My Founders Brewing Co Story

It seems to me the response pasted in the original post is perfectly polite and professional. And it does answer the questions asked. It is not 'fired back' and it's certainly not 'dehumanized. communication'.

At one of the spectrum the complainers think protected information which helps ensure the company's continued success should be freely available. They even try to justify that giving away their recipe will help sales (good luck convincing any serious person with that). On the other end of this cyclic argument they criticize the brewery's PR practices. Seriously. Really.

It's hard to believe the comments brought up in this thread about this excellent brewery.

MisterTipsy said:

If you feel alienated as a potential customer because you didn't get a custom made response, you are definitely taking it personally. You feel disrespected as a potential customer because they didn't take the time to write a letter especially for you. If that's not taking it personally, I don't know what is.

Fortunately for Founders, you can't buy their beer or stop buying it simply because they sent you a canned response. When they get around to distributing in CA, don't buy their beer. That will really teach them a lesson in PR.

You definitely aren't taking it as personally as the OP. I'd like to read his huffy puffy letter that he sent Founders after he didn't get what he wanted. I'm sure it's pure gold.

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I'm not taking it personally at all. I never once said I felt disrespected or alienated. Stop putting words in my mouth (fingers) and try re-reading what I actually posted.

In my reply to their canned answer, I said...

Michelle,

While I understand, I was hoping Founders would follow Stone's suit and be willing to share a reasonable facsimile home brew recipe.

Until Fonders can distribute to CA I guess I'll just have to retort with sadpanda.

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Doesn't really seem like I felt disrespected, or alienated or that I communicated a way to indicate that they owed my anything does it?

Jukas said:

I'm not taking it personally at all. I never once said I felt disrespected or alienated. Stop putting words in my mouth (fingers) and try re-reading what I actually posted.

In my reply to their canned answer, I said...

Doesn't really seem like I felt disrespected, or alienated or that I communicated a way to indicate that they owed my anything does it?

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but you also said

Dehumanizing communications only lends to alienating consumers, it's their right to communicate in such a way, it just may or may not be in their best interest.

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So according to you, they alienate consumers, but not you, the person who made the claim. Got it.

MisterTipsy said:

but you also said

Dehumanizing communications only lends to alienating consumers, it's their right to communicate in such a way, it just may or may not be in their best interest.

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So according to you, they alienate consumers, but not you, the person who made the claim. Got it.

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lends to != guaranteed to. It's true I said it, and it's true I believe it. However in this particular case I have so little interaction with Founders (since I can only get it through trades) that I'm not likely to see that kind of continued interaction from them that could lead to alienating me as a consumer. Perhaps I should have stated that clearer.

Though from what others have said, it seems that style of communication mostly seems happens via email. Either way, we're down to circular semantics now. You believe it's perfectly acceptable and professional for them to reply he way they did (and technically it is) and I believe (solely in my opinion) they could do better in their communication with consumers.

Sounds good to me. I'm now almost convinced you didn't take it personally.

The OP is a different story.....

It seems to me that a lot of good brewing time has been wasted on an insignificant issue!

MisterTipsy said:

The OP is a different story.....

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...Or did you take this thread personally? Jeez...it’s still going? 9 pages later?

I posted over 2 weeks ago that they replied back to me with actual information about the process rather than a canned response. My response to them must have been "gold" since it worked...and by the way, they sent me a t-shirt and stickers too.

You will be likely be devastated to hear that my 5 gallon batch of Cashew Mountain Brown is now fermenting. I am currently researching marketing opportunities to put Founders out of business with it...

caber2615 said:

I am currently researching marketing opportunities to put Founders out of business with it...

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Wonderful!

LOL, good luck putting them out of business (I know it was a joke...). Care to share the recipe and process for introducing the cashews?!?!?

JordanThomas said:

Care to share the recipe and process for introducing the cashews?!?!?

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They crush up an "insane" amount of cashews and introduce them in fermentation vessels and the maple barrells they age it in.

MisterTipsy said:

Now we are back to the circular argument of Brewery XYZ does it, so other breweries should too which is complete non-sense.

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I don't think anyone is necessarily saying that they should release recipe info, just pointing out that any argument that says it would hurt their business to do so is flawed because so many successful breweries do it with no adverse effect on sales. As you yourself said, it's not like there's many ways you could add nuts anyway. A few test batches and it can be figured out. So we're just wondering what they really think they are accomplishing by not helping a homebrewer out. If they really wanted to keep it top-secret, why even point out that it was cashews that they added? They could have just said "brown ale with secret ingredients". Either way, I'm done with this argument. Obviously nobody is going to convince anybody else to change their minds on this one. Some of us are arguing that a good reason needs to be made as to how it would benefit the brewery, some are arguing that a good reason needs to be made as to how it will hurt them. I can see both sides, but my main thing is that there's no reason to not share info, when sharing that info is not going to hurt you in any way. Unless someone can name me a case where a successful brewery shared recipe info and then all of a sudden people stopped buying their beer.

I'm always blown away by the brewers who agree to do the in depth interview for the BN's CYBI show, which in turn, depending how forward the brewer is with their info, they end up providing an exact recipe, including water adjustments in mot cases to clone their beer. I sometimes wonder why they do it, which I can only assume is a love for homebrewing, but I often wonder if I were them, would I do the same?

Matt B. from Firestone Walker giving up most of their line up to include the complete breakdown of Union Jack? John Maier of Rogue giving out the Shakespeare stout recipe to a T? I'm amazed at how some brewers give back to the homebrew community, as is their right. It's also the right of other breweries not to give out anything.... It's just lame when they don't

AdamWiz said:

Either way, I'm done with this argument.... Unless someone can name me a case where a successful brewery shared recipe info and then all of a sudden people stopped buying their beer.

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How about the bottom line that their information is theirs to share or keep, that their choice is to keep it for their own reasons, and there's nothing you can do about it except flap your lips.

iambeer said:

How about the bottom line that their information is theirs to share or keep, that their choice is to keep it for their own reasons

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You're not getting what I'm saying. Let me say it AGAIN: Nobody, myself included, is saying that the information is not theirs to share or keep. Nobody is saying they are not within their rights by keeping secrets. Nobody is saying they have to tell us exactly how to brew their beer. We are simply saying that they really have nothing to fear in sharing. And no good argument has been made that shows otherwise. As I pointed out earlier, several of the BEST SELLING craft beers in the country all have homebrew recipes out there, many shared directly by the brewers

AdamWiz said:

I don't think anyone is necessarily saying that they should release recipe info, just pointing out that any argument that says it would hurt their business to do so is flawed because so many successful breweries do it with no adverse effect on sales.

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Now where exactly in there did I say that it was not a brewer's right to keep a secret, or that they owed us something?

I guess I was lying when I claimed I was done with this argument, but I just couldn't help it. Just when I think I'm done, you chime in with yet another pompous, snarky post.

duckmanco said:

I'm amazed at how some brewers give back to the homebrew community, as is their right. It's also the right of other breweries not to give out anything.... It's just lame when they don't

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DING DING DING!!!!!! We have a winner! I think this says it best.

iambeer said:

How about the bottom line that their information is theirs to share or keep, that their choice is to keep it for their own reasons, and there's nothing you can do about it except flap your lips.

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How about the bottom line that they should be respectful of fans and customers. That doesn't mean they have to give out secrets, but it also means that they don't have to be dicks about it. I think you lost sight of the original point that they were a bit rude about it. That being said, they eventually relented and gave out some basic info.

It is amazing how two people can have completely different points of view and both feel in their bones that they are correct. Anyway, it's no reason to get bent out of shape.

iambeer said:

It is amazing how two people can have completely different points of view and both feel in their bones that they are correct. Anyway, it's no reason to get bent out of shape.

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Amen brother! Its just beer, stop the brewer on brewer violence.

iambeer said:

It is amazing how two people can have completely different points of view and both feel in their bones that they are correct. Anyway, it's no reason to get bent out of shape.

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It's not necessarily that someone is right and someone is wrong - we're just kind of arguing different points. You're arguing that it is their right to keep secrets if they want (which nobody is disagreeing with). I'm arguing that their business wouldn't be harmed by sharing. Really, we're both correct.

Caucasian said:

Amen brother! Its just beer, stop the brewer on brewer violence.

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No malice intended here, and no hard feelings. Just a healthy debate between brewers. I apologize if things got a little more heated than necessary, but I certainly don't harbor any ill will towards any of those on the other side of this argument.

I like breweries like deschutes brewery who give you alot of the info, like the malts and hops they use, but not the amounts. If fun to try and reverse engineer the recipe from what they give you.

mlyday said:

I like breweries like deschutes brewery who give you alot of the info, like the malts and hops they use, but not the amounts. If fun to try and reverse engineer the recipe from what they give you.

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I enjoy that as well. In fact, I have seen some craft breweries (although I can't seem to remember which ones right now) put right on the labels what types of malts and hops are in each beer.

Wow, this thread sort of exploded huh?

Put my two cents in. I think you probably over reacted a bit (you have admitted that) and in your shoes I probably would have at first too. That being said, sharing their information is their call, and canned responses, as much as they suck, are there for a reason usually.

I would say this, the cashew question wasn't a big deal and he DID tell you later, so thats cool, but the Yeast thing doesn't surprise me at all, as most places use house yeast strains and thats how they obtain and retain "house" flavors. (I would love to figure out what yeasts HalfAcre in Chicago uses).

I would love to figure out what yeasts HalfAcre in Chicago uses

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A buddy of mine received a recipe straight from the brewer and they said they used WLP051