California Fires

I hope that all of you in Northern Cali are hanging in there with the fires. This is the nearest fire, but the picture speaks for itself.

Yeah, we had some crazy smoke on the Peninsula (south of SF) last week, but the wind has shifted and I haven't smelled any for a few days.

Check this out. Things are worse this year than any June in memory. Mendocino county has twenty fires that have no firefighters assigned. To many fire and not enough rescources.

http://www.fire.ca.gov/downloads/incidents/StatewideFireMap_070208_AM.pdf

That sucks big time. It's a shame folks can clear deadwood from forests out there.

There are a bunch of fires close by here, but Chico is down in the valley so we're safe (famous last words). However, the air quality sucks...last week was so bad you could only see 2-3 miles if that much. Hopefully, they will be able to get control of these fires soon, and people can return to their homes. However, I hope that people will think a bit more before building their homes in the middle of a pine forest with no fire break.

Unfortunately, fire season has just started and it is acting like late July or August. Currently 18,000+ firefighters are committed to fires in California alone. See this for fire potential map:

yeah it sux. my friends and i have been trying to plan camping trips, but all of our usual spots were recently on fire! that wouldn't be much fun. oh well, at least we didn't get caught up in one!

We've been getting all kinds of smoke up here in Portland. There's an orange haze to the air and it looks like LA, air-wise.

We have had 3 pretty large fires in the mountains here in the last month. People are a little on edge and there is an even larger one going on in Big Sur.

I wish it would rain.

Hang in there, West Coasters!

I wouldn't do the wildland firefighting bit for anything. At least if I'm in a structure fire and the **** hits the fan I can get out. My hat's off to 'em.

My business partner lives in the Oakland Hills. She just finished scraping her property to bare soil. The fines for not doing so are major.

My area's fire season started a couple weeks ago: NO open fires, period. Not even burn barrels. We've had some smoke from the Eastern Oregon fires, but nothing local.

Florida to the rescue.
Just found out that we are sending some firefighting helicopters from my National Guard Unit out there to help out. Should see them in a couple of days.
Hope that they are able to help out quite a bit.

In CA, Wildland firefighting is part of the job description. The sign you see as you enter CA reads: “Welcome to California, it has been 0 days since the last natural disaster”

I don't get it. This happens annually. Are there no state programs for this?

I have only been to the west coast a few times but, the annual fires support my assertion that California is the stepping stone to hell.

Man I feels sorry for you guys out there.....thats just insane.

I guess you could boil your next batch sans propane though

GilaMinumBeer said:

I don't get it. This happens annually. Are there no state programs for this?

I have only been to the west coast a few times but, the annual fires support my assertion that California is the stepping stone to hell.

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I wish there was a "troll" flag I could attach to your post...

Just an FYI though, THIS kind of fire doesn't happen here annually. Typically, there will be a couple big fires throughout the season, but nothing that compares to this number. A huge thunderstorm rolled in a few weeks ago and started 823 fires (no, that's not a typo). 823 f$%king fires!!! Most of these have now combined, but this number of fires at a single time is historically unmatched.

Oh, and I almost forgot to clarify...PARTS of California are indeed the gateway to hell. Next time you're out come visit Yosemite, Lassen Park, the Trinity Alps, or the Lost Coast. Those places are so quiet you can actually hear and see the true earth over the raucous din of humanity. Los Angeles, Sacramento, and San Francisco are not areas by which to judge an entire state. And I'm sure you wouldn't like to start a comparison on state merits...since your sig mentions the wonderful? metropolis of OKC.

EDIT: All that talk of parks got me surfing :
Lost Coast Hiking
Trinity Alps
Yosemite Hikes

TwoHeadsBrewing said:

I wish there was a "troll" flag I could attach to your post...

Just an FYI though, THIS kind of fire doesn't happen here annually. Typically, there will be a couple big fires throughout the season, but nothing that compares to this number. A huge thunderstorm rolled in a few weeks ago and started 823 fires (no, that's not a typo). 823 f$%king fires!!! Most of these have now combined, but this number of fires at a single time is historically unmatched.

Oh, and I almost forgot to clarify...PARTS of California are indeed the gateway to hell. Next time you're out come visit Yosemite, Lassen Park, the Trinity Alps, or the Lost Coast. Those places are so quiet you can actually hear and see the true earth over the raucous din of humanity. Los Angeles, Sacramento, and San Francisco are not areas by which to judge an entire state. And I'm sure you wouldn't like to start a comparison on state merits...since your sig mentions the wonderful? metropolis of OKC.

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That's fine flag my post as Troll. IDGAF but the fact is EVERY year there are big fires in California. All I was asserting is that you'd think there would be more preparedness for this.

State merits? Compare away.........

Been to Coma CA before. Doesn't get much quieter than that. Still felt like I was on the doorstep. Of course, if it makes you feel any less attacked, I think NY is Purgatory.

I'm just laughing at the turn this thread has taken. I've been to both state's being compared, and not just a for a day or two and I think every place on earth has it's crap and it's gems. Stop the pissing contest.

As for the fires, on my flight back (whoo back in the states!) I landed in Vancouver BC and there was even smoke up there. I was confused at first until I got back into Oregon and someone told me it was from the fires. Normally big fires are controlled and sometimes left burning because it's necessary for the forest growth patterns (see the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponderosa_Pine) so yeah, we do have very well established organizations, government programs, and private firms that handle these things. What's happening in California is very abnormal. Huge storm, way too many spread out fires, and strong winds. Those conditions don't happen often.

It gets a lot of press coverage nowadays because more people are moving into these areas outside of the metro centers and so they have to evacuate people in places where normally no one lives.

The current fires are a bit like the flooding in the Mid-west. Plan all you want, nature can scale any event past what people can deal with.

GilaMinumBeer said:

All I was asserting is that you'd think there would be more preparedness for this.

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One of the previous posts had an inaccurate statistic that stated 823 fires. The actual figure is over 1,700 fires with over 18,000 firefighters engaged in the firefighting effort.
Cal Fire is the largest fire department in the country and has a lot of firefighters, fire engines, air tankers, helicopters and dozers and is widely regarded as the best all-risk firefighting organization in the world. Even with the massive mutual-aid response to these incidents, there simply are not enough firefighters and equipment available to handle this many fires.
Cal Fire, has cancelled all days off, the department has temporarily hired retired firefighters, hired over a thousand additional firefighters, trained the National Guard to help, using National Guard aircraft, hired private helicopters, dozers and called for mutual aid from all of the neighboring states and all counties and cities in the state. There simply isn’t enough resources to fight over 1700 fires at the same time.

Now compare California’s firefighting effort to the mayhem and chaos that occurred after Huricane Katrina. There is no looting, riots, people stranded without help. California can and will, handle these natural disasters in the way we do, like professionals.
http://www.fire.ca.gov/communications/downloads/fact_sheets/Glance.pdf

As A SO. OR native who's lived with forest fires all my life (parents place has been seriously threatened 3 times in the last 10 yrs), I agree that more needs to be done.

If we invested some federal money in clearing the DENSE undergrowth that has accumulated in the west under Smokey the Bear's 60 year reign of terror, we could make some progress. With summer firefighting costs often reaching the billions, we would only benefit in the long run. Each year as we cleared more fuel, we could let more wild fires burn unchecked, as they would not be so catastrophic, this would keep the restored forests clear of fuel, and slowly but surely reduce firefighting costs.

There are already tax incentives for homeowners to clear their property. Why not invest a little in our future, into a program that would eventually become cash positive?

BTW, it's like LA X2 nere in Medford/Ashland

Sea said:

As A SO. OR native who's lived with forest fires all my life (parents place has been seriously threatened 3 times in the last 10 yrs), I agree that more needs to be done.

If we invested some federal money in clearing the DENSE undergrowth that has accumulated in the west under Smokey the Bear's 60 year reign of terror, we could make some progress. With summer firefighting costs often reaching the billions, we would only benefit in the long run. Each year as we cleared more fuel, we could let more wild fires burn unchecked, as they would not be so catastrophic, this would keep the restored forests clear of fuel, and slowly but surely reduce firefighting costs.

There are already tax incentives for homeowners to clear their property. Why not invest a little in our future, into a program that would eventually become cash positive?

BTW, it's like LA X2 nere in Medford/Ashland

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I wish more people wanted a proactive approach you describe. Unfortunately, here in CA the pro-growth crowd funded by the building lobby keeps putting houses and lives in areas that nature designed to burn. In areas like rural San Diego, the locals don’t want to stop building in the path of fire and cry when their houses burn. As a firefighter, when the alarm sounds, we are required to protect lives and property, regardless of the politics. Unfortunately, letting fires burn in California won’t work in most areas. There are simply too many homes and lives in the areas that used to be open country. The public as a whole wants their houses protected and letting fires burn is no longer an option.
So far, the only thing that has limited development is the insurance industry. Without the availability of fire insurance, large developments cannot be built and insurers don’t want to write policies in high and extreme fire danger areas.

calpyro said:

Now compare California’s firefighting effort to the mayhem and chaos that occurred after Huricane Katrina. There is no looting, riots, people stranded without help. California can and will, handle these natural disasters in the way we do, like professionals.

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Sorry, but as a firefighter (like yourself) who's worked in urban and rural environments, these events are apples and oranges. Not like Cali hasn't had their fair share of riots... and apparently their fair share of shortcomings. It sucks all over, my friend.

I hear there's a few states in the midwest that get many tornadoes every year, yet every year they're surprised when whole towns disappear....

Thank god all I have to worry about here is lethal earthquakes, active volcanoes and filthy hippies.

EvilTOJ said:

I hear there's a few states in the midwest that get many tornadoes every year, yet every year they're surprised when whole towns disappear....

Thank god all I have to worry about here is lethal earthquakes, active volcanoes and filthy hippies.

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I'll to that! Oh yeah,.... and fires.

earthquakes, active volcanoes

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It will be interesting when Mt. Hood cuts loose again. I've seen claims that in the past, flows got most of the way to Seattle.

I'm waiting for the Big One in New York. Manhattan Island has been described as a pile of peanut butter on a cracked brick.

FireBrewer said:

Sorry, but as a firefighter (like yourself) who's worked in urban and rural environments, these events are apples and oranges. Not like Cali hasn't had their fair share of riots... and apparently their fair share of shortcomings. It sucks all over, my friend.

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The shortcomings of the San Diego fire happened long before the fires started. Those areas have burned for thousands of years, and when fires start driven by hurricane force winds, nothing is going to stop them. I was at the fires in San Diego, and nothing, could have been done to stop those fires. Not more engines, or firefighters, or airtankers, or helicopters. Nothing.
San Diego is the worst example of urban planning in the entire USA, for houses built in areas that are meant to burn. The cries of the residents that the fires were not managed properly are sorely misguided. Good urban planning is the only weapon that can combat the wildland fires that rage in Southern California.
This is the only quote of value that I could find in that article:
“Critics contend that the Board of supervisors of San Diego has failed to adequately improve fire protection manpower and equipment, while allowing rampant development in fire-prone areas. The County also recently approved a controversial shelter-in-place policy, allowing developers to build projects in back country communities, even box canyons, without having to provide secondary access routes for escape in case of fire, creating potential death traps if a fire exceeds the ability of firefighters to control it.”

The fallout of the fires is a perfect example of people not taking responsibility for their poor choices. If you build your house in an extreme fire hazard areas that have a history of extreme fire behavior, your house is likely to burn. It is just a matter of time. Sometimes the fire department can’t put fires out until nature lets them. That’s not the firefighters fault.

calpyro said:

The fallout of the fires is a perfect example of people not taking responsibility for their poor choices. If you build your house in an extreme fire hazard areas that have a history of extreme fire behavior, your house is likely to burn. It is just a matter of time. Sometimes the fire department can’t put fires out until nature lets them. That’s not the firefighters fault.

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Or if you build in Hurricane prone ares, or below sea-level, or....


If private insurance doesn't exist, or is too expensive, oh I don't know,... DON'T BUILD THERE!

Update on the northern california fires:

The Camp Fire is among 1,780 blazes that have scorched more than 614,000 acres in California in the last two weeks. Most of the fires have been caused by lightning strikes.

There were still 330 active fires Tuesday that were being battled by about 20,000 federal, state and local firefighters using more than 1,400 engines and 97 helicopters, authorities said.

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CNN story link

We've been lucky so far, only two fires here that required planes

The fires have been crazy. I can't remember anything like this. I have friends that lost their house and a couple vehicles in the Trabing fire a few weeks ago. We have been under the red haze of smoke for like 3 weeks. Every time it seems it's going to go away a new fire starts.

I read that Mt. Rainier is also way overdue for a massive eruption. Brewtopia will need to put on his asbestos pants in that case. I soo cannot wait for the big one to hit SLC. There's an active fault line that runs along the length of the Wasatch Front. Most of the city is built on what used to be Lake Bonneville an ancient inland sea. So of course it's all sand and mud. Mmmmmm... liquefaction.....