Thinking (again) about BIAB

It's been a few months and a lot of research since the first time I learned about this method & I'm wondering if I was over-complicating it before... I'm wondering if this will work:

I have an 8 gallon kettle with ball valve from Morebeer, they're kinda short and stocky so right off the bat - if anyone knows of a nylon grain bag that will fit around the rim of this kettle, can you let me know?

1. Heat 6 gallons to strike temp w/ bag in the kettle
2. Add grains, stir, cover

*might possible insulate my kettle a bit with towels, etc. at this point... but I know from recent experiments that it does hold temp fairly well

3. When mash is complete, fire up burner to mash out temp
4. When mash out is done, place grain bag in colander
5. Use the ball valve to grab some additional liquid to pour over grains
6. Dump spent grains and proceed with boil as usual

I'm thinking I either need to find a bag that I know won't hit the bottom when it's filled with grain or invest in a false bottom... since I'm going to be direct fired.

Anyone see any other issues with this approach?

You could buy some Voile nylon fabric and make your own BIAB bag to fit the kettle. I'd go with a false bottom or use a SS colander to keep bag off the bottom. The Voile bag I made for my MLT does an excellent job of giving me clear chunk free wort. Most of the pre-made bags I have bought were big but never quite the right size for my set up.-

I have never done BIAB, but the one issue I see is that you aren't using enough water in the process.

For the sake of an example, let's say that you are making a beer with 10lbs of grain. That 10 lbs of grain will absorb and retain about a gallon and a half of water. So, you'll have just 4.5 gallons at the end if you started with 6 gallons.

Also, when you say

5. Use the ball valve to grab some additional liquid to pour over grains

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Are you saying that you are going to use wort to rinse the grains? I don't know how well that will work because the wort will be laden with sugar already.

Thats pretty much what I do, but, I don't direct fire. If I wrap the kettle in an old sleeping bag, it holds temp enough. I purchased this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002EWZWAU/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 it was enough material for 2 bags, the bags need to be large enough to fit your kettle inside. Also see: http://www.beersmith.com/blog/2009/04/14/brew-in-a-bag-biab-all-grain-beer-brewing/ for the process I use.

The way I have heard it described, you put all the water in the pot (both mash and sparge water). Then you soak the bag in the water at the mash temp for the length of the mash or whatever. Then your remove the bag let it drain into the pot and start the boil.

They recommend a 10 gallon pot size for making a 5 gallon batch.

Walker said:

I have never done BIAB, but the one issue I see is that you aren't using enough water in the process.

For the sake of an example, let's say that you are making a beer with 10lbs of grain. That 10 lbs of grain will absorb and retain about a gallon and a half of water. So, you'll have just 4.5 gallons at the end if you started with 6 gallons.

Click to expand...

I said 6 gallons because that's my typical pre-boil volume for extract... I was afraid 7 gallons + grains would overflow my 8 gallon kettle

Sounds like I'm going to have some issues with kettle size. Thanks for the replies...

maida7 said:

The way I have heard it described, you put all the water in the pot (both mash and sparge water). Then you soak the bag in the water at the mash temp for the length of the mash or whatever. Then your remove the bag let it drain into the pot and start the boil.

Click to expand...

That's the Aussie no-sparge style--calliing it "both mash and sparge water" doesn't really make sense, as it's all mash water (without a sparge, there is no sparge water).

DeathBrewer's got a sticky describing the alternative, where you do sparge--if you're going to do that, you separate out mash and sparge water per usual.

You could just experiment and make a batch that fits your kettle size. The largest volume will be the mash. I have 5 gallon pot and the mash is full to the brim with 5 or six pounds of grain doing 2.5 gallon batches. Once I pull and drain the bag there is plenty of head room for the boil. I also use a SS collander in the bottom of the pot to add heat for the mash out.

SumnerH said:

That's the Aussie no-sparge style--calliing it "both mash and sparge water" doesn't really make sense, as it's all mash water (without a sparge, there is no sparge water).

DeathBrewer's got a sticky describing the alternative, where you do sparge--if you're going to do that, you separate out mash and sparge water per usual.

Click to expand...

I'm aware of all that. I was just trying to put it in terms that people already understand.

Let me clarify - I am talking about Aussie-style, not DeathBrewer style (although I have read his method and I do like it).

you can get 'game bags' for cheap at the local sportsman shop bass-pro, cabelas, etc. They're meant for dragging dead moose, elk and deer out of the bush, but they're the perfect size for various brew-day tasks, incl. BIAB.

They're also good for storing potatoes and onions

Burgs said:

Let me clarify - I am talking about Aussie-style, not DeathBrewer style (although I have read his method and I do like it).

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I think you will need a bigger pot to make a standard 5 gallon batch. A 10 gallon is probably the minimum size. Have a look on the Aussie boards they will give you the 411.

maida7 said:

I think you will need a bigger pot to make a standard 5 gallon batch. A 10 gallon is probably the minimum size. Have a look on the Aussie boards they will give you the 411.

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Ditto on the needing a bigger pot. I have a 10 gallon pot and my 6.5 gallon preboil batches with 12 lb of grain are within an inch of the top of the rim. Going with separate mash and sparge would work well...and you dont even need another pot, you can just dump your mash-ed liquid into a bucket while you're sparging. Think there's a sticky on that method too.

I was looking through the cabinets in the kitchen last night and found a 16 qt. pot. This got me thinking about partial mash & using it to hold my sparge water.

If I got a 5 gallon economy kettle (like the one I started out with way back in the day), I could mash in that w/ my grain bag, heat sparge water in my 4 gal, then take everything outside to my bigger pot to boil on the burner... could be cool. Kinda wanting to make northern brewer's partial mash oatmeal stout...

prosper said:

you can get 'game bags' for cheap at the local sportsman shop bass-pro, cabelas, etc. They're meant for dragging dead moose, elk and deer out of the bush, but they're the perfect size for various brew-day tasks, incl. BIAB.

Click to expand...

Just try to stay away from using the bag for both uses! :cross:

your process sounds pretty good except i would leave out the adding wort back to the grain.I've tried adding water back through the grain and i dint really notice a difference except it being a pain in the ass. just grind the grain fine, mash long enough, and then squeeze. As for water retention it isn't really that much i don't know exactly how much water i loose but it really isn't all that much after i drain and then squeeze. and finally i have a 15 gal pot from Austin home brew and my limit is 17-18LB of grain with a water ratio of .65gal to lb

Trouble_Brewing said:

Just try to stay away from using the bag for both uses! :cross:

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what? That's how you make an authentic moose head clone.

Or Moose Drool Brown Ale clone!

Mmm... Moose Drool...

+1 to adding something to keep it off the bottom. False bottom is a good approach if you use whole hops.

You can keep the kettle small if you heat some water separately on the stove and pour it slowly over the bag.

-1 to using wort to sparge with. Sugars flow from high concentration to low concentration. This won't happen if you sparge with an isotonic solution. Sparge to your boil volume with 168f water.

Burgs said:

I was looking through the cabinets in the kitchen last night and found a 16 qt. pot. This got me thinking about partial mash & using it to hold my sparge water.

If I got a 5 gallon economy kettle (like the one I started out with way back in the day), I could mash in that w/ my grain bag, heat sparge water in my 4 gal, then take everything outside to my bigger pot to boil on the burner... could be cool. Kinda wanting to make northern brewer's partial mash oatmeal stout...

Click to expand...

Kinda sorta what I do, except I use a 5 gal cooler to mash in. Heat the mash water (in my kettle) a few degrees past strike temperature, then pour into the cooler. Add the bag and then stir in the grain. Heat the sparge water in the kettle, dunk the bag with grains into that, stir, let set, stir, remove bag and grains, set in spare bucket to cool off a little. Mix mash and sparge in kettle, and boil. When the grains cool down enough, squeeze the crap out of them, and add that to the kettle as well. If you have an 8 or so gallon pot, all you need is a round 5 gallon cooler, which is probably cheaper than another kettle.

Burgs said:

It's been a few months and a lot of research since the first time I learned about this method & I'm wondering if I was over-complicating it before... I'm wondering if this will work:

I have an 8 gallon kettle with ball valve from Morebeer, they're kinda short and stocky so right off the bat - if anyone knows of a nylon grain bag that will fit around the rim of this kettle, can you let me know?

Click to expand...

I just did my first BIAB in an 8gallon pot, recipe was 11lbs of grain. I used about 7 gallons of strike water and the grain came to the lip. I don't think I could do any more than 11 in the current pot size.

For material, I went to Hobby Lobby store and bought 2 yards of 100% polyester sheer curtain and a spool of nylon thread. Sewed up a double bag that fit over the pot and handles. It was tight enough that I didn't need clips or anything to hold it in place. You definitely want something to keep the bag from moving so you can stir your mash. You'll also want something to hang the bag from; there's a lot of wort to be had in the bag beyond just letting it drip.

Burgs said:

1. Heat 6 gallons to strike temp w/ bag in the kettle
2. Add grains, stir, cover

*might possible insulate my kettle a bit with towels, etc. at this point... but I know from recent experiments that it does hold temp fairly well

3. When mash is complete, fire up burner to mash out temp
4. When mash out is done, place grain bag in colander
5. Use the ball valve to grab some additional liquid to pour over grains
6. Dump spent grains and proceed with boil as usual

I'm thinking I either need to find a bag that I know won't hit the bottom when it's filled with grain or invest in a false bottom... since I'm going to be direct fired.

Click to expand...

I ended up wrapping the pot with bubble foil wrap and covered the top with a couple towels. I still ended up needing some heat and I didn't have anything to keep the heat off of the bag, but it turned out to be fine for me; didn't scorch the bag or anything though I was constantly stirring the mash while heat was applied.

I didn't do a separate sparge, but I did start with close to 7 gallons (worked out to about 2.5 quarts per lb). With out the separate sparge, squeezing the snot out of the bag is highly recommended to ensure you get enough wort out of the mash for the intended boil volume.

i did my first BIAB two days ago. no sparge method. simply let the bag drain and squeezed it gently. i double crushed the grain. double crushed grain does not absorb as much water (half as much or less) so take that into consideration as well. i ended up with more pre-boil volume as a result. efficiency 70%. added DME to hit target. the beauty in the whole deal was the cleanup. one vessel to clean and a bag of grain to toss in the soybean field next to my house. also was about 1.5 hours shorter than a "normal" brew day.

If you have a decent sized pot already (don't buy one just for this purpose) you can dunk sparge for a few points efficiency increase. That was my problem with BIAB, though. I never had enough volume with my small kettle if I didn't sparge, but I didn't really have another pot to get a proper sparge on. I always destroyed my kitchen in the process.

prosper said:

you can get 'game bags' for cheap at the local sportsman shop bass-pro, cabelas, etc. They're meant for dragging dead moose, elk and deer out of the bush, but they're the perfect size for various brew-day tasks, incl. BIAB.

They're also good for storing potatoes and onions

Click to expand...

Like this?

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Delu...AllProducts&Ntt=game+bag&x=0&y=0&Ntt=game+bag

that's the deluxe canvas bag. I'm sure it would work, but I usually use the cheap nylong bags, like these http://www.cabelas.com/product/Alas...archForm&search=game+bag&x=0&y=0&Ntt=game+bag

prosper said:

that's the deluxe canvas bag. I'm sure it would work, but I usually use the cheap nylong bags, like these http://www.cabelas.com/product/Alas...archForm&search=game+bag&x=0&y=0&Ntt=game+bag

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Now THAT'S more like what I'm after Thanks! Do you know what size would fit a converted keg? I got some 5gal paint strainer bags at home depot, just a few bucks for a 2pack to find out it won't fit my keg. They were so cheap I don't even want to return them, maybe I'll just use them to line my 48qt mlt cooler if I ever use that again.

I just checked with my local Cabela's and they've got them in stock. I think I'll go for the 4pack for 9.99, the economy is 1.99 but I figure for a lil more may as well get the stretchable ones. Great find thank you!

Nikobrew said:

Now THAT'S more like what I'm after Thanks! Do you know what size would fit a converted keg? I got some 5gal paint strainer bags at home depot, just a few bucks for a 2pack to find out it won't fit my keg. They were so cheap I don't even want to return them, maybe I'll just use them to line my 48qt mlt cooler if I ever use that again.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure what size you'd need. Any of them would work, I thing - they're pretty stretchy