New to Kombucha. Alternate method??

Hello all,

A friend of mine brews Kombucha all the time and is very experienced with it. Recently, I tried it for the first time and loved it. Well the container that my friend had brought to work had a little Kombucha left in it (maybe 1/4 cup) and he told me that if I brewed some black tea, added about 9 tsp of sugar, dumped in the remaining 1/4 cup of old Kombucha, and covered it up, I would get my own.

So I tried it last night. I couldn't believe it when I woke up this morning and saw cultures starting to form at the bottom of the pitcher and some starting to float to the top. My question is, will this method of making Kombucha work alright? I used no Scoby, nor did anyone donate their "mother" to me. I simply used about 1/4 cup of an existing Kombucha.

Sorry if it's a dumb Q, I just don't want anyone in the fam to get sick.

Cheers!

It does work! :rockin:

You're essentially growing your own baby SCOBY. I just did this same thing with a bottle of Kombucha from the store. It takes a little time (2 weeks or so) for a good sized scoby to form. Once it does, you can go ahead and brew up a full gallon batch, and toss in your newly formed scoby along with a cup or two of the starter liquid.

While brewing this new batch, another scoby will grow. In fact, every time you brew a batch, a new scoby will grow

Hmm... two weeks huh?

That is weird. My friend told me that it should only take a couple of days. Maybe he was mistaken and has never brewed a batch this way.

Also, when will I know it's ready to drink?

Everything I've read online says that i'll have to lift the SCOBY out of the Kombucha, put on a plate with some of the tea, and use for my next batch. I understand that.

But my friend says that the SCOBY is too soft to lift out, and when he removes it, he has to almost scoop it out with a spoon. Maybe he's doing it wrong?? I did taste his though, and it did have a cidery/vinegar sort of taste.

Any thoughts?

The two weeks is a general guideline. It takes everyone different amounts of time depending on the temperature and other factors.

The scoby should eventually be thick and strong enough that you can just take it out with your hand (make sure to clean your hand with starsan or vinegar and not antibacterial soap.

I'm still trying to figure out how to know when it's ready. I think most people either just do a taste test (dip a straw in, then put your finger over the opening of the straw and lift out to get a sample), or a ph test (once it reaches "3" it's done). Generally, once you have a formed scoby, I think they say it should take about 7 days, but again, that can vary.

Hey all - it used to be a great idea to grow a SCOBY from a bottle of Kombucha - since they reformulated it though, the SCOBY you grow is not the same. Here's more info if you're interested: MOD EDIT

Jwpj said:

But my friend says that the SCOBY is too soft to lift out, and when he removes it, he has to almost scoop it out with a spoon. Maybe he's doing it wrong?? I did taste his though, and it did have a cidery/vinegar sort of taste.

Any thoughts?

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If your SCOBY is not holding together, it is not a healthy specimen. The SCOBY is the home for your bacteria and yeast and it should be somewhat tough.

What your friend is making may be a version of Kombucha but it doesn't sound like full strength.

kombuchakamp said:

Hey all - it used to be a great idea to grow a SCOBY from a bottle of Kombucha - since they reformulated it though, the SCOBY you grow is not the same. Here's more info if you're interested: MOD EDIT

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Thanks for posting. First, I do want to mention I thoroughly enjoy the Kombucha Kamp website and the great information you provide there. However, I'm not so sure About this whole "post-reformulation" thing.

Yes, I'm one of the people you mentioned in the article that would come up to say they've successfully grown a SCOBY. It was the easiest thing in the world, and took very little time. I had a fully formed SCOBY in 2 weeks, and my 1 gallon batch finished fermenting in a mere 5 days!

Now, there is the other part of your argument:

"...those who are new to brewing won’t really know if they have a full powered culture at the end of the process."

I won't deny this, but similarly, I'm not sure you can really prove it (as you say in your article). Forgive me, but a few people saying "it doesn't seem as powerful or strong as pre-reformulation kombucha" isn't enough to convince me.

It sounds a reasonable enough assumption, but really, that's all it is: an assumption. And frankly, if it's a choice between a fully formed SCOBY for $25, or a bottle of Kombucha that I can grow a culture from for $4, I have to take the chance on growing my own SCOBY.

I happily concede that simply because I was able to grow one easily does not mean everyone will experience the same results. And I'm certainly interested in more complete findings of the difference between pre-formulation SCOBYs and post. But for now, I'll stick with this, since it seems to work.

Thank you for posting the article. I'm very curious to read more about this and find out the actual differences. I may very well need to buy a formed culture.

I grew my first scoby from a half bottle of commercial kombucha from Whole Foods. It took about 2-3 weeks. Now I can practically reproduce a full sized scoby with every batch, in about 7 days. A lot of it depends on the size of the starting culture. Just give it time to work.

onipar said:

Thanks for posting. First, I do want to mention I thoroughly enjoy the Kombucha Kamp website and the great information you provide there. However, I'm not so sure About this whole "post-reformulation" thing.

....

Thank you for posting the article. I'm very curious to read more about this and find out the actual differences. I may very well need to buy a formed culture.

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If you were to have a real SCOBY and brew against your reformulated SCOBY, you would see the difference. Here's another blogger that wanted to believe her grown one would be fine - until she got a real SCOBY:

"Here are the differences I noticed using the Kombucha Kamp SCOBY:

- Much less of those unappetizing yeast strands in the finished tea.
- Significantly more carbonation – the new SCOBY that formed at the top of the jar had lots of air bubbles, and the tea was fizzy instead of flat.
- Shorter brewing time by 2-3 days, which I would assume is because the SCOBY has had more than a month to grow.
- Stronger taste. It’s difficult to put it into words, but there’s a noticeable taste difference (for the better).

I was kind of secretly hoping that my homemade SCOBY would put the purchased one to shame, but I took one sip and had to wave the white flag. Hannah’s on to something with her kombucha."

MOD EDIT

If we were to do some kind of testing, that would cost $1,000's of dollars, which I don't have, how about you? I prefer the testing of real people, and just like baking a cake, if you have inferior ingredients you will have inferior final product.

Still, I understand the "good, better, best" idea and I know people are cheap - but when it comes to making a tonic for your health, it seems silly to mess around with cheap options. Just my .02 cents.

kombuchakamp said:

If you were to have a real SCOBY and brew against your reformulated SCOBY, you would see the difference.

...

Still, I understand the "good, better, best" idea and I know people are cheap - but when it comes to making a tonic for your health, it seems silly to mess around with cheap options. Just my .02 cents.

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Yeah, like I said, I'm not saying I don't believe you (or the people who have noted differences), but I'm one of those "show me the facts" sort of people, for better or worse.

It reminds me of the all grain versus extract debate that pops up in beer brewing circles. The idea of course is that because you're using grain to extract your own sugars (rather than using pre-made malt extract), it will make a "better" beer. This is not entirely true and has a lot of factors.

I'll probably end up buying a SCOBY just to see the differences for myself at some point. Maybe after a few more batches with my homegrown. If there's a huge difference, I'll be the first to say you're right.

But again, I didn't mean to question your assertions; I'm just naturally inquisitive.

onipar said:

Yeah, like I said, I'm not saying I don't believe you (or the people who have noted differences), but I'm one of those "show me the facts" sort of people, for better or worse.

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I can understand that - but in this case, the proof is in the pudding. No test from a lab could tell you if the Kombucha is better, only your tongue. Also the people who write in over and over to tell me how they've been brewing for years and had no idea Kombucha could taste so good. I really think a lot of people are drinking an imbalanced drink and have the wrong idea about how it should really brew and taste.

The difference from your comparison is that the bottled Kombucha on the shelf (unless it says "over 21 only") has literally been altered and when we talk about a living culture in symbiosis and we talk about Kombucha as a tonic that requires a certain amount of alcohol and a certain mix of acids, etc to thrive and be in balance, then we are really talking about a different drink. Better to buy and drink that than a soda of course! But if you're making it at home, nothing compares to a real culture.

We're doing our best to clear up the misinformation out there. Our goal is to get people to brew for a lifetime and we try to provide all the tools for success. Anyway, nice chatting.:fro:

kombuchakamp said:

I can understand that - but in this case, the proof is in the pudding. ...

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A little research supports what you've been saying (from http://www.organicprocessing.com/opjulyaug11/opja11Enterprise.htm):

To ensure that the beverage would be compliant to FDA guidelines and available to all, the company reformulated its original line to create a lighter version—GT’s Enlightened Kombucha. While at first Dave was concerned that reformulating would sacrifice the natural integrity of the beverage or compromise the company’s values, it was able to reformulate with only subtle changes. The new line, introduced in the fall of 2010, has the same probiotics and nutrients as the original kombucha line and is still unpasteurized or “raw.” One of the main differences is that it has a shorter shelf life to ensure that the product stays within the FDA-mandated .5 percent alcohol limit. Much tighter controls are now in place as well to prevent “temperature abuse.” Some strains of certain probiotics known to produce more alcohol were also reduced and the product has just a little less “bite” than the original version.

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My emphasis.

So according to that article, there are in fact some probiotics that were reduced, resulting in a slightly different taste.

Guess it's time to order a SCOBY.

Even without the quote from GT (and we have spoken with him ourselves about this topic: MOD EDIT) logic would lead one to wonder: if the reformulated version is not different, why do they bother to keep making the original? The taste is the proof. I appreciate your research! If you're interested, here's the article we wrote for BevNet about the recall: MOD EDIT

Happy Brewing! Would love to hear more about your experience.

Thanks for the extra links; I missed those. Oh, and absolutely. I apologize if I came off as simply being contrary at first, I'm just very new to Kombucha and wasn't even aware of the reformulation or that they had a "classic" counterpart.

I do youtube videos for my brewing, so once I get the SCOBY and have a side by side prepared, I'll probably do a video on it and link to it here.

Cheers!

This is hard to read with out the links

pwag said:

This is hard to read with out the links

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Oh, yeah it looks like the mods edited KombuchaKamp's links, most likely because that site (though very informative) sells stuff. I didn't want to devolve the conservation by saying anything, but the initial reason I was so skeptical of the claims being made was precisely for that reason: What KombuchaKamp was saying would cause people to buy their product rather than grow their own SCOBY.

Not long after posting here, I had corresponded with a rep at GT (initially just to find out when the "classic" flavor would be available in PA), but while on the phone I asked about the reformulation, and they told me it's the same SCOBY with a different brewing "process." The rep also said that it has the same amount of probiotics.

In fact, even after revisiting the quote I posted above, I noticed they said pretty much the same thing in the article I posted:

The new line, introduced in the fall of 2010, has the same probiotics and nutrients as the original kombucha line and is still unpasteurized or “raw.” One of the main differences is that it has a shorter shelf life to ensure that the product stays within the FDA-mandated .5 percent alcohol limit. Much tighter controls are now in place as well to prevent “temperature abuse.” Some strains of certain probiotics known to produce more alcohol were also reduced and the product has just a little less “bite” than the original version.

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They do later say something about "reduced" probiotics, but one would deduce that if the strains are present at all, further open air brewing would certainly increase those numbers.

Take it for what it's worth. There appears to be plenty of wiggle room for interpretation of the information that's available out there.

If you're interested in seeing the link they originally posted, most of it can be found on the Kombucha Kamp website on their blog section I think.

I started a SCOBY from a bottle of KTs original raw Kombucha. The KT I get from that SCOBY is milder and tastes a little watered down, even several generations later, than the stuff I'm getting from the two inherited SCOBYs I use.

I think that lends credence to the discussions of evolution of the ratios of microbes over time. I tend to let my cultures over-ferment, and that would likely increase the ratio of acid-tolerant and acid-producing microbes, leading to the extra "bite" in the batches from older SCOBYs.

CHERYLinND said:

I started a SCOBY from a bottle of KTs original raw Kombucha. The KT I get from that SCOBY is milder and tastes a little watered down, even several generations later, than the stuff I'm getting from the two inherited SCOBYs I use.

I think that lends credence to the discussions of evolution of the ratios of microbes over time. I tend to let my cultures over-ferment, and that would likely increase the ratio of acid-tolerant and acid-producing microbes, leading to the extra "bite" in the batches from older SCOBYs.

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So do you find that over time the SCOBYS change? The flavor of the resulting Kombucha changes too? Thanks!

"Last edited by Yuri_Rage; 07-10-2012 at 02:29 AM. Reason: advertising" Advertising? Linking to an interview with GT himself that we conducted, as well as a major beverage industry publication's front page story about the Kombucha recall is advertising? Wow.

so disappointing that the mods don't trust people here to be able to make their own decisions. the links we provided were informational, and only one even went to our site, the others went to an independent blogger and the other to the site BevNet which I wrote an article for but I do not own, they are a huge, very trusted operation in the beverage biz. anyway, it appears we won't be able to provide any backup but as you can see above in CHERRYLinND's post, there is validity to our statements. Her results have been repeated over and over (including in the blogger link we had inserted). As we said above, the proof is in the pudding. We receive e-mails all the time from people who buy a SCOBY and write in to say "I've been brewing Kombucha for (months, years, whatever) and it never tasted this good before. I always thought a culture was a culture." So we know it's true because we are the ones selling the cultures and getting the feedback. We did not even put links in our signature which presumably could go directly to our products and say anything we want. So clearly we came here to contribute information, not advertise. It is ironic that experts in a subject cannot be trusted because they sell that product. It used to be that knowledge was considered valuable, but we are so cynical now that nobody can be trusted.

Just like you can make a high quality hamburger from grass fed beef and freshly made cheese or you can buy a McDonald's cheeseburger, you can make high quality Kombucha or low quality Kombucha. It seems absurd to us to doubt that the quality of the SCOBY (or the tea, or the sugar, or the water, or the brewing environment) would change the quality of the resulting drink.

Anyway, we're not trying to upset anyone or trick anyone or break any rules. But dipping our toes into this community sure has gotten off to a rocky start. Not fun.

I have never taken any initiative for Kombucha but want to try out atleast once. Thanks for sharing this method

The problem with the variation that I see in my different batches is that there is no way to know which one is "right." Also, I don't know that my SCOBYs have truly changed, I was just speculating that the neglect I heap upon them may cause changes.

Sometimes, the brew tastes like it has a hint of honey, sometimes like apple juice. This often happens in the same batch of mini-brews. This makes me wonder how to more tightly adjust the KT culture, the amount of sugar and the amount of tea used.