"Infected" or just off

I have had a couple of batches recently not turn out to be quite as good as I expected, others have. Once example is a cream ale that I brewed ~4.5 weeks ago that is just not right, has a sort of tang to it that makes me go "oh no, is it infected!"

In reality I suppose it could be someting as simple as an unbalanced beer where the trivial amount of hops are still throwing off any level of maltiness.

So to cut to the chase, is there ever really any question on a bacterial or other infection in taste? Is it one of those things where if its bad you will know it or can it be slightly infected?

I relate this to milk, reguarly I sniff the jug, taste, have the wife taste and keep convincing myself that its bad - then every once in a while I actually get a taste of truly sour milk, someting that is so powerful that you regret questioning previous milk.

The thing I am learning is that lots of things can cause "off-flavors" that aren't necessarily due to an infected batch. Your water quality, the freshness of your ingredients, level of carbonation, level of oxidation during handing, time left in primary (I could keep going). Only with time and experimentation can you iron out any kinks in your brew.

Check out this link for common off-flavors and their cause: http://www.howtobrew.com/section4/chapter21-2.html

From the way you describe it, infection doesn't seem too likely. If you post more info about your process, recipe, fermentation temps, times, how long in the bottle before tasting, etc. it might be easier to track down what could be causing off flavors.

The vast majority of infections will sour your beer pretty quickly and will grow visual chunks of nastiness in the beer. It doesn't sound like you have an infection, just an off batch.

Your off taste may come from underpitching too, not just infection. I had this on a couple of my batches before I learned more about yeast health. If you dont use enough yeast, you end up with some off flavors from esters that they produce as a result. If your OG is around 1.050 or less, you're generally ok with one smack pack or vial, but if you start going above that range you need more yeast. you can get more from a starter, or pitching two packs/ vials. Too high of a temperature results in off flavors too, unless you're using some of the Belgian strains.

So what I am hearing is that a beer infection is probably like spoiled milk or a rotten egg, when it happens you will know for sure

jb1677 said:

So what I am hearing is that a beer infection is probably like spoiled milk or a rotten egg, when it happens you will know for sure

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I would disagree. I have a batch now I'm not sure about. I think I'm tasting diacetyl along with some other "off" flavors. Best thing you can do is have someone who knows what they're doing try it. That way you can learn as well.

At the risk of sounding like a snob, I think most people underestimate the amount of contamination in their beers. From my experience even a lot of popular craft breweries have problems with sanitation as well. Let your beer warm up and the problems tend to stand out more.

I think I've narrowed my problem down to scratches in my buckets. I'm going to start using all glass or better bottles and see if that fixes it.

One trick I learned is after you boil your wort cool it (and before pitching your yeast) take a couple milliliters and put it in a sanitized jar. Cover with sanitized foil and see how long it takes for something to start growing. 24hrs is OK. A week is awesome.

Off flavors and infections are not the same thing.

Infections occur due to sanitation problems and something invading your beer. Off flavors are produced if your process is not sound: examples:
Under pitching
Too high fermentation temps
Poor aeration
Poor yeast health
Improper fermentation
Using equipment that is not food grade

Diacytel is an undesired(in most styles) and unwanted off flavor, it is not an infection.

There are other off flavors that occur for various reasons but also are not infections-see link below

Infections will usually cause a beer to sour and its pretty rapid and definitely noticeable with no question of its origin

http://www.kroc.org/Links/TroubleshootingGuide.htm

Diacetyl can be from an infection. In normal circumstances the yeast will usually clean it up.

There is always some extent of contamination in any beer we drink. most of the time it's acceptable. That's why we say sanitize not sterilize. It's more like a dimmer switch. Not on or off.

Yes off flavors can be attributed to many different things. But I wouldn't categorize it so strictly.

Make sure you practice good sanitation
Follow a sensible recipe
Use common sense about the age of your ingredients
Always pitch enough yeast
Pitch at the right temps

99% of the time you'll make at least a good beer.

In my case I am trying to eliminate sources of "off flavors" and hoped I could make a sweeping "its not an infection" declaration so that I could eliminate things like my fermenters as the culprit. When I say infection I am talking an unwanted fungus (like Brettanomyces) or bacteria (like lactobacillus) and wanted to be sure that these things are crystal clear, that there is no "slightly infected" with lactobacillus. I guess I am trying to see if its possible to mistake bitter vs sour, if an actual sour beer is so clear that there is no mistaking it.

To get a Brett infection is uncommon as is a lacto infection. Your culprit is probably something more along the lines of a common bacteria or fungus around the house. Yes there are infections that you will notice without a doubt as being an infection. But most are completely undetectable until the yeast has done its thing and the infection has time to take a foothold. Its kinda like bread going moldy in the pantry. The longer you wait the worse it gets.

From what it sounds like you use sound enough procedures that aren't going to affect your beer because of your process. You can do a lot of crazy things making beer. Like dumping hot wort through a strainer into a bucket full of ice risking HSA. And then win an award for best in show with the same beer.

My point is you can dwell on every step in your brewing process till you're blue in the face. But one misstep will negate everything you where trying to prevent. The worst part about it is you probably won't even know you did it. Does that mean it will be a bad beer? No! But practicing bad sanitation is like rolling the dice.

Now, If you have a hard time deciphering bitter from sour I would recommend letting other people try it. If it mellows overtime it's probably just bitter from the hops or tannins and should mellow out. If its sour its from a contamination and will get worse. My only other suggestion is to relax and give it some time. Beer change greatly as it matures and some take longer than others.

EDIT: brett and lacto bugs can be common in some rare cases. Most of the time they hide in scratches and are a reoccurring problem for that brewer. Most sour beers are caused by acetobacter. A more common bacteria found around the house. It's used in the production of vinegar.

How did this beer turn out?

ok i know this is someone else hijacking this thread.. i just wanted to say i pitched my yeast at 80f.. am i going to have off flavors??

yep

bob3000 said:

yep

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Haha in a nut shell this is true. What's the style and type of yeast? It may not be a bad thing.

well its a gluten free amber ale made from sorghum syrup and rice syrup .. dry yeast safale 04

tommyguner03 said:

well its a gluten free amber ale made from sorghum syrup and rice syrup .. dry yeast safale 04

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From my experience you'll be fine. Just try to keep the esters down with a lower fermentation temp. When you hydrate the yeast they are dumped into about 95 degree water. So it's not like you shocked the yeast or anything. Just keep it cool. It may be a little estery but that may not be a bad thing! It's all about personal taste.

Beer_me_plz said:

From my experience you'll be fine. Just try to keep the esters down with a lower fermentation temp. When you hydrate the yeast they are dumped into about 95 degree water. So it's not like you shocked the yeast or anything. Just keep it cool. It may be a little estery but that may not be a bad thing! It's all about personal taste.

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Good point.. It has been just about two weeks and sitting at 68F ..