Natural gas brew stand - 23 tip burner to 10 tip conversion build.

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I have to ask.... why the hell use a burner that you have to modify to this degree, when you can use a burner that can be tamed down to a simmer if needed?

I realize the multijet is cool looking, but as soon as I realized it was too much for burner for the application, I moved on to another choice. What made you guys choose the multijet if you have to plug over 50% of the jets to make it work in your application?
 
Paraops said:
I have to ask.... why the hell use a burner that you have to modify to this degree, when you can use a burner that can be tamed down to a simmer if needed?

I realize the multijet is cool looking, but as soon as I realized it was too much for burner for the application, I moved on to another choice. What made you guys choose the multijet if you have to plug over 50% of the jets to make it work in your application?
Click to expand...

I think part of it is that the selection of readily available NG burners is quite limited. That's why I initially tried multi-jet burners, but after a lot of experimenting I couldn't get them to burn cleanly AND over a reasonable range of adjustment.

OTOH, lots of guys have great success with them. Where propane tanks/regulators are a known quantity, there is a lot of variation with natural gas hookups...service pressure, pipe size and length, etc. The same gear isn't going to work the same in every situation.
 
Paraops said:
I have to ask.... why the hell use a burner that you have to modify to this degree, when you can use a burner that can be tamed down to a simmer if needed?

I realize the multijet is cool looking, but as soon as I realized it was too much for burner for the application, I moved on to another choice. What made you guys choose the multijet if you have to plug over 50% of the jets to make it work in your application?
Click to expand...

They make 10 tip burners: Low Pressure Burner 58,000 BTUs Natural Gas | MoreBeer but it cost $40 more than the 23 tip burners you can get from resturant supply stores, and a couple of bucks to plug the extra burners is no big deal. Mine works perfeclty fine with plenty of adjustability. I'd much rather use natural gas that is much cheaper and I have an unlimited supply, so no worries about ever running out.
 
Runyank said:
Now... what kind of burner should I get? Will a boyou classic work with NG without any modifications?
Click to expand...

No, you would have to modify it, propane uses a much higher gas presure than natural gas.
 
I bought both 23 & 32 tip NG burners last summer. Small and Medium. I run them directly off the main line to my hot water heater. I think I patched in 1/2" pipe...

The 32 tip's blue flame is about 20" tall or more. The 'smaller' burner's flame is almost as big. Thank god I didn't buy the large 44 tip burner!

I like the idea of removing a few tips to reduce the intensity of these burners in order to dial in your system.

And, I'm encouraged by the rest of you guys. I think I'll either run hose out to my back porch or look into a more permanent solution. I'm thinking of putting in a grill anyway.

It gets unbearably hot in the garage so the brewery will have to be moved outside for this upcoming summer.
 
BlindLemonLars said:
I think part of it is that the selection of readily available NG burners is quite limited. That's why I initially tried multi-jet burners, but after a lot of experimenting I couldn't get them to burn cleanly AND over a reasonable range of adjustment.

OTOH, lots of guys have great success with them. Where propane tanks/regulators are a known quantity, there is a lot of variation with natural gas hookups...service pressure, pipe size and length, etc. The same gear isn't going to work the same in every situation.
Click to expand...


Did you go back to Propane or did you find a better NG burner?
 
dunleav1 said:
Did you go back to Propane or did you find a better NG burner?
Click to expand...

For my main boiler, I use a hurricane burner with a replacement natural gas orifice & valve from Williams Brewing. For my HLT, I bought a small propane burner from an agricultural supply house, and drilled out the orifice to work with NG. Overall, I'm pretty happy with the setup.

[youtube]U5UAvgP-pyY[/youtube]
 
I like it. I see a conversion in my future. It doesn't look like the same btu capacity as the multijets though so I know that I'll want to split the strike water heating between two vessels and that the sparge water will have to go on flame as soon as I start the mash.
 
Bobby_M said:
It doesn't look like the same btu capacity as the multijets though so I know that I'll want to split the strike water heating between two vessels and that the sparge water will have to go on flame as soon as I start the mash.
Click to expand...

I'm certain it's not the same BTUs as the multi-jets...probably nowhere near the same. Still, it seems to be more than adequate. I light the HLT burner first thing, and by the time I've measured/milled the grain, weighed the hops, etc, it's up to strike temp. Once I've mashed in, the HLT is immediately refilled. When it's reached sparging temp, it's easy to dial the flame down to hold it steady until needed.

The best part is not having to scrub soot off my kettles, that was getting really old when using my multi-jets!

With summer and the associated pool parties and BBQs coming, I'm gearing up for 10 gallon batches. Hopefully the same burners will be up to the task. I'm pretty sure the hurricane is capable, but I'll probably need an upgrade for a larger HLT.
 
Bobby_M said:
I like it. I see a conversion in my future. It doesn't look like the same btu capacity as the multijets though so I know that I'll want to split the strike water heating between two vessels and that the sparge water will have to go on flame as soon as I start the mash.
Click to expand...

Bobby,
Are you using the multi jet burners? Are you getting the yellow flame - soot problems as well?

BlindLemonLars - Do you brew in an area with wind? How do the hurricane burners hold up ?
 
dunleav1 said:
BlindLemonLars - Do you brew in an area with wind? How do the hurricane burners hold up ?
Click to expand...

I get a fair bit of wind, and I'd say the hurricane handles it a lot better than the multi-jets. Still, I made a simple windscreen out of a piece of aluminum roof flashing, which also serves to concentrate the heat a bit.
 
dunleav1 said:
Bobby,
Are you using the multi jet burners? Are you getting the yellow flame - soot problems as well?

BlindLemonLars - Do you brew in an area with wind? How do the hurricane burners hold up ?
Click to expand...

I don't have any soot problems but I also live within the small flame adjustment range the produces a clean blue flame. You can see that the hurricane has a lot more range.
 
Do not drill out the holes! Just thread in the valve you linked to, it contains an orifice that is appropriately sized for NG. Should you wish to run it on propane at some point, you just need to switch back to a stock valve/orifice assembly.

BTW, Northern Brewer carries the Hurricane for $33.99, and it ships under their $6.99 flat rate. (It weighs a ton!)

My gas stub is 1/2", but it's connected to a BBQ quick-disconnect and a flexible 3/8" hose. I could probably get even better performance with 1/2" hose all the way, but I need to share the feed with my BBQ grill.

I also brew outside, and I think you'll want good windscreens with just about any kind of burner. With the multi-jet, it was tricky providing adequate wind protection without starving it of oxygen. I'd move the shields in, and watch the blues flames go yellow and sooty! Without shields, the slightest gust would blow out individual jets and they wouldn't always relight themselves...I'd walk by and notice a strong gas smell and have to relight manually.
 
I just got this same burner that BlindLemonLars is using. So far, I'm using it for propane but am working on getting my NG stub ready. I went with the Williams Brewing one because I wanted the stand and propane regulator/hose/orifice. This way, it's still portable for when I brew at a friends house. I just switch out the orifice and grab my propane tank. I figured by the time I build a stand and buy the stuff locally for propane, it'd be the same price as the pre-built one anyway. Of course, if you're putting it in a brewstand, go with the Northern Brewer one.

I haven't tried it with NG yet but so far, I am in love with this new burner, so much better than my cheap, old turkey fryer.
 
ajwillys said:
I just got this same burner that BlindLemonLars is using. So far, I'm using it for propane but am working on getting my NG stub ready. I went with the Williams Brewing one because I wanted the stand and propane regulator/hose/orifice. This way, it's still portable for when I brew at a friends house. I just switch out the orifice and grab my propane tank.
Click to expand...

Once you get rigged for natural gas, let us know how the performance compares to propane, as I've only used the former. Hey, on the stand mounted version, how far is the top of the burner from the bottom of your kettle? Mine is kind of shoehorned into an old Bayou Classic stand, and I think I need to get it closer to the kettle if I want to do 10 gallon batches.

Beernip, I've never timed it but I definitely get 7 gallons to boil in a reasonable time. (It helps that I light the burner while I'm still sparging.) But like I was saying, I think I could increase the performance by raising the burner a few inches.
 
BlindLemonLars said:
Once you get rigged for natural gas, let us know how the performance compares to propane, as I've only used the former.
Click to expand...

OK, I got my NG stub done. I'm using 25' x 1/2" hose. I get 5 gallons of water from 65 to boiling in 23 minutes. I haven't yet tested propane so scientifically yet. I'll do it right now and report back.
 
Done with the propane test..... still 5 gallons of water, same 65 degree starting temp, still going to boiling. It finished in a grand total of 21 minutes! I'm frankly a little shocked with how close the two came out.

Anyway, I'm pretty happy with the performance of the NG and propane. In the end, the NG was more expensive to set up since I had to put a stub in my garage (tee'ed off the water heater) and a long hose but the convenience and cheaper price of gas more than makes up for it.

Did I mention this burner is near silent? It's wonderful!
 
aj, could you explain what you had to buy for a NG setup? Between the burner, valve, gas hose (I have a ng gas disconnect for a grill outside).

Do you have to do any other tweaking/conversion to get it to run right?


I've been trying to follow the ng threads, but I'm not sure what's the best way to go about getting there.

I apologize if I missed something obvious somewhere
 
Sure, I didn't really do a whole lot... if you have the NG stub, you are mostly there. I bought the replacement valve at Williams Brewing for natural gas:

HURRICANE CONVERSION VALVE @ Williams Brewing

That screws into the hurricane stove instead of the propane one. It's basically the same exact thing with a slightly larger orifice. Then, you pretty much need a hose to go between your NG stub and that new valve. I made one out of a really heavy duty air hose (I know, probably not recommended, but it's 2 freakin' PSI NG). As I mentioned before, it's 1/2" ID x 25' and seems to work fine.

That is honestly it. I didn't drill anything, tweak anything, add a regulator, or anything crazy like that. Just a hose and a new valve.

The only important thing to note is that this is for this particular stove only. A similar stove MAY work, but the catch is that it must be one that is designed for low pressure.
 
ajwillys said:
Done with the propane test..... still 5 gallons of water, same 65 degree starting temp, still going to boiling. It finished in a grand total of 21 minutes! I'm frankly a little shocked with how close the two came out.
Click to expand...

Excellent, thanks for the comparison! I've got a run of 3/8" hose and a quick-disconnect (so I can continue to plug in my grill) between the 1/2" stub and my rig, so I'm likely not getting the same gas flow as you. But it's nice to hear that the performance is pretty much equivalent between the two fuels.
 
cool! That's what I thought. I've been trying to decide if I want to mess with my propane turkey fryer to try to convert it to NG, but if I can just get the new burner and a valve, that is probably a better option
 
BlindLemonLars said:
Hey, on the stand mounted version, how far is the top of the burner from the bottom of your kettle?
Click to expand...

Hey,
Just realized I missed this question. I will try to remember to measure when I get home. It definitely feels pretty close though, almost too close. Guessing off the top of my head, I would say probably 2.5 inches.
 
ajwillys said:
Hey,
Just realized I missed this question. I will try to remember to measure when I get home. It definitely feels pretty close though, almost too close. Guessing off the top of my head, I would say probably 2.5 inches.
Click to expand...

Thanks...I didn't want to bug you again about it! I'm just curious to know what the manufacturer considers to be the correct distance.
 
Well, my construction and architecture jobs through high school/college must have been good for something because I nailed the measurement. From tip of the burner to bottom of the kettle is exactly 2.5 inches. I still think its a little too close though. I get alot of flames shooting out the sides and it seems like alot of BTU's are lost this way.
 
ajwillys,

Are you using keggles or a kettle with a a flat botttom. I just lit the first fire on my brutus clone and I have the hurricanes mounted 3.5" down from the frame and it took me 40 minutes to go from tap water of 42 degrees to boiling. I am running my supply line 1/2" to a 3/8" qd 12' bbq hose line I know I am on the 1/2 psi side of the main house reg. Are you running your supply on the 2 psi side aka right off the meter?

sorry for all questions just loooking to be able to do 10 gallon batches and not have it take all day
 
I'm using an aluminum kettle. It has a flat bottom and I also know aluminum heats faster than steel. I don't know where I'm at as far as PSI goes. I tee'ed right off the hot water heater supply. It's 1/2" supply, but I don't know whats behind the wall there. As far as I know, there is no other regulator other than the giant one outside by the meter that is supplied by the gas company. I only have gas heat and hot water, perhaps that tells you something?

In your test, I assume you also used 5 gallons? I would guess the extra 20 degrees to take another 5 minutes and the keggle to add maybe 5 minutes also.

Next time I use it, I can take a pic of the flame size but that will be awhile because I'm leaving for a week (cruise) and will not be back brewing until at least the end of April.
 
Hey thanks for the reply. It looks as my flame is clear blue and about 1.5- 2" I know I can only run two burners at once, once the third one is fired all seem to just go to low, but I dont really see the need to have all three at full steam all the time.
 
I just bought this burner.

I'm wondering if it's really necessary to plug all but 10 tips?
Wouldn't it be just as effective to increase the distance between the burner and the kettle? With a good wind shield are there any reasons this wouldn't work?
 
Brewer_Steve said:
I just bought this burner.

I'm wondering if it's really necessary to plug all but 10 tips?
Wouldn't it be just as effective to increase the distance between the burner and the kettle? With a good wind shield are there any reasons this wouldn't work?
Click to expand...

The first time you fire it up, you'll understand. With all tips firing, it's like a freakin' supernova! The first time I lit mine, I literally staggered backwards, stunned by the billowing column of heat. It's quite impressive.

The only way to effectively limit the output is to remove tips...simply reducing the gas supply results in yellow flames and soot on your kettle. That's why I eventually gave up and went with the hurricane burner.
 
These multi-jet Chinese wok burners are highly over rated IMO. They have an air fuel ratio designed for wide open throttle and the mixture is not adjustable and that is why they burn so poorly at low settings. They do look impressive obviously, but again IMO, they are poorly suited for use by us home brewers. Bling, bling aside, there are better burners to be had for less bucks. It's kinda like grain mills and chillers. Everyone is happy with the one they have and think it equal or superior to any others no matter what. Human nature I guess.
 
So, I went to the BBQ shop and picked up the hardware necessary to hook up the 23 jet burner. The BBQ guy told me that he had the same burner and uses it for big lobster boils.

Anyway, I wasn't able to find the M8 fine threaded bolts I need to plug up 13 of the jets, so I decided to hook up the burner and try it as is. The store that carries the bolts is open on Monday, so I'll get them then.

Well, when I lit it, I didn't see blue flame like I was expecting. In fact, I didn't see any flames at all. I got hit with a huge wave of heat. I could see the heat coming off the burner, but no flames. What does that mean?? There was a slight breeze today. Perhaps that had something to do with not seeing the flames.
 
It's rather hard to see the flames in daylight. Light it up again this evening. Then, turn the gas valve down and watch the flames go all orange and sooty.
 
Very interesting thread, I have NG too and am planning a 2 tier sculpture build and would love to go with NG. Not only do I grill with charcoal but have no propane tank so I'd have to buy and refill it just for brewing. The Hurricane looks as if it may be the better option. BTW I plan to do 10 gallon batches mainly using 15 gallon Megapots. So are there any safety valves or anything needed besides the burner/orifice and a ball valve?
 
Not sure what you mean by safety valves. I don't have any. The only 'safety' thing I would be worried about is if you have kids or something that might open the ball valve to the stub and leave it open. The make ball valves with a removable handle for this purpose
 

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