I made an imperial stout with 9lb dme and some steeped grains for an OG of 1.100. I used two smack packs of American Ale Yeast - Wyeast 1056. I know a high gravity beer needs a starter but I didn't have the supplies or the forethought. The beer is definitely done fermenting, haven't seen airlock activity in over a week. Hydrometers readings are at a constant 1.030. Would it be worthwhile to swirl the carboy and warm with a blanket for the next few days before I bottle?
High FG for imperial stout, what should I do?
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MachineShopBrewing
Well-Known Member
Like dcp said, thats not really all that high for a imperial stout. Some are even up to 1.040. It just depends what you are looking for, a sweeter beer, or a roasty beer.
Brewenstein
Well-Known Member
How long has it been in the primary? Don't be afraid to let a big beer sit for awhile. Or rack to a secondary after 4-5 weeks and let it sit for a couple of months. A big beer takes time to reach its peak anyway.
That being said, I don't think that your FG is out of line. That is 70% apparent attenuation. I am sure that with an OG that big, there are a number of unfermentables in there, especially from DME. (You don't know what temp the grain was mashed at, etc.) I did an all grain imperial stout that had an OG of 1.107 and a FG of 1.031 that tastes great. As long a you hopped it correctly, the residual sweetness should be balanced by the bitterness.
EDIT - I just noticed that you are in the Chicago area. Where are you from? I live in Lombard.
That being said, I don't think that your FG is out of line. That is 70% apparent attenuation. I am sure that with an OG that big, there are a number of unfermentables in there, especially from DME. (You don't know what temp the grain was mashed at, etc.) I did an all grain imperial stout that had an OG of 1.107 and a FG of 1.031 that tastes great. As long a you hopped it correctly, the residual sweetness should be balanced by the bitterness.
EDIT - I just noticed that you are in the Chicago area. Where are you from? I live in Lombard.
Not sure you can expect much better than that. Move it to a warmer location to make sure it's finished (70F+), and then bottle.
You probably would have gotten more out of the yeast if you had used a starter, but not much more than 1.025. To push it lower you would have had to design your recipe with some simple sugars, or use a second, more attenuative, yeast (active starter) to finish off the fermentation.
70% is pretty good for a high gravity with just a couple of vials of yeast.
You probably would have gotten more out of the yeast if you had used a starter, but not much more than 1.025. To push it lower you would have had to design your recipe with some simple sugars, or use a second, more attenuative, yeast (active starter) to finish off the fermentation.
70% is pretty good for a high gravity with just a couple of vials of yeast.
Thanks to everyone who replied, really alleviated all my worries.
I live on the mean streets of Niles.
I live on the mean streets of Niles.
I have a similar situation. OG was around 1.120 I made a mistake and transfered a little early and the gravity was at 1.050. Now I'm just letting sit in secondary for a few months. If my next gravity hasn't moved much I am going to repitch to bring it down.
MachineShopBrewing
Well-Known Member
I would check your gravity every couple days over the next week or so. I suspect that you won't get much movement if you pulled it off the cake. Doing that will allow you to pitch more yeast sooner if need be.
The stout in question was brewed on 12/28/10. Not sure what I was thinking when I transfered it too early. It's been sitting in secondary since about the 2nd week af January. I had honestly forgotten about it until recently and decided I needed to check on it again. If it hasn't moved I will repitch.
One questions though. The advice from my LHBS was to repitch but make sure that I had enough yeast activity to enable carbination. So if I repitch this weekend should I be ready to bottle soon? Maybe in the next week? LHBS guy seemed to think it would only take another week or so to dry this beer out and gett to terminal gravity.
MachineShopBrewing
Well-Known Member
Hmm... Sounds like it sat on the yeast long enough to get to FG originally if it was there 2 weeks or so. How much yeast did you pitch the first time? That is a huge beer and you need a ton of yeast for it. Also, what yeast was it?
+1, more of the recipe would help as well. if its chock-full of dark/crystal lights it could kill your attenuation
Based on my recent learnings on pitching I know I under pitched.
I'm at work and don't have the recipe with me. This beer is a double chocolate oatmeal stout. When I get home I will post the recipe. I will also take a gravity reading.
I'm at work and don't have the recipe with me. This beer is a double chocolate oatmeal stout. When I get home I will post the recipe. I will also take a gravity reading.
Just took a new hydro reading and the beer is now at 1.042 coming down but still no where near the terminal gravity of 1.022. I over shot the OG and came in at 1.120. I mashed at 150 (recommended by recipe) and did a fly sparge using about 7 gallons maybe a little less. The sparge called for 8 gal but I was worried about running out of room in my 10 gallon brew kettle.
My yeast starter was only one cup which would have given approxiametly 100B cells and I would have needed minimum 300B so I know I under pitched.
I drank the sample and it's really freaking good. Now I guess the question is should I re-pitch to get it to recommended terminal gravity
Bitter Chocolate Oatmeal Stout Clone - Stone Brewing
Recipe:
OG: 1.094 FG: 1.022
16.0 lbs 2 row malt
0.5 lbs CaraPils malt
0.5 lbs crystal malt
2.0 lb flaked oats
1.0 lb of chocaltae malt
0.25 lbs of roasted barley
0.25 lbs black malt
3.25 oz cocoa
0.25 oz Galena Hops
0.4 oz Willamette Hops
0.4 oz Ahtanum Hops
0.38 oz Summit Hops
Yeast: White labs WLP002 (English Ale)
My yeast starter was only one cup which would have given approxiametly 100B cells and I would have needed minimum 300B so I know I under pitched.
I drank the sample and it's really freaking good. Now I guess the question is should I re-pitch to get it to recommended terminal gravity
Bitter Chocolate Oatmeal Stout Clone - Stone Brewing
Recipe:
OG: 1.094 FG: 1.022
16.0 lbs 2 row malt
0.5 lbs CaraPils malt
0.5 lbs crystal malt
2.0 lb flaked oats
1.0 lb of chocaltae malt
0.25 lbs of roasted barley
0.25 lbs black malt
3.25 oz cocoa
0.25 oz Galena Hops
0.4 oz Willamette Hops
0.4 oz Ahtanum Hops
0.38 oz Summit Hops
Yeast: White labs WLP002 (English Ale)
well the target FG is just based on the yeast average attenuation, so if you scale it up to your OG the new target would be 1.028. Its not out of the question, but attenuation tends to drop once you reach a certain level of alcohol. I'd give it some more time whether its done or not, it'll help it condition quicker than it would in the bottle.
As for the under-pitching, in a recent BYO they did a pitch rate experiment (1/4 to 4 times the recommended rate) and it made little difference in the FG. I'm sure at higher OGs it would result in more of a difference since they need more aeration and nutrients, but I wouldn't totally knock up the high FG to that.
MachineShopBrewing
Well-Known Member
1.042 and dropping a little is really not that bad for a big 1.120 beer. Surly brewing Darkness finishes around 1.039 and is one of the best stouts in the world. If you get it too dry it can tend to get way too roasty.
tdogg
Well-Known Member
i just bottled my imperial stout (modified YETI clone) that started at 1.120 and finished at 1.030. i pitched on a full yeast cake of WL001, and got to final grav in about 2.5 days. i even pitched champaign yeast to see if it would dry out and it didnt budge. i think its gonna be tough to get a lower FG with extract. note: mine had 7 pounds of DME
BlueMonkTrane
Member
At JLW,
That beer is huge to pitch an English ale yeast onto, especially if the starter was shy of estimated yeast cells needed. In my experience, English ale yeasts flocculate really quickly, and, when a recipe is high in speciality malts/decoction/high mash temps/high gravities, in whatever combination, English yeast flocculate the beer before primary fermentation reaches complete attenuation to the potential FG, and that is because of the complex carbohydrates created in these processes which take longer to convert. You were clear of most of these, except for high OG and low pitch rates of English yeast. It kind of stalls when it reaches those high alcohol levels and the yeast are tired and settled, barely coverting to alcohol at a really slow rate.
And, I had the exact same thing happen to me on an Imperial Stout I made a couple of years ago. It stalled at about 1.038, should have finished lower, or at least I hoped. But, I did not pitch enough, used English Yeast, and fermentation temperatures dropped at the wrong time. Needless to say, fermentation was over at that point, and re-pitching yeast on a beer with alot of alcohol and one that is partially fermented is probably not going to work, even if you use a starter and over pitch. I tried several things, I roused the yeast cake first and raised the temperature....nothing. Put the beer in with a fresh yeast slurry from a recently completed primary....nothing. I repitched on that too....nothing.
After lots of research and frustration, I have found that if a high gravity beer stalls, it's really difficult to get it restarted and drop that gravity further. It is because in the fermentation process, its kind of like the snowball effect; the yeast are rapidly reproducing and developing enzymes to chew through carbs and make alcohol. They become acclimated to the constant increase in alcohol in solution and have the momentum of growth to continue conversion to alcohol, and once that stops or stalls it's over. The yeast have done all they are going to for that go 'round. The only theoretical way to get it going again would be to pitch a huge starter. One in fact that would be a second batch of beer. At high krausen, put around 10% or more of the fresh fermenting wort into the stalled beer. It will take off and finish if everything else is right, but that is difficult with limited facilities and considering how much it would affect the finished flavor, meaning that it would have to be a complete brew day just to make that "re-starter" beer of the same style.
Sorry for the spiel.....
Let it sit for a little longer, then take a good sized sample,sit down, and drink it. If its good, and FGs are constant....bottle or keg it.
That beer is huge to pitch an English ale yeast onto, especially if the starter was shy of estimated yeast cells needed. In my experience, English ale yeasts flocculate really quickly, and, when a recipe is high in speciality malts/decoction/high mash temps/high gravities, in whatever combination, English yeast flocculate the beer before primary fermentation reaches complete attenuation to the potential FG, and that is because of the complex carbohydrates created in these processes which take longer to convert. You were clear of most of these, except for high OG and low pitch rates of English yeast. It kind of stalls when it reaches those high alcohol levels and the yeast are tired and settled, barely coverting to alcohol at a really slow rate.
And, I had the exact same thing happen to me on an Imperial Stout I made a couple of years ago. It stalled at about 1.038, should have finished lower, or at least I hoped. But, I did not pitch enough, used English Yeast, and fermentation temperatures dropped at the wrong time. Needless to say, fermentation was over at that point, and re-pitching yeast on a beer with alot of alcohol and one that is partially fermented is probably not going to work, even if you use a starter and over pitch. I tried several things, I roused the yeast cake first and raised the temperature....nothing. Put the beer in with a fresh yeast slurry from a recently completed primary....nothing. I repitched on that too....nothing.
After lots of research and frustration, I have found that if a high gravity beer stalls, it's really difficult to get it restarted and drop that gravity further. It is because in the fermentation process, its kind of like the snowball effect; the yeast are rapidly reproducing and developing enzymes to chew through carbs and make alcohol. They become acclimated to the constant increase in alcohol in solution and have the momentum of growth to continue conversion to alcohol, and once that stops or stalls it's over. The yeast have done all they are going to for that go 'round. The only theoretical way to get it going again would be to pitch a huge starter. One in fact that would be a second batch of beer. At high krausen, put around 10% or more of the fresh fermenting wort into the stalled beer. It will take off and finish if everything else is right, but that is difficult with limited facilities and considering how much it would affect the finished flavor, meaning that it would have to be a complete brew day just to make that "re-starter" beer of the same style.
Sorry for the spiel.....
Let it sit for a little longer, then take a good sized sample,sit down, and drink it. If its good, and FGs are constant....bottle or keg it.
BMT, I plan on letting this one continue to ferment for awhile longer. I think it's very close to being reafy to bottle. I drank the sample the last sample and it was really very good.
I appreciate the spiel. It's good to get first hand experiences.
I appreciate the spiel. It's good to get first hand experiences.
andoniu83
Active Member
I am having pretty close to the same problem with a Brewers Best Oatmeal Stout. Being new to the brewing world and this being my third kit so far, I decided to go with a more intermediate kit. Followed directions exactly and transferred to primary with a OG of 1.052, saw vigorous bubbling from airlock within 24 hours and all of a sudden, it stopped within two days. Waited 5 days and checked gravity and I was at 1.034, kit instructions say FG should be between 1.010-1.016. I called the Brew Supply shop I purchased the kit from and they said to transfer to secondary and re-pitch yeast. I completed this and saw vigorous bubbling from airlock for another two days, then again it stopped. Took another hydro. reading and what do ya know, still at 1.034. I moved to a warmer location of my house and wrapped a towel around the bucket and roused the yeast. What do you think could be the problem, I still want to get this Stout to the range listed on the instructions of 1.010-1.016. Any advice would great?
What type of yeast did you use? Dry or liquid? It sounds like you may have transfered to soon. There is a lot of yeast in the bottom of your fermenter.
As for now one thing you could do is tip the fermenter over on it's bottom edge and give it a good vigorous swirl and then leave it alone. That can get the yeast up and moving again. Come back in a few days and re-test. That will tell you if you are at terminal gravity or if you are still getting movement. If this beer is done then you still have beer and it may be a little sweeter than you would have liked but will probably still be very drinkable.
My stout has been fermenting since the last week of December and while it doesn't look like anything is going on the gravity is still dropping very slowly. This beer is testing my patience.
Here is a great read on yeast and pitching. After reading this I discovered that I have probably under pitched most of my beers over the last year. There is a nice pitch calculator at the end that I have found handy.
http://www.mrmalty.com/pitching.php
As for now one thing you could do is tip the fermenter over on it's bottom edge and give it a good vigorous swirl and then leave it alone. That can get the yeast up and moving again. Come back in a few days and re-test. That will tell you if you are at terminal gravity or if you are still getting movement. If this beer is done then you still have beer and it may be a little sweeter than you would have liked but will probably still be very drinkable.
My stout has been fermenting since the last week of December and while it doesn't look like anything is going on the gravity is still dropping very slowly. This beer is testing my patience.
Here is a great read on yeast and pitching. After reading this I discovered that I have probably under pitched most of my beers over the last year. There is a nice pitch calculator at the end that I have found handy.
http://www.mrmalty.com/pitching.php
