High Gravity 100% Brett stalled

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jfolks

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Semi-experienced brett brewer here, but I've never brewed a high gravity 100% brett beer - curious to hear if anyone else has had an experience like this.

Brewed five gallons of high gravity (1.080) saison - mashed at 146 (other than 15% rye, rest was two row/vienna and a touch of acid malt for ph), pitched ~350 billion cells of 2nd generation Amalgamation (Yeast Bay - 6 strains of brett). Fermentation was already VIGOROUS the next day (fermented at 70F). At the end of week 1, brought temp up to 74. By end of week 2, krausen was totally gone- brought temp up to 80. Two weeks after brew day, I went to bottle and the SG was a whopping 1.048. I've never had a beer (including 100% brett beers) only attenuate 50% in two weeks - so this was really shocking to me. Can anyone (with decent brett experience) comment on this? I could see a 100% brett beer taking 3 weeks, but 50% attenuation in ideal conditions after 2 weeks seems weird. Does brett struggle in high SG environments? (brett alcohol tolerance is reported to be 18%)

After discovering it was "stalled" I went ahead and roused the brett back into suspension with a racking cane (which has never done ANYTHING when I've tried it in the past with sach beers) - and I noticed decent air lock activity the following morning. Does everyone think this may solve the problem - or should I consider pitching another [fresh?] pitch/strain of brett (or even sach - like wyeast 3711)?
 
UPDATE: Rousing the brett may have made a difference - airlock is still bubbling away at a decent pace.

However, it turns out I may have underpitched (AKA - that it wasn't ~350 billion cells after all). I mislead myself on the Yeast Bay website - I thought that the Amalgamation tube had 60 billion cells. Turns out it only had 2 billion cells! (D'oh!) The crazy thing is, I fermented 2 gallons of 1.054 wort down to 1.010 in only two weeks by just pitching the vial (no starter). So by my calculations, I grew it up to about 50 billion cells (which I pitched into the imperial saison I'm talking about in the first post).

So perhaps this post is now about underpitching [imperial] 100% brett beers - does anyone have a comment on my next steps? Will it ferment on its own? Should I pitch more brett? Or pitch a french saison sach into primary?
 
Not that anyone cares (since I'm the only one posting in my own dang thread, lol), but I just found this on Milk The Funk:

Typical characteristics of Brett primary fermentations (these are generalizations, and may not be true for every strain):
Slightly longer primary fermentation in general (3-6 weeks), although some people have reported faster fermentations between 1-3 weeks for some strains and conditions (lower starting gravity beers, for example)


This seems to explain why my previous 100% brett beers fermented quickly/normally and why my imperial brett beer wasn't even close two weeks in.

However, I'm still dying to know what others think about such a low pitching rate. Tonsmeire - I know you're out there! Care to chime in?
 
i can't really help you but i can tell you my experience:

i fermented 5lt (1,3gal) of 1072 wort (for the others 20 liters i used wyeast 1214)

for the brett part i made a 1lt starter with a pack of wyeast 5526 (brett lambicus)
for the sacc part i made a starter and pitch the right ammount of yeast.

the brett part start to ferment hard the day after, the sacc part take longer

the brett part finish before the sacc part but higher (1010 for brett 1008 for sacc)

the brett drop on the bottom very quickly and the beer result crystal clear
the sacc part take longer to clear

here the brett version:

2015-09-23 19.30.01.jpg
 
The beer went down another 12 points 10 days since my first post (at 1.038 now) - about 3.5 weeks post brew day at this point (went ahead and stirred some yeast back into solution, since brett loves that). What do you all think - is this thing gonna ferment on it's own?
 
About 8 weeks later - this beer is getting really good! 73* - 1.014. Smells and tastes like a brett beer, almost like a lambic (has more body/sweetness compared to modest gravity 100% brett beer - more sour than other 100% brett beers I've brewed). Also - now it has some brett-in-secondary-type bubbles/mini-pellicles on it.

I went to Wolves and People recently and spoke to the brewer (guy that used to brew at Prairie and opened a farmhouse brewery outside of Portland). He recommended low pitching rates for 100% brett beers. I told him I pitched about 50 billion cells into 5 gal of 1.080 wort, and he said he would have pitched even less. Milk the Funk, Tonsmeire, Yakobson, et al., recommend hybrid or lager pitching rates for 100% brett beers on the other hand.

This has been a fun experiment!

To recap: contrary to much of the literature out there, pitching brett (in 100% brett beers) at lower than standard ale sach rates - while perhaps taking longer than lager pitch rates - will eventually ferment out and will make one hell of a funky beer!
 
Interesting. I wonder where the sourness is coming from. Amalgamation is an all yeast blend, right?
 
They've said on the Sour Hour that 100% brett beers can still make "sour beers" (and that the old rule "brett does not make beer sour on it's own" is probably not always true - granted brett creates a different type of sourness, as opposed to that from pedio and lacto). Given that opinion, I think the sourness comes from the stressed fermentation environment (high gravity, low pitching rates). Yes, Amalgamation is a 100% brett blend (6 different types of brett B)
 
Came home from a trip, and found quite the pellicle on top. Has anyone else experienced this in a 100% brett beer?

pec.png
 
Interesting. I wonder where the sourness is coming from. Amalgamation is an all yeast blend, right?

Personally I associate 100% Brett beers with "tartness" since every single commercial 100% Brett beer I've bought has been pretty tart. Not sour like a typical sour beer (lambic, Flemish red, oud bruin, Berliner weisse, Gose, etc.), but still quite a bit more "sour" than a non-sour/non-"wild" beer.

I'm not sure exactly what it is though, because it doesn't taste like lactic acid or acetic acid (yes, Brett doesn't produce lactic acid). And, although Brett does produce acetic acid in the presence of oxygen, the tartness in 100% Brett beers isn't like acetic acid. It doesn't have that vinegar quality. Maybe it's from some of the esters that Brett produces...
 
I have several 100% BrettC beers. Yes they form a pellicle. They take time to finish and they act more like a sacc yeast when using only Brett. The flavor profile is more fruit than funk. Given enough time they will likely finish up around 1.004-1.010.
 
2 months after brew day, the imperial brett saison was down to 1.010. Went ahead and bottled one bottle, and racked the rest into several different secondaries (oak, cherries, black berries, bitter orange peel/coriander) - this beer is amazing!
 
I'm a week primary fermentation with Brett L for a flanders red that I kettle soured. It took off like a rocket after pitching my starter that I stepped up for a few weeks. After five days, bubbling seized and it appeared that there was no longer any floc activity. I took a reading and it's sitting at 1040 (OG was 1060). Do you think I should go with the racking cane stir every once in a while, as you did? Or do you think just letting this sit will eventually get the FG down towards 1010? How often did you re-suspend the yeast with a racking cane?
 
Yeah just let it sit, I've read to allow a month for primary with Brett.
 
Some pretty interesting updates on my kettle sour:

I checked the gravity last night, and it got down to 1020 with my swirling it a few times each day. I was happy with that and am going to let it sit for two more weeks to develop a little more Brett character.

I figured I would give it one last stir with my racking cane to try to help it get a little more attenuation. I woke up to almost 2 inches of new krausen on the top of the brew! I think it's safe to say this yeast still has a few more rounds in it.
 
I think any "sourness" the OP thinks he is getting from this is either
1) due to an infection which occurred during the continuous gravity readings over the +2 month fermentation
2) (more likely) Brett creates acetic acid in the presence of oxygen. Given the length of the fermentation and the number of times the vessel was opened for a gravity reading, I would bet this is the case
 
How did that 1 bottle you bottled end up? I'd assume it kept fermenting from 1.010 and it will be REALLY carbonated when you open it.
 
Might be a silly question because I am still learning, but wouldn't you want to halt fermentation on that? If it is in fact still going down in Gravity wouldn't you want to put some potassium sorbate in it or cold crash so you don't lose all your body?
 
Might be a silly question because I am still learning, but wouldn't you want to halt fermentation on that? If it is in fact still going down in Gravity wouldn't you want to put some potassium sorbate in it or cold crash so you don't lose all your body?
Nope. Brett beers are supposed to be low in body (IMO). This beer had tons of body though, considering the high OG/FG.


How did that 1 bottle you bottled end up? I'd assume it kept fermenting from 1.010 and it will be REALLY carbonated when you open it.
Funny, I'm not sure if I ever drank it. To the cellar!
 
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