RIMS Build on a budget - but still pretty advanced

Well, I am about two weeks into my build and decided I should start a thread to show what I am doing and the direction that I am taking it. Unfortunately my camera had a run in with some rain and does not work, so I apologize for the horrible cell phone pics. I will replace them with better pics once I go buy a new camera!

I am calling this a budget build since I am trying REAL hard to source all of my material in the cheapest manner possible. For instance the stainless steel was quoted new at $460 dollars. I picked up some scrap from a customer for $60, bought a cheapo grinder and cutting disks $35 and cut it all to length. This puts the total cost of my metal for the stand to $95. I am not having this welded simply because it is being built in my basement and it would never get in or out the door the way my house is laid out. Instead I opted to use 3" stainless bolts and drill some holes. This also saved a ton of money. The kettles are keggles which I paid $140 for all three of them. Yes I know I got ripped on the keggles, but beggers can not be choosers and they are in great shape.

Here is the stand from a few nights ago when the first pod was finished:



After building the top of the stand, I got bored with metal working for a few days and decided to build my control panel. I sell automation controls for a living so getting over a thousand dollars of high end components was pretty easy. Total cost to me on the panel is up to about $60 but I have yet to finish it off. I would say that another $40 and it will be all set. Again this fits my idea of a "budget build" (at least for me)
Here is the exterior of the panel without any legend plates or markings yet:



-The top left is one of the temp controllers, I am sticking with one for now as they are $225 and I could only get one sample. it will be used to maintain the temp on the electric RIMS.
- Below that is a pilot light that tells me when the rims is heating
- Below that is a selector that has positions "pump" "off" "auto"
---- Pump will turn on the rims pump only so that it can be used for more than just one operation
---- Off, well that is self explanatory
---- Auto turns on the Pump and allows the PID to control the heater element.
- Below all of that is a lighted push button. It illuminates when the pump is on indicating that you can press it. When pressed it turns on the RIMS heater element for a manual boost of heat. It basically makes the "pump" setting also work as a "hand" setting on the selector switch.

The second column works just like the first, but it is used to control the 240V 5500W heater element in the HLT. It has "pump" "off" "heat" as its selections as I can either be pumping the fluid or heating the fluid. Just incase I have the pump hooked elsewhere and I need a burst of heat, the green push button allows the heater to be fired at any time no matter the position of the selector.

The third column starts with my primary power. It is a key operated switch so that without me present, no one can mess with the brewery. The controls under that are for the Boil Kettle, and are simply "off" "on" for the element.

Here is a quick shot of what all of this crap looks like on the inside (not finished wiring yet)

That picture makes my carpet look really gross!

That is as far as I am for now, in the next couple weeks I will have all of my kegs cut and drilled, and ready for the balance of the parts to be ordered.
I still need:
2 pumps
All fittings for fluid transfer
All parts to build rims heater
All parts to build wort chiller (will be a reverse flow system)
Heater elements
2 30A GFCI and 1 20A GFCI breaker OUCH!! I just want to be able to run all controls and elements at the same time!

I do appreciate any feedback on things that I am overlooking or tips to make the brewday on this go a little easier ie: motorized stirrer (may be making one out of the left over Keg Parts)


Thanks for looking, and Slainte if you read that entire novel I just typed!!

Nice dude!! I love the control panel!

a twenty amp GFCI outlet is WAY cheaper than a 20 amp breaker.

Where in NY are you? I am buying the stuff to build a "high temp" CFC so that i can reciculate boiling wort to sanitize. Buying to build two is way cheaper than buying for one. want to go halves on the supplies?

right now i have 50 feet of high temp hose, and im going to buy 50 feet of 3/8" tubing as soon as i can get to Lowes.

Nice work on your system.

sjlammer said:

a twenty amp GFCI outlet is WAY cheaper than a 20 amp breaker.

Where in NY are you? I am buying the stuff to build a "high temp" CFC so that i can reciculate boiling wort to sanitize. Buying to build two is way cheaper than buying for one. want to go halves on the supplies?

right now i have 50 feet of high temp hose, and im going to buy 50 feet of 3/8" tubing as soon as i can get to Lowes.

Nice work on your system.

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I know that a 20A outlet is cheaper, I can get a good Hubbell one for about $7 whereas the breaker is around $40. MY thing is that I want to either hard wire this, or use twistlocks to ensure secure connections.

I live in Buffalo, opposite side of the state from you. My design for the chiller is up in the air, and may be quite different from what has been built before, or it may be pretty close to what others are using. I still have to test out some of my ideas.

I would say not to buy your copper tubing at Lowes, it is expensive there. Check out coppertubingsales.com The price for a 50' coil is about half of Lowes price.

Are you planning on the keggles resting on the lower rails or are those burner supports?

The keggles are resting on the lower rails with the upper rails keeping them firmly in place. There are no burners as this is a full electric setup. There will be 2 5500W elements and one smaller yet undecided one for the rims heater. I will actually be upgrading the electrical service to 200A to be able to power this beast. I already have the panel, wire, fittings, etc... just need to get it all installed one of these days, or maybe stick to my original plan and buy a new house and install the panel just before we move in. I promised the SWMBO that she could have a hot tub if I get this..... WIN/WIN the way I see it.

The Lowes where i live has a 50' roll for $46. it may be left over from when copper prices were lower. I priced CTS today, and it was 45 shipped from them.

I will double check, but thanks for looking out!

I'd reconsider your design.

As designed you're asking a very small area of thinwall tubing to take the entire load of the full keggles. When loaded, I've have concerns about the bolt pulling through the tube. You might be fine, you might not.

Nope, It has been tested. It is actually heavy walled tube. This tubing is left over from heavy machinery for the dairy industry. By calculation the keggle will be approx. 120 Lbs fully loaded, and me and a friend were able to stand on the rails for one pod without issue. That is a total of 350 Lbs and it didn't even bend or flinch. If i really need to I will add some heavy S.S. washers to the bolts just to insure their strength, but I don't forsee that happening.

Edit: looking at the picture makes me want to add the washers..... DAMN I hate giving Home Depot my $$.

Am I just not seeing the fusing in your controll box? Maybe they are down at the bottom?

GreenMonti said:

Am I just not seeing the fusing in your controll box? Maybe they are down at the bottom?

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You can not really see it. I am only fusing the control circuits and the pump circuits. The heaters are a direct run from breaker to terminal block to contactor to heater all in the same GA wire so the CB is enough to protect that. The fuses for the pumps and the control circuit are inside of Allen Bradley Fuse Terminal Blocks on the far left of the din rail. They look like this:

Washers are cheap insurance and would look more, eh, "correct".

tpgsr said:

You can not really see it. I am only fusing the control circuits and the pump circuits. The heaters are a direct run from breaker to terminal block to contactor to heater all in the same GA wire so the CB is enough to protect that. The fuses for the pumps and the control circuit are inside of Allen Bradley Fuse Terminal Blocks on the far left of the din rail. They look like this:

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Doing what you do, I thought for sure you would have the din rail mount finger safe fuse blocks. Hard to see over there on the rail. I love those distribution bolcks.

While I was not the brains behind the wiring I did put controll panels together. I had nice big prints to follow. This is a bad pic I know, it's from the web site of the company I used to work for. I am not trying to hijack your thread, just a trip down memory lane when I saw your work. Sorry.

I will be adding washers
My only concern when designing was more surface area that some liquid can seep into and hold stagnant. I guess it is really a minor issue. Guess I have to go get some washers this weekend.

GreenMonti said:

Doing what you do, I thought for sure you would have the din rail mount finger safe fuse blocks. Hard to see over there on the rail. I love those distribution bolcks.

While I was not the brains behind the wiring I did put controll panels together. I had nice big prints to follow. This is a bad pic I know, it's from the web site of the company I used to work for. I am not trying to hijack your thread, just a trip down memory lane when I saw your work. Sorry.

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That is nice. That type of thing is what all of my customers build. I look at my little box and the time it is taking and all of the wire management, then I see some customers with their 72"x40" boxes loaded with controls and it is just amazing.

I was at a customer the other day that had to have a crane to move the wired panel into the box and then lift it onto a truck for shipping. I just look at that and see $$$$$

tpgsr said:

That is nice. That type of thing is what all of my customers build. I look at my little box and the time it is taking and all of the wire management, then I see some customers with their 72"x40" boxes loaded with controls and it is just amazing.

I was at a customer the other day that had to have a crane to move the wired panel into the box and then lift it onto a truck for shipping. I just look at that and see $$$$$

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We did a couple of big boxes for a taquito rolling machine we built. They weren't quite 72x40. I don't recall the size off hand, but they were good size. Once we were done with them it took 2 licened electricians 2 days to go over them and certify them.


How do you plan on doing the legs on your stand?

The legs on the stand will be bolted in lots of places... It is hard to see in the pics, but it can slide right between the lower and upper cross member as well as the frame rail. This is three blot positions on the top. There will be another rail on the bottom for a shelf and the pumps, the legs will bolt there as well. There are 6 legs total in this frame as well as a couple of extra support beams. I will post up a pic when I have it all thrown together in the next week or so.

That is a $225 PID? Man, I got three new ones for $135 total from Auber for my new build.

The Pol said:

That is a $225 PID? Man, I got three new ones for $135 total from Auber for my new build.

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Buying Allen Bradley is like buying a Rolls Royce of controls. Some things are worth the cost, some are not. This PID is crazy programmable, and I can do it from my laptop. It is a little overkill, but it was free to me. The second one I will pay for, but it will hurt a little. I believe that about $200 is my cost, but they list for a LOT more than that. http://plccenter.com/buy/ALLEN+BRADLEY/900TC16RGTZ25

Ughhhhh I must say that I 100% prefer brewing to cutting steel and making things to brew with. I just keep looking at all of my parts and thinking ok just a little more for tons better beer.

Hehehe, I'm not sure it counts as a budget build when you're able to swing $1,000s of components on the cheap!

Good call. But it is budget for me, and I can recommend close to identical parts for cheap. I call this budget as it is costing me very little and I have already started designing our nano brewery which I expect to cost over 8000 so under 1000 is quite a budget. Even if you paid list for all of the components I have you would still come in under what some companies charge for less automated systems. If any of you guys need components, send me a pm and I will check my sample bin and ship them out to you for nada.

Agreed there - the off the shelf brewing systems like the B3 brewsculptures or the Brew Magics are horrendously overpriced, and anyone with a little research and some reasonably basic DIY skills can put together a stand for a fraction of the price.

And good offer on the parts! I might have to take you up on that! (Got any Love controllers lurking about?!)

hey tpgsr, followed another thread to find this one. Noice looking build!
Speaking of TBs, have you ever used WAGO? instead of screw terminals they have spring loaded clips, you shove a fiberglass screwdriver into a rectangular hole, stuff a stripped piece of wire in the round hole, pull the fiberglass bone out and done. Makes wire terms sooooo much faster in the shop and the field. In ten years I have never had a wire come out of a terminal.

I just pinged auber to see if they have the RS232 or 485 coms available on there PIDs or if I could send some in to be upgraded. Sure would be nice to have remote access.

Again, controls look good man.

I have a bunch of WAGO blocks, but none of them are spring clips. Allen Bradley, WAGO, Weidmuller etc... all have their own line of spring clip blocks, I actually don't have a single one in my box of like 5000 blocks.

And thanks for the compliment... It has a long way to go, but I am getting there. Way to many other things to do aside from all of this.

Oh, and I learned a horrible lesson on this one... I decided to just wire it and not use a schematic as I knew exactly what each control needed to do... NOPE I missed one wire that has to run back to the relay for pump 1 and that will cost me cutting and re strapping 17 cable ties

Instead of multiple gfci breakers, you could always buy a spa box that includes a 50 or 60 amp gfci breaker, to feed another box for the smaller circuits. I am adding a 100 amp sub panel, and using the 50 amp gfci breaker that came in the spa box in the sub panel to feed the spa box. this way, anything in the spa box will be gfci protected. I will use a 30 amp breaker to feed the element, and a 20 to feed pump, and pid.