Trust Your Airlock

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But telling someone not to trust the airlock is good advice IMO.

And telling them that they can rely soley on it is bad advice.

Of course, lots of bad advice is regularly given. Like the idea that your beer is automatically done after 7 days and ready to rack to secondary. I've known many people that have had sweet, underattenuated beers due to racking too early.

Come to think of it, some of these people were using their airlock as an indicator.
 
Sure, but the airlock was made for the sole purpose allowing gas to leave the fermentation container. It works great for that purpose. IMO, it should never be used as an indicator of fermentation.
And Viagra was orginally developed as a heart medication . . .
:ban:
 
Not saying it’s tragic, just trying to show that Revvy’s word isn’t always gospel.

Is that what you're doing here? Because this thread seems pretty silly...I'm just glad it's not in the beginner's section confusing the newbies.

From what I've seen, Revvy gives pretty sound advice. NO ONE should take anyone's word in regards to brewing as absolute truth. We all have our own paths to brewing and our own inevitable methods that work for what we need.

I'm sure many people would think my stovetop threads are silly...hell, I've learned a lot from the questions people asked within them.
 
And Viagra was orginally developed as a heart medication . . .
:ban:

lol, I'm fine with saying that "yes, airlocks can give you indication of fermentation"

But an airlock will NEVER tell you when fermentation is complete. You can ASSUME based on the airlock, but that doesn't mean jack without other information (or experience.)
 
It's about risk assessment.
I know the risks, I know that risk is minimal based on past experience and I know the out come if it goes wrong.

I generally do not use the hydro after taking the OG.
If you do not have experience and confidence you should.

That being said the majority of brewers would think that my way of brewing is foolish.
I would not recommend it for the newer brewer.
 
But telling someone not to trust the airlock is good advice IMO.
Good for what? You should tell them the limitations of the information that you get from it and where to go next. It can be trusted 100% if you understand what it's telling you.
 
...I'm just glad it's not in the beginner's section confusing the newbies.
So, you have beginners, with questionable sanitation, taking multiple hydrometer reading when patience and simple observation would serve them better. I think having all the information would be in their best interest.
 
No, it’s not traumatic, just an observation. What’s silly is denying the value of a very basic tool. The hydrometer has a place in the brewing process. The quote you referenced states that. But there is in no real excuse to take a reading when it’s not necessary. If you don’t see airlock activity for 5 days, sure, take a reading. Sure, you want to check a wheat beer before a IIPA. But if your conditions are stable for that IIPA and you still have bubbles after two weeks, it’s not done. Put the hydrometer away and show some patience!
If you mean basic tool by me going down to the basement and seeing if I still see the airlock bubbling I don't progress to the next step, sure. But, my next step after seeing or not seeing airlock activity is take into account what day it is after my brew day and whether or not the krausen has dropped. Since I make a starter for every (non dry yeast) batch, I have activity in less than 8 hours in most cases, I'm usually only looking to go to the next step after 10 days. If I don't see airlock activity AND the krausen has dropped, THEN I take a hydrometer reading to see what happened. I don't say awh shucks, it's not bubbling, time to rack to my secondary. It really is just an afterthought. I can't remember the last time I had a problem, but why not check? My whole point was that I don't use the hydrometer test as an excuse to play dress up. I'm doing it because it's one of the steps in *MY* process. Is it the right way? It's the right way for me, and I'd venture a guess for a bunch of people in some closely varied way.

So, you pitched this harvested yeast without making a starter to verify it being viable, there was no airlock activity and no krausen in your fermenter and it took you 7-10 days to figure that there was something wrong by taking a hydrometer reading? Now who's being silly? :cross:

I never said I don't make starters. For example, I used a June dated vial of WLP001. I made a 2L starter ~48 hours before I pitched. I had minimal activity, but I knew it was doing it's thing in the starter. I had my brew day scheduled for when I did and I wasn't going to change that day. That batch had activity in less than 6 hours. Does that mean it's going to finish where I want or hope it to? That's why I check it, so if I have another old ass vial, I may reconsider what I do with it.

Not saying it’s tragic, just trying to show that Revvy’s word isn’t always gospel.

I do believe there is a strange amount of hero worship on this board compared to other forums. Some people, like Revvy have earned the respect of fellow board members (including myself), but I don't think he and other respected members shouldn't be questioned. I just don't agree with your methods or reason (ie: "just trying to show...."). That sounds malicious. Debate the point and you and Revvy (and myself) can agree to disagree.
 
How about I encourage them to gain ALL the information possible, which would include his or her specific gravity.

What you're offering is a minimalist approach and eluding to the fact that people do not need to use an airlock. I think people DO need to use an airlock until they are very comfortable with their process or they could end up with crap and not know why.

And I never said that multiple hydrometer readings were necessary. I'm saying that when they think the beer is done (time, airlock, whatever) they should take a sample to ENSURE it is done.

My problem is not with your concept, it's with your delivery. You're making it sound like an airlock is just as good as an hydrometer when it comes to knowing your fermentation is complete. Not true.
 
So we need a closed system of 1) constant temp (even when accounting for the exothermic reactions taking place); 2)Completely sealed fermentation vessel; and 3) constant atmospheric pressure (which you failed to mention) in order to go strictly by the airlock.

No thanks, I will continue to use my airlock as a relative indicator of fermentation speed/activity, but primarily as a gas release valve and rely on my hydrometer for accurate measure of fermentation.
 
So, you have beginners, with questionable sanitation, taking multiple hydrometer reading when patience and simple observation would serve them better. I think having all the information would be in their best interest.

Why would you say that a noob would have questionable sanitation? When I first started I remember the ridiculous rituals I would follow to make sure everything was clean and sanitized. Why does experience bring someone the sudden notion of cleanliness?

If you do have a dirty noob, then they'll learn real quick when they eventually get that lovely white layer of fungal love in their fermenter. So maybe it would serve them well.
 
Someone has definately got a chip on their shoulder in this thread, and I don't quite get it.

One thing I learned when I picked this hobby up again a couple years ago, there's many different ways of achieving the same goal (beer), and there is no one specific way to do anything.

I am very precise with my measurements and controls, and I make good beer.
My friend is very lazy, ballparks temps, doesn't take hydro readings, and sanitizes with bleach. He also makes good beer. (really good, actually)

To each their own I guess.

I think this thread belongs in Debate forum, not Brew Science..
 
Good for what? You should tell them the limitations of the information that you get from it and where to go next.

Who pissed in your porridge? :confused:

It can be trusted 100% if you understand what it's telling you.

It's telling you that gas is leaving your fermenter and that's about it...It won't tell you if your fermentation is done.
 
See my comments here:



Now, before everyone gets their knickers in a twist, please note that this is a recipe that I've brewed countless times since I developed it, and it is a staple coming out of my brewery. I know what to expect with the ferment under my normal fermentation schedule/temperature, etc. I have that familiarity with the yeast, the recipe, the ferment conditions. To keep myself honest, I break out the hydrometer occasionally to verify my intuition.

I'm a firm believer in using the tools at my disposal in making the best beer that I can, but excessive hydrometer use isn't helping a thing, ya dig?

All well and good brother, and I "dig." But there is a stark difference in relation to the case in which you described and Clayton's statement, on which i commented. My "rare gift" comment was based on his protocol of his "almost never" using a hydrometer. But perhaps I am only assuming the case is different and Clayton brews the same beer, with the same ingredients, under the same conditions everytime. I'll stick with playing with my hydrometer. :cross:
 
My problem is not with your concept, it's with your delivery. You're making it sound like an airlock is just as good as an hydrometer when it comes to knowing your fermentation is complete. Not true.
I think you’ve misunderstood my original post. From the beginning I’ve promoted taking hydrometer readings at the appropriate time. I even said that after airlock activity and patience had run their course that a reading should be taken, but that after this another should not be necessary. I don’t see this as being "minimalist."


May be if the title of the thread was don’t NOT trust your airlock there wouldn’t be so many posts taking the intent wrong. That intent was to not disregard the information that your airlock has to offer. That under ideal condition an airlock trustworthy, but you have to understand it's limitations within you system. And finally that to disregard it to the point of saying it's only use is a vent is foolish.




But yes, I do believe that someone starting the prescribed method of taking three consecutive reading after 7-10 days is excessive and unnecessary for most beers. But that's just me.
 
My "rare gift" comment was based on his protocol of his "almost never" using a hydrometer.
What I actually said was:

"I'll take an OG reading, but other than that, I don't use it much anymore"

I claim no "rare gift", but I do know when most of my beers are finished. I've brewed them over and over and over again.

I also said, I would recommend new brewers use a hydrometer. I don't mind people disagreeing with me, but I do mind when they make up stuff that I didn't say or mean.

Egos...ugh, who needs 'em
 
Someone has definately got a chip on their shoulder in this thread, and I don't quite get it.
...
One thing I learned when I picked this hobby up again a couple years ago, there's many different ways of achieving the same goal (beer), and there is no one specific way to do anything.
...
I think this thread belongs in Debate forum, not Brew Science..

+1
everyone has their way of doing things. some ways may not be agreeable with others, but it is their perogative to do things the way they please. This thread was misplaced from the very beginning and has only grown into now six pages of low blows and sh*tty jabs. (See thread starters "brew science" and "debate" - both quite self-explanatory) Get a motherf*cking life everyone and support your fellow brewer, even if he/she doesn't follow the same practices. grow up. I'm going to look at more brewing science now. brewing is fun.
 
I think you’ve misunderstood my original post. From the beginning I’ve promoted taking hydrometer readings at the appropriate time. I even said that after airlock activity and patience had run their course that a reading should be taken, but that after this another should not be necessary. I don’t see this as being "minimalist."

Perhaps I did misunderstand your original intent...as it seemed to be to create controversy. If you've reached your gravity, you shouldn't need to take another reading. If you have NOT reached your gravity, then further action may need to be taken.

We could argue about this forever. I don't have a single problem with taking a reading EVERY DAY, as long as they are using proper sanitation, purging with co2, etc. It just isn't good in general practice, much like relying on your airlock as a sole indicator of fermentation stage.

May be if the title of the thread was don’t NOT trust your airlock there wouldn’t be so many posts taking the intent wrong. That intent was to not disregard the information that your airlock has to offer. That under ideal condition an airlock trustworthy, but you have to understand it's limitations within you system. And finally that to disregard it to the point of saying it's only use is a vent is foolish.

Again, I think it's very trustworthy as a device for allowing gas to excape from your fermenter. One could also partially guage that fermentation is complete due to a lack of activity, but this is not always the case, nor is it good practice.


But yes, I do believe that someone starting the prescribed method of taking three consecutive reading after 7-10 days is excessive and unnecessary for most beers. But that's just me.

I understand the "3 consecutive days" idea, although I'm not an advocate of it. It's just showing you whether or not you have active fermentation, despite what your airlock is doing, and is an ok practice as long as you have everything sanitized.

So if your gravity is 6 points higher than expected, do you think people should just bottle? Or perhaps they should check again a few days later to see if it moved at all? Perhaps give it a taste and think about whether it is "too sweet."

So no, I don't think people should TRUST THEIR AIRLOCK. I think like any other thing, if you're unsure, you should check it with your hydrometer. Every airlock is different, every beer is different, every brewer is different.

If I'm going to preach anything here, it's going to be: HAVE SOME DAMN PATIENCE. If you're so hung up on whether your beer is done or not, wait another week.

Beer shouldn't come out of the primary in less than two weeks, anyway, unless you are purposely brewing a fast beer and know precisely what you are doing.
 
stop Trying To Dictate To People Your Way Of Doing Things. This Thread Is Officially Retarded. Get A Life

I thought we were here to give each other advice, explore the hobby and find out what works best in our respective breweries. While this thread may not be the greatest example, if we're not allowed to discuss than it seems we shouldn't be here at all.

But by the very nature of this thread, it SHOULD be in the debate forum :cross:
 
What I actually said was:

"I'll take an OG reading, but other than that, I don't use it much anymore"

I claim no "rare gift", but I do know when most of my beers are finished. I've brewed them over and over and over again.

I also said, I would recommend new brewers use a hydrometer. I don't mind people disagreeing with me, but I do mind when they make up stuff that I didn't say or mean.

Egos...ugh, who needs 'em

I quoted Clayton from post #26, not you. I am not imposing any ego. I just found it contrary to logic that one would "almost never" use a hydrometer and have a feel for when fermentation was complete. I wasn't even indicating that it couldn't be accomplished. IMHO it would be a rare gift to be able to develop a feel that allows you to quantifiably judge the completion of fermentation everytime you brewed a batch. The statement was also purely to maintain a specific side of a debate so that if others were reading they get a logical view of different practices used in the brewing process.
 
I thought we were here to give each other advice, explore the hobby and find out what works best in our respective breweries. While this thread may not be the greatest example, if we're not allowed to discuss than it seems we shouldn't be here at all.

But by the very nature of this thread, it SHOULD be in the debate forum :cross:

Precisely, what works best in our respective breweries. this thread has grown incredibly ugly, ladden with nut shots since the beginning. discussion is one thing, preaching your specific practices and beliefs as fact is another. you are only looking stupid, considering the endless ways there are to make beer.
 
Precisely, what works best in our respective breweries. this thread has grown incredibly ugly, ladden with nut shots since the beginning. discussion is one thing, preaching your specific practices and beliefs as fact is another. you are only looking stupid, considering the endless ways there are to make beer.

Hopefully this debate can be utilized to confirm best practices in the brewing process. I think the debate here has identified that value can be found from both sides of the debate, leading readers to draw a conclusion that would indicate that there is usable information that can be acquired from both airlock activity as well as hydrometer readings. And that utilizing that information together is probably the best approach to ensuring that your beer has completed fermentation.
 
Precisely, what works best in our respective breweries. this thread has grown incredibly ugly, ladden with nut shots since the beginning. discussion is one thing, preaching your specific practices and beliefs as fact is another. you are only looking stupid, considering the endless ways there are to make beer.

Find another place to post if all you can do is hurl insults and get upset. We're supposed to help each other around here, despite how silly the thread is. If I think someone is giving bad advice, I will counter it.

I don't see how telling someone that it is a good idea to use an hydrometer is preaching specific practices and beliefs as fact. Perhaps you weren't talking about me, but perhaps you should also discuss matters instead of getting all torn up because you don't like a thread.
 
Hopefully this debate can be utilized to confirm best practices in the brewing process. I think the debate here has identified that value can be found from both sides of the debate, leading readers to draw a conclusion that would indicate that there is usable information that can be acquired from both airlock activity as well as hydrometer readings. And that utilizing that information together is probably the best approach to ensuring that your beer has completed fermentation.

I concur. but when it just gets so damn testosterone fueled and snarky from the start it is not productive. the guy that wants to use his hydrometer daily, go for it, sanitize, sanitize, sanitize. guy that wants to trust his airlock only.. great, go for it pal. but when it comes down to telling someone that there way is wrong, especially the gentleman who "uses his intuition" (who probably brews that one beer damn consistantly), then it is just ugly and needlessly personal. STFU everyone, share what you percieve to be helpful to the brewing process, and if people adopt it they will, if not, well you tried. you can't brew someones batch vicariously through this forum, so stop trying.
 
I thought we were here to give each other advice, explore the hobby and find out what works best in our respective breweries. While this thread may not be the greatest example, if we're not allowed to discuss than it seems we shouldn't be here at all.

But by the very nature of this thread, it SHOULD be in the debate forum :cross:

Nail on the head. :mug:
 
...but when it comes down to telling someone that there way is wrong, especially the gentleman who "uses his intuition" (who probably brews that one beer damn consistantly), then it is just ugly and needlessly personal. STFU everyone, share what you percieve to be helpful to the brewing process, and if people adopt it they will, if not, well you tried. you can't brew someones batch vicariously through this forum, so stop trying.

I'm certainly not calling this person wrong. But if indeed they are indicating that as a general practice one "almost never" requires the use of a hydrometer in the brewing process, it's certainly not sending the "right" message to inexperienced brewers. My comment in response to that person's statement was generally to convey that it is rare for someone to be able to apply that protocol successfully as a general best practice of one's brewing process. I think it is well established here that intuition is probably not the best method of gauging fermentation completion. Although I will concede that it is potentially possible to be successful using intuition.
 
saw this title browsing "New Posts" section as I often do and didn't realize till a few pages in that this was in "Brew Science" subforum. lol. I agree that this thread really hasn't offered up much in the way of science and is more of a debate.

As a "new" brewer (~7 brews under my belt) I'll offer the n00b view I have on my brews for better or worse.

1. airlock activity - I check to make sure it's perking the next day. I don't routinely monitor the progress.
2. I take a gravity and temperature reading before pitching.
3. After 2-3 weeks I check gravity and temperature and rack to bottling bucket/keg.

During this time I've never really gone by airlock activity cuz from my understanding even if actual fermentation is done the yeast can still condition the beer and clear it up or whatever. This just makes me wonder what's the point in checking airlock when the yeast still need time to do their business? Then of course I learned that people also condition in a secondary (this also seems to be issue of debate here, I don't do secondaries cuz i'm lazy and my beers aren't very complex :D) so I guess there is some reason to want to know when your beer is finished fermenting. But being a scientist myself, I've always just figured that the only real way to tell if your beer is done fermenting is if your gravity reading doesn't change over time and it's in the range that you'd expect for the yeast you used.

Honestly the only real reason I check the gravity of my beer is because I like calculating the alcohol content.

Anyway, cheers!
 
Air lock activity is one (Sometimes unreliable way) to indicate fermentation activity....
Unless it goes with experience and some risk taking then it is not a good way to decide if fermentation is complete.

Bold capitals and name calling is one indication that a mod may delete a post.
Please refrain.
 
Air lock activity is one (Sometimes unreliable way) to indicate fermentation activity....
Unless it goes with experience and some risk taking then it is not a good way to decide if fermentation is complete.

Bold capitals and name calling is one indication that a mod may delete a post.
Please refrain.

I deleted a post above with some name calling and "yelling" (bold letters).

Let me say this- we are all grown ups here. It's really immature to use words like "retarded" or "stupid" in a post. That's name calling, and won't be tolerated.

Put on your big boy pants and discuss your points without name calling.

Now, I can often tell by airlock activity what's going on in my fermenter. Since I keg most of my beers, though, I've gotten a bit lazy about checking the FG. Yesterday I kegged a beer that I knew was done- both by time and airlock activity. Taking a sample, FG was 1.021. Oops! If I was bottling, I'd worry. But since I'm not, I just shrugged and moved on. My point is that the airlock was not really helpful, and the hydrometer was. But since it really doesn't matter in that beer (projected FG was 1.017-1.018 and it's kegged so no explosions) I don't really care all that much.

What we do get around here is posts that say, "My airlock was bubbling three times a minute yesterday, but today is 1 time every five second" and "I don't see any bubbles- is my beer ruined?" and that's when I always tell new brewers to not trust their airlock and to rely on hydrometer readings.

I don't think it's either/or. Telling someone to move their beer when bubbling slows is bad advice- but telling them to take daily hydrometer readings is also bad advice.

In the words of the infamous Rodney King, "Can't we all just get along?"
 
This thread is so much more hilarious after a few beers..

Do what you want, or don;t do anything, it's your beer after all... :tank:
 
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