless a) there is some flavor you really want to extract or b) you are going above 10% ABV.
• Hops look fine, since someone asked.
• Use S33 yeast, it is a belgian strain.
• Consider the use of coriander if you like that flavor, many tripels have it.

Also, in case you want to look over it, here is the GF Tripel I made and there should be plenty of tasting notes, including some after it had been in the bottle for more than a year. Casanova currently has the last bottle of it, too. It was one of my first gluten free beers.

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Do you dilute a sample of your honey to figure out the impact it will have on the gravity? Or do you just have a rule of thumb you go by?

I suppose maybe that's more of an issue when using honey for bottling, as you could end up with undercarbed beer or bottle bombs if you make a grossly inaccurate assumption about your honey, whereas in the boil, you'll just end up with a higher or lower OG than you expect...

dorklord said:

Do you dilute a sample of your honey to figure out the impact it will have on the gravity? Or do you just have a rule of thumb you go by?

I suppose maybe that's more of an issue when using honey for bottling, as you could end up with undercarbed beer or bottle bombs if you make a grossly inaccurate assumption about your honey, whereas in the boil, you'll just end up with a higher or lower OG than you expect...

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I have always had a yield of about 1.035 from honey. Slightly more than candi sugar and slightly less than BRS or Sorghum.

You guys are awesome. I think I'll chance the honey, and switch for a 50/50 on rice/sorghum. It will likely be bottled but it's gonna sit in secondary for a few weeks.

I'll switch the yeast for a better match. She also has the apfelwine fermenting currently so I think she may be patient(hopefully).

I'll update with some stats when it gets started.

Thanks again!

Ok, revised:

3lb sorghum(60 min)
3lb rice syrup(60 min)
1lb candi sugar(amber)(60 min)
1lb buckwheat honey (i think it will get the color closer and more anti-oxidants)(15 min)
1lb honey(15 min)
.75oz coriander (5 min)

1oz saaz 60 min
1oz saaz 5 min

Beersmith gives me the following estimates:
OG-1.062
FG-1.016
Color-10.8 SRM (on the light side, but acceptable)
14.8 IBU

The estimates are closer to a dubbel, but I think she might just like it.

Any revisions from here?

digiteknique said:

Ok, revised:

3lb sorghum(60 min)
3lb rice syrup(60 min)
1lb candi sugar(amber)(60 min)
1lb buckwheat honey (i think it will get the color closer and more anti-oxidants)(15 min)
1lb honey(15 min)
.75oz coriander (5 min)

1oz saaz 60 min
1oz saaz 5 min

Beersmith gives me the following estimates:
OG-1.062
FG-1.016
Color-10.8 SRM (on the light side, but acceptable)
14.8 IBU

The estimates are closer to a dubbel, but I think she might just like it.

Any revisions from here?

Click to expand...

That sounds pretty good to me. It falls below the usual OG of a tripel, but that just means it won't pack quite the whallop that a tripel usually does (1.062 is still strong!)

And in fact, the yeast should have an easier time handling that than they would something at 1.07 or 1.08, which means it should reach a drinkable state faster.

Also, I wouldn't sweat the color, as 1) every beer I've made with sorghum has come out a little darker than the 'calculators' say it will. 2) A tripel is supposed to be light in color anyway.

But in all, it sounds like something I'd drink. Heck, I might try brewing it myself (I'll probably just use straight up sugar instead of the honey, since I'd have to go the store for honey, and...well, lets face it, I'm lazy.) I was actually planning do do 4 brews over the next few weekends, and I was thinking of doing 2 wits, a tripel, and another run at an enkel/patersbier. Maybe I'll brew this, then brew a wit, and then make a second batch of whichever of those I like best.

Oh, and hopefully DKershner will chime in here and tell you if he thinks you should use any yeast nutrient or not. I know he's experimented with varying amounts more than me...

dorklord said:

That sounds pretty good to me. It falls below the usual OG of a tripel, but that just means it won't pack quite the whallop that a tripel usually does (1.062 is still strong!)

And in fact, the yeast should have an easier time handling that than they would something at 1.07 or 1.08, which means it should reach a drinkable state faster.

Also, I wouldn't sweat the color, as 1) every beer I've made with sorghum has come out a little darker than the 'calculators' say it will. 2) A tripel is supposed to be light in color anyway.

But in all, it sounds like something I'd drink. Heck, I might try brewing it myself (I'll probably just use straight up sugar instead of the honey, since I'd have to go the store for honey, and...well, lets face it, I'm lazy.) I was actually planning do do 4 brews over the next few weekends, and I was thinking of doing 2 wits, a tripel, and another run at an enkel/patersbier. Maybe I'll brew this, then brew a wit, and then make a second batch of whichever of those I like best.

Oh, and hopefully DKershner will chime in here and tell you if he thinks you should use any yeast nutrient or not. I know he's experimented with varying amounts more than me...

Click to expand...

Hi5

I have a glutenous tripel and red ale going now for me, this one is brewing tonight(supposed to have a pretty wicked snowstorm), and the hop heavy ipa is carbing in the keezer.

When SWMBO got me the kit for christmas I was a bit excited for it, then I tried my first tripel batch and was hooked. I told her once I figured out how, I would do GF brews. I am pretty sure she is excited, and I know I am.

This community overall is incredibly knowledgeable and helpful, and I think thats one of the key factors that makes this an addicting hobby for me. Big thanks to you, DKershner and Lcasanova. If you ever need some coding help, let me know, I have a bit more experience with that

The only change I would suggest is the timing of the honey addition. Honey is sterile by it's very nature, so there is no need to boil it at all. Boiling does break some of it's complex proteins down making it ferment easier, but I've never had any trouble fermenting it anyways. Boiling will also "cook" off any subtle or delicate flavors/aromas, which is especially important since you are going with a varietal honey for it's particular attributes. I add my honey near the end of the wort chilling phase to maximize it's impact.

Just a side thought you might consider using Coriander honey if you can find some since you are using it as a spice addition to build cooperative layers of flavor.

fermentedhiker said:

The only change I would suggest is the timing of the honey addition. Honey is sterile by it's very nature, so there is no need to boil it at all. Boiling does break some of it's complex proteins down making it ferment easier, but I've never had any trouble fermenting it anyways. Boiling will also "cook" off any subtle or delicate flavors/aromas, which is especially important since you are going with a varietal honey for it's particular attributes. I add my honey near the end of the wort chilling phase to maximize it's impact.

Just a side thought you might consider using Coriander honey if you can find some since you are using it as a spice addition to build cooperative layers of flavor.

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Do you have any issues with it dissolving? That is my only concern with adding it post boil.

There shouldn't be any problem adding only 1lb of honey post boil. I've added a whole lot more to a mead using cold water and gotten it to dissolve.

Nice recipe update by the way.

As far as yeast nutrients go, I almost ALWAYS add 1 tsp regardless of whether I am using sorghum or not. Just my .02

ditto what Lcasanova said. It will dissolve quite quickly if the wort is at all warm. I don't actually wait until the wort is completely cooled, just down to the warm range.

fermentedhiker said:

The only change I would suggest is the timing of the honey addition. Honey is sterile by it's very nature, so there is no need to boil it at all. Boiling does break some of it's complex proteins down making it ferment easier, but I've never had any trouble fermenting it anyways. Boiling will also "cook" off any subtle or delicate flavors/aromas, which is especially important since you are going with a varietal honey for it's particular attributes. I add my honey near the end of the wort chilling phase to maximize it's impact.

Just a side thought you might consider using Coriander honey if you can find some since you are using it as a spice addition to build cooperative layers of flavor.

Click to expand...

Coriander honey?

Very interesting...I wonder how that would be used for bottling...

Excellent. Will add honey during the cooling process. Man coriander smells fantastic post crush. I had no idea.

Thanks guys

dorklord said:

Coriander honey?

Very interesting...I wonder how that would be used for bottling...

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It has a very pungent flavor. I've never used honey in place of priming sugar. It would certainly work, although I don't know if you'd be adding enough to actually notice the difference. No reason not to try though

Well brew is done. Color is a bit darker that estimated and OG came in at 1.069. A bit higher than expected, probably the honey variable. I'll let you guys know how it comes out in a few weeks.

Just wanted to add that if you add the honey directly to the fermenter you dont need to care about it dissolving at all. The yeast dont care if it is in chunks, they arent that picky when it's feeding time.

Checked the SG today and it's at 1.032. I am concerned I have a stuck fermentation. Any suggestions?

Yes- let it be and check again in a few days

I had a feeling that would be the answer. I'll relax, stop worrying, and have a home brew

digiteknique said:

I had a feeling that would be the answer. I'll relax, stop worrying, and have a home brew

Click to expand...

Any update on your gravity reading? Interested in how this turns out.

Gravity was 1.013 when I transferred to secondary. It had quite a bit of sourness to it still, but I think that will dissipate given a bit more time.

I will update again when I bottle or keg.