1st time cider - in process

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

popnfrresh

Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2010
Messages
19
Reaction score
1
Location
us
This would be the first time making cider. I went out to a local mill and got 5 gallons of cider, unpasteurized, and no additives. The apples were gala, empire and another one I forgot. I cleaned out the 6.5g glass carboy using bleach and water and ensured all the bleach was cleaned out. I checked the SG/OG with a refractometer and it was off the chart ( > 1.070 ). I put all the fresh cider into the carboy and added a very, very small amount of brown sugar (<0.5 cup). I am looking to go around 9-10% ABV :rockin:. I placed 5 campden tablets in the carboy, or 1 / gallon, I forgot to crush them. I made sure to stir the cider every couple of hours to try and help the tablets dissolve quicker.

After 48 hours I placed http://www.mountainhomebrew.com/browseproducts/Wyeast-4766-Cider-Yeast.HTML the yeast in the cider and stirred the cider again.The air temp in the room is about 65 deg. I haven't noticed anything going on in the carboy. No gas, no action, no foam.

1. How long should this take to start up?
2. Is there any other information anyone needs to help?
3. How do I go about carbonating the bottles without blowing them up? I read through http://greatentrance.com/index.html and multiple other sites on how to do this but im still a little lost. I didn't see an exact amount of sugar to add to the solution before bottling, but after the last rack.
4. I also just picked fresh raspberry's and wanted to add them. I wasn't sure when to add them either. I heard if added early they lose the flavor and taste weird.

Any information would help. Thanks in advance!
 
1. The wyeast smack packs take about 12-24 hours to get going. It did puff up when you smacked it, right?
3. check out the sticky on bottle pasteurization
4. I usually add the raspberries a day or two before I crash it. If you are not going to crash, add after racking to secondary.
 
Thank you for the reply.

I did crack it, but I did not give it three hours to puff. I guess I should have waited a little longer. The directions stated it could be pitched right away and did not have to wait.

I read the pasteurization thread but unfortunately im still a little confused. I was going to let the cider ferment, rack and then complete fermenting, and rack again. Then I was going to add sugar to the mix and bottle the next day. I wasnt sure how much sugar to add nor when to look at the bottles. Is pasteurization needed or can it just be left out?
 
I always wait for the smack packs to puff up, not sure how long it will take if you dont. How long ago did you pitch? If it doesnt start soon, I'd recommend repitching with an ale or wheat yeast. I've used the 4766 and wasnt much impressed. YMMV.

What you are describing is essentially a bottle conditioned dry cider, in which case, no you dont need to pasteurize. Only add enough sugar to prime the bottles. You only need to pasteurize (or cold crash and keg) if you want a sweet carbonated cider, in which case it will taste better if you stop the fermentation before it completes (so that you still have some residual apple sugar), rather than backsweetening.


In my experience raspberries dont work as well in a dry cider as they do with a little bit of residual sweetnes. YMMV.
 
there's a priming calculator here http://www.tastybrew.com/calculators/priming.html
3 - 4 oz is about right depending on how fizzy you want it.

I've never seen cider with that high a natural gravity, it's possible it was a misread. I understand that refractometers can have issues when there are a lot of particles suspended in the liquid, as there usually are in fresh cider.

I wouldn't start worrying about the yeast for another 24 hrs at least, as is often repeated here, yeast can take up to 72 hrs to start.
 
Hello, I'm another newcomer. I wanted to ask about my first batch as well, but I thought this would be better than starting a new thread. I've just gotten into homebrewing, and this is my first attempt at anything. I've looked a few different sites and guides on making cider, but I still had questions. I wish I knew someone who lived nearby to show everything to me, but I don't, so I'm just doing everything I can, and hoping my first batch doesn't suck.

I mostly used the directions on this page as a basis.
http://www.savvyhousekeeping.com/?p=680

I'll try to provide as much information as I can about what I changed. I don't have a cider press, so I had to use store bought juice. It's Treetop brand, from concentrate, with no preservatives or additives. I got it off of the shelf, though after I bought it I noticed some of the bottles actually said apple cider and some of them said apple juice. I tried to look up the difference, but couldn't find anything conclusive. I noticed that had the same makeup, and the same nutritional information, so I put them in together, 5 gallons total. I added in 1/2 pound of light brown cane sugar. I made sure to clean everything out ahead of time with 1 part bleach to 10 parts water, and then rinsed the whole thing out with tap water after reading that tap water wouldn't hurt anything. I also tossed in 5 campden tablets, mashed together into the fermenter (which was a food grade 6 gallon bucket that comes with the starter kits).

For the yeast, I used Lalvin EC-1118. I followed the instructions on the back of the packet, and mixed the yeast with about 2 oz. of warm water to start it up, leaving it alone for about 30 minutes, and then mixing it again before adding it to the fermenter. It stuck a little bit, so I added some more water in in order to rinse out what I couldn't get with a spoon. I'm not sure if that was a good choice or not, so any word on that part would be appreciated. I sealed the fermenter up, and put the air lock on top of it. Afterwards, I stored it in my hallway closet, and the temperature has slid back and forth a little between about 70-74 degrees fair. The directions said to let it ferment for 3 weeks, but I used a different yeast, so I wanted to know how much that would change things. The directions also said to keep it between 68-70, but mine's a little warmer than that. I think the temperature should be ok because I'm using a different yeast that said it was ok at up to 95 degrees or so, and I'm still curious about how long to leave it fermenting, and when to put it into the secondary fermenter. Should it spend 3 weeks in each? Longer? Shorter?

I also wanted to carbonate it, and instead of beer bottles, I bought some wine bottles for storage space. Lastly, what kind of alcohol content am I probably looking at? I have a hydrometer, but I didn't know when to use it. I heard 5-7% is about normal, but I was wondering if it would be higher because I'm using wine yeast.

Sorry for all of the questions, but I'm both excited and worried about everything. I really want this to come out well, and I'd like to make more elaborate ciders later. Any help or reassurance would certainly be appreciated, and if you need any more information, please feel free to ask. Thank you in advance.
 
First off everyone, thank you for your replies and thank you for the thread hijack! :p

I pitched about 24 hours ago.
If I add non-fermenting sugar wont that change the dryness of the cider?

I thought it was a misread too. I took a reading again, and then made sure it was calibrated. Well there is one thing I do know, if the fermentation starts there will be SOME alcohol in it :p.

So if I wanted to stop the fermentation without waiting it out I would pasteurize it, in the bottle which kills the yeast. Does that leave any carbonation? How long to wait after bottle? Im assuming the bottles should be checked daily to ensure they dont BB.

Again thank you for your help!
 
Yes, you can add non fermenting sugar and it will be drinkable, but it wont taste as good as the natural apple sugar, especially since you got fresh juice.

If you want to have a natural bottle conditioned cider, bottle pasteurization is the most reliable method. Bottle a tad sweeter than what you are going for. Use a plastic bottle to test for carbonation and pasteurize as soon as it becomes firm.
 
You bottle as normal into a plastic bottle and as the cider is being carbonated, the plastic bottle will firm/bulge, then you know it's ready to pasteurise. (I would advise not pasteurising the plastic bottle...)
 
So instead of a 2L bottle something smaller such as a 20 oz or that size, is it the same as filling to the neck? Is the cider able to be drank/drunk at that point before pasteurizing?
 
In Australia we have 600ml bottles, which is about the same as a 20oz. bottle (I just checked halfway through that sentence). Bottle as you would a glass bottle (this is the whole point of the test). Yeah it should be fine I wouldn't leave it any longer than a week/week and a half though. It should be carbed by then anyway.
 
10/2 - Carboy'd 5 g of Fresh Cider w/Campden SG - > 1.07 (off refractormeter's chart)
10/4 - Pitched Wyeast 4766
10/7 - Fermentation started
10/15 - SG 1.04
10/18 - Blended 3 pints of fresh raspberries and froze in container for about 1 liquid pint.

I plan on letting it ferment all the way complete and then secondary racking for a week. After secondary racking is complete, adding http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000ORXYYS/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 to taste, SLOWLY! Add raspberry liquid. Add a can of frozen concentrate apple juice or another cider gallon and bottle into 1 20oz (600ml) plastic bottle and the rest into cap style beer bottles. Check plastic bottle for pressure and once is firm then stove top pasteurize the rest of the beer bottles to stop fermentation. Condition the bottles and taste every two weeks or so.

Questions:
1. Is there anything here that one of the more advanced members would perform differently?
2. Should I only add the concentrate/cider and not both (the xylitol)? Add more juice/cider? Not enough?
3. Should I test the bottles along with the plastic one or will the plastic one be enough of a test? The bottles are left out of the cold to carbonate, correct?
4. Can I re-bottle the plastic one into a beer bottle? Should I wait to pasteurize or do it right away?
5. What is the best method for bottle conditioning? In fridge? Ambient indoor winter temp (58-64)? Warmer?

Again, thank you all for the help. This forum has been amazing compared to some other forums I have been on that push newbs away.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
2. It all depends on your taste, since you are going to pasteurize it's not necessary to use xylitol, unless you like it more than plain sugar.
3. you just wait until the plastic one is nice and firm, then open it and drink it.
4. see 3
5. you usually bottle condition in the 70s, colder means slower or possibly no fermentation.
 
I'm not sure you can trust a refractometer for cider, need to use a hydrometer.

I would add the raspberry for the secondary fermentation and skip both the xylitol and extra juice, so you dont lose the taste of your fresh ingredients. bottle before the secondary fermentation completes, at a sugar level just a tad higher than where you want it to finish and let the natural sugar do the carb
 
The first fermentation has finished. It went all the way and stopped fermenting. I waited a bit too long (Work was really busy). Siphoned out the cider into secondary and sucked very very very little of the lees. Added some sugar. I wanted to start it back up again. Will it start on its own with the yeast remaining or will I need to toss some new yeast in?
 
It should start by itself, assuming your yeast aren't dead from alcohol toxicity/something similar!
 
Back
Top