12-12-12 Wee Heavy Recipe Formulation

I looks like everyone is planning on brewing something a little bit different. Atleast for the previous X/X/XX brews there was a pretty standard recipe that everyone followed. I guess I dont see the idea of everyone brewing the same style if it is going to be all different recipes. Slight changes like malt additions and different yeast can make a huge change in the final product, whereas before the only differences were the differences it everyones brew rig and style. Is it possible that we can nail down a recipe for everyone rather than just having everyone brew a wee heavy in any manner they please?

AlphaWolf-Brewery said:

I looks like everyone is planning on brewing something a little bit different. Atleast for the previous X/X/XX brews there was a pretty standard recipe that everyone followed. I guess I dont see the idea of everyone brewing the same style if it is going to be all different recipes. Slight changes like malt additions and different yeast can make a huge change in the final product, whereas before the only differences were the differences it everyones brew rig and style. Is it possible that we can nail down a recipe for everyone rather than just having everyone brew a wee heavy in any manner they please?

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You're digressing though... I tried to suggest what you're suggesting for exactly the same reason, and then people started threatening to back out of the swap so I dropped it. I haven't seen anyone post on this in awhile though. If its quiet for another week or two, ill be tempted to start an actual 12/12/12 thread with the following:

20 LBS mo OR gp (the only variable)
.5 LBS Crystal 60
.25 LB. RB
Kettle carmelization mandatory

TBH I'm a little dissapointed how quick this fizzled.

Im with you bottlebomber, the only variable should be MO or GP. And I like your recipe and second it. What yeast are you thinking? I am thinking 1728 for it should give some smoky characteristics.

I figured it fizzled because it was decided to roll a 98ish% MO or GP base, long boil kettle caramelization, and RB and/or some crystal for a little color. hops are mostly bittering so most non C-hops are ok, and 1728.

was I incorrect?

azscoob said:

I figured it fizzled because it was decided to roll a 98ish% MO or GP base, long boil kettle caramelization, and RB and/or some crystal for a little color. hops are mostly bittering so most non C-hops are ok, and 1728.

was I incorrect?

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I guess I dont understand, are you stating you think it fizzled because this recipe is not 'jazzy' enough for most people?

AlphaWolf-Brewery said:

Im with you bottlebomber, the only variable should be MO or GP. And I like your recipe and second it. What yeast are you thinking? I am thinking 1728 for it should give some smoky characteristics.

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I've already got the 1728 in the fridge. Ill be going with what I wrote up, but I can't speak for anyone else. If 3 people wanted to brew it that way we could all at least swap with each other. I dunno its KBs thread so let's wait for him to chime in

azscoob said:

I figured it fizzled because was decided to roll a 98ish% MO or GP base, long boil kettle caramelization, and RB and/or some crystal for a little color. hops are mostly bittering so most non C-hops are ok, and 1728.
I didn't know it was actually decided. Last I was paying attention people were throwing recipes around, talking about oak and smoked malts and then nothing for like a week. If the recipe is decided, then someone *cough* brian*cough* needs to start the actual 12/12/12 thread since the recipe has now been formulated.
was I incorrect?

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I asked about this on the poll thread and never got a response. What are the details of the swap? I might take a crack, but I don't want to commit verbally without knowing what is entailed.

How do you ship? How many bottles? Etc.

I like the idea of a bunch of guys making the same recipe and letting the process produce variation. Sounds like fun--very scientific. I bet there are a lot of new people who might be into the whole thing--depending on the details of the actual swap.

I'm not sure it has fizzled. It seemed like the decision was to be a little flexible on the recipe, and to brew it sometime in November. We're not trading it until 14 months from now, correct?

corncob said:

I asked about this on the poll thread and never got a response. What are the details of the swap? I might take a crack, but I don't want to commit verbally without knowing what is entailed.

How do you ship? How many bottles? Etc.

I like the idea of a bunch of guys making the same recipe and letting the process produce variation. Sounds like fun--very scientific. I bet there are a lot of new people who might be into the whole thing--depending on the details of the actual swap.

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That's the whole fun of it IMO. Seeing the difference that water chemistry and brewing practice can make. I think typically how this works is you would send 4-12 ounce beers (I usually do bombers but for this ill use 12s) to 2 other people, and likewise 2 people send you beer. Along with the 4 beers you could also include any local/homebrew that you think someone would enjoy. For example I live 45 minutes from RR so id try to aquire some Pliny that everyone is always worshipping.

AlphaWolf-Brewery said:

I looks like everyone is planning on brewing something a little bit different. Atleast for the previous X/X/XX brews there was a pretty standard recipe that everyone followed. I guess I dont see the idea of everyone brewing the same style if it is going to be all different recipes. Slight changes like malt additions and different yeast can make a huge change in the final product, whereas before the only differences were the differences it everyones brew rig and style. Is it possible that we can nail down a recipe for everyone rather than just having everyone brew a wee heavy in any manner they please?

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This^^. It's the reason I've lost interest in this. What's the point? I know what the style tastes like, exactly what is there to learn about with all these variables?

AlphaWolf-Brewery said:

I guess I dont understand, are you stating you think it fizzled because this recipe is not 'jazzy' enough for most people?

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No, I figured it fizzled because the recipe was settled to be what I posted more or less, some rogue honey malt additions here and there, but overall I got the vibe that it was settled so the discussion sort of ended.

The only issue I would have with a by the pound recipe is some folks have limited access to some ingredients, but for me to get over 1.1 on a batch means I base it off 70% eff, where some others may need to go way bigger on the grainbill to hit the mark with their process so keeping the recipe as a simple percentage ratio and a target OG made the most sense to me.

Not jazzy enough of a recipe is what I feel happened. Whatever happens I have my recipe nailed down and I'm just waiting until November to brew.

I'm brewing 7.5 gal so I can have three full cases for bottling. I'm looking at this:
28lbs MO
6oz Roasted Barley
6oz Extra Dark Crystal (like 170L)
30 IBUs with Nugget
ECY07 Strong Scotch Yeast

I originally was only going to use Roasted Barley but we talked about using dark crystal so I decided to use a little. Since no one could agree on anything I just did my own thing. Very easy and plain with a yeast that not everyone can easily get. I don't think I'll be using oak in mine. I am hoping to get everything I want from the yeast and malt. In fact I will probably just let this thing ferment out, bulk age in the keg at near freezing temps for a week or two then package. Let it age the year in bottles and then swap it up.

The MO/GP base should be the only variable allowed.

What is a good OG? 1.1 or so?

Crystal malt? if yes how much percentage wise?

Roasted Barley? if yes how much percentage wise?

We agree on 1728 (or WLP028 I would guess for those who can only get White Labs).

We agree on 120 min boil.

We agree on kettle caramelization.

Hops at 45 min and 35 min? what should the target IBU be?

Oaking or barrel aging as an option used at the brewers discression yes or no?

I think we should hash out these remaining details and post the official recipe.

Well, ok, just my 2 cents, but I don't get a lot of homebrew variations on a wee heavy. So I'd like to see what one taste like with and without smoked barley, and with and without crystal malt. I'm curious whether there's a significant difference between MO and GP. So I'd much rather give brewers the freedom to do what they think is best and be able to compare what they do to what I do. If the recipe is identical for everyone, including the mash and boil procedure, then the only variances in the brews will be due pretty much to quality control. It's not particularly exciting to get a brew from someone else in the mail that supposed to be identical to yours, except the sender isn't good at maintaining fermenter temps, is it?

I could crack the wallet for shipping 4 bottles.

But I agree that the recipe should be standardized, or the fun is gone. I think OG, grain percentages, yeast, IBUs, and at least a hop family should be the same.

Personally I like the simpler version: GP, a handful of RB, and a ton of carmelization, but I will defer to the consensus view.

bottlebomber said:

I've already got the 1728 in the fridge. Ill be going with what I wrote up, but I can't speak for anyone else. If 3 people wanted to brew it that way we could all at least swap with each other. I dunno its KBs thread so let's wait for him to chime in

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It's not my thread! I'm just going to sit back and let you guys hash it out. I'll go with the flow.

KingBrianI said:

It's not my thread! I'm just going to sit back and let you guys hash it out. I'll go with the flow.

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Man I thought you started it... dunno where I got that. Probably because you owned it

corncob said:

I could crack the wallet for shipping 4 bottles.

But I agree that the recipe should be standardized, or the fun is gone. I think OG, grain percentages, yeast, IBUs, and at least a hop family should be the same.

Personally I like the simpler version: GP, a handful of RB, and a ton of carmelization, but I will defer to the consensus view.

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Ill ditch the crystal if everyone else does.

I'm all for no crystal here.

I'm cool with no crystal meth.

So there's a desire to have a single recipe again? I thought we had all agreed to not agreeing on a single recipe.

My original idea was to have MO base and 2.5% Roasted barley with 35ibus of an earthy hop.

smokinghole said:

So there's a desire to have a single recipe again? I thought we had all agreed to not agreeing on a single recipe.

My original idea was to have MO base and 2.5% Roasted barley with 35ibus of an earthy hop.

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I think this works, I can live with no crystal. So if we take this we need come up with an OG, oak or not and then the yeast we want to use.

I'm at the point now where I don't really want to try and hash out a single recipe again. I think the small amount of crystal was a good little insurance policy for people scared to boil their wort down too far. That way if they don't go far enough the crystal is there at least to help out. I don't know how much insurance my 6oz of extra dark crystal will bring but I am also comfortable with the wort boil down since I've done it a few times.

If you guys at this point decide to try and convince the masses of a single recipe I'll go with the flow. So if its different that what I have planned I'll be brewing up two wee heavy recipes I guess. Good thing I have a whole other sack of MO, but I could also just get some GP for a second batch.

Hows this for an idea on the base grain. I briefly thought about splitting the base grain on my recipe 50/50. So I'd be doing 14lbs GP and 14lbs MO.

I assumed the recipe was pretty much decided on and it was up to the individual to deviate a little or not. I'm fine either way and will be participating in the swap whatever the decision is.

I already have everything I was intending to use for this: GP base, 2% RB, EKG to ~30 IBU, Wy1728. If everyone wants to add the dark crystal I can certainly pick some up, but my vote is no on the crystal.

Ok let's see if we can get at least 3 or 4 people to agree on this:

MO or Golden Promise (amount variable according to your systems efficiency)
.25 LBs RB
1.095-1.105 OG
1.018-1.025 FG
35 IBU
Wyeast 1728

If anyone else want to add crystal, peated malt, oak, heather or scotch whiskey they can do so, but it would be cool to get at least 3 people on board with this, so we can do a swap based around a unanimous recipe.

I can second that recipe. And I guess I could live with some people adding some of the others you listed as long as it was advised on the swap so we could try and taste the difference.

I'm down for the above recipe... seems simple enough.

The swap would be 2 bottles of the wee heavy + 2 bottles of something else (homebrew) per contributing person?

MO or Golden Promise (amount variable according to your systems efficiency)
.25 LBs RB
1.095-1.105 OG
1.018-1.025 FG
35 IBU
Wyeast 1728

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I'm in. What was the previously-mentioned volume of first runnings to boil down? Is there a desire to specify MO or GP? Or do you intend to say that either one is acceptable?

I'm down with that recipe. I already have a sack of GP, so that's what I'll be using. I do think the RB content should be by percentage rather than specifying .25 lb, but I guess an ounce or so either way probably won't matter much.

As for the swap, I'd be up for the 2 bottles each to 2 others with a couple other things tossed in.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/12...e-formulation-271379/index13.html#post3352996

That is the previously agreed upon guide for the recipe. It gave wiggle room since no one was agreeing on crystal or smoked malt. I felt the point was to see how the brewer does with the recipe. The message I received was "because they will all be different who cares if the recipe is slightly different". So with that said I just decided to go with and plan on the wiggle room recipe as a guide instead of a set of instructions. I get to use the yeast I want, the hops I have, and the grain I already bought.

I can't believe this discussion is still going on, I thought we agreed upon some parameters several pages back?

If I'm not "allowed" to deviate from the recipe at all, such as oaking or adding some smoked malt, I will not be participating. I still don't see what the big deal is.

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commonsenseman said:

I can't believe this discussion is still going on, I thought we agreed upon some parameters several pages back?

If I'm not "allowed" to deviate from the recipe at all, such as oaking or adding some smoked malt, I will not be participating. I still don't see what the big deal is.

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Its not a question of trying to control what you brew, its just that some of us are interested in swapping brew from the same recipe. I'd like anything to come out of this since it will all probably rock, but if possible I'd like to try 2 others from the same recipe. Seems do-able, since several people have supported the idea. Brew what you like, go with SHs original post.

bottlebomber said:

Ok let's see if we can get at least 3 or 4 people to agree on this:

MO or Golden Promise (amount variable according to your systems efficiency)
.25 LBs RB
1.095-1.105 OG
1.018-1.025 FG
35 IBU
Wyeast 1728

If anyone else want to add crystal, peated malt, oak, heather or scotch whiskey they can do so, but it would be cool to get at least 3 people on board with this, so we can do a swap based around a unanimous recipe.

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Looks good to me. (close to my original plan anyhoo) I will be in on this recipe, hopefully an 11g batch split with 5.5g going into the whiskey barrel. if its a go on 11g then i will commit a bottle of each to the swap.

I'm down with BB's recipe. I'll brew to that.

I'm with BB's recipe also- will brew in a few weeks

Of course you could let smokinghole and I brew with ECY07 and then you could all harvest a hard to find yeast from our bottles - esp. if we also included a Freshly brewed 80/- along with the Wee Heavy......

I'm on board to brew BB's recipe. Will brew it as soon as I can get my hands on some 1728.

Nice. Now there's at least enough people that some of us can swap the same recipe. Again, everyone brews what they want, but at least some of us doing the same recipe can be matched up.

commonsenseman said:

I can't believe this discussion is still going on, I thought we agreed upon some parameters several pages back?

If I'm not "allowed" to deviate from the recipe at all, such as oaking or adding some smoked malt, I will not be participating. I still don't see what the big deal is.

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You are allowed to deviate all you want, but that's not the purpose of this swap. The purpose of this is to brew the exact same recipe so everyone can experience how the same recipe can be different.