Munich Helles 2011 1st Place HBT- Light lager- Augustiner Lagerbier Hell

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Thanks! I appreciate it. I have a while to decide..and I still have some melanoidin left from this batch, so I will most likely use it in the next one. Prob brew it in May. Will post pics as this one gets done!

You could create your own melanoiden the old fashioned way.

A decoction will produce melanoiden and will certainly be organic. You won't even really have to perform a multi-step decoction. With 1/2 hour left in your mash schedule, pull a gallon or two of thick grist (I use a big strainer), add that to a pot, cover the grist with wort and slowly bring it to a boil.

Hold that thick grist at a boil for 10 minutes (stir a LOT) and add it back to the tun at mash-out time. You'll raise your mash temps and infuse a level of melanoiden. It can be a bit sloppy but it's no big deal.
 
You could create your own melanoiden the old fashioned way.

A decoction will produce melanoiden and will certainly be organic. You won't even really have to perform a multi-step decoction. With 1/2 hour left in your mash schedule, pull a gallon or two of thick grist (I use a big strainer), add that to a pot, cover the grist with wort and slowly bring it to a boil.

Hold that thick grist at a boil for 10 minutes (stir a LOT) and add it back to the tun at mash-out time. You'll raise your mash temps and infuse a level of melanoiden. It can be a bit sloppy but it's no big deal.

Thanks! I might try this as well. I do my BIAB in my garage, all electric. I don't have a propane burner there, though I do have one in the backyard on my BBQ. In an attached house though...so would have to go through downstairs to the backyard and back.
 
I finally got around to trying this last night. I had put the gas on it Tuesday. It tasted great! The picture isn't great, but it's the only one I had. A few weeks ago I was having problems with one of my taps leaking. I took it all apart, soaked it in PBW, put it all back together, seemed fine. Last night my entire keg of lager slow leaked down the garage drain. Sadness beer.

lager_fail.jpg
 
Augustiner Helles is quintessential Munchen! While I appreciate that a clone may not be totally possible, this forum has provided a great deal of useful information for crafting my own Helles. Thanks to everyone who contributed!!! I wanted to share a photo of a liter from my most recent tapping of what I'm calling "4th Star Helles". Cheers!

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Outstanding! Thank you for sharing the picture. Looks delicious! :mug:


Augustiner Helles is quintessential Munchen! While I appreciate that a clone may not be totally possible, this forum has provided a great deal of useful information for crafting my own Helles. Thanks to everyone who contributed!!! I wanted to share a photo of a liter from my most recent tapping of what I'm calling "4th Star Helles". Cheers!
 
I brewed this again last night(hard to get time to brew with an 18 month old in the house).
10 lb 8 oz 2-Row
9.6 oz Cara Pils
9.6 oz Munich
2.4 oz Melanoiden
8.5 gallons water to start
154 degrees mash for 75 minutes
60 minute boil
1 tsp Gypsum
and
1.25 oz Hallertauer Mittelfrueh

Hit my OG of 1.051

Ran through counterflow chiller, got it down to 70 degrees
threw it in my fermenter/chest freezer(brewPi) overnight to get it to 54 degrees. Was at about 55 degrees this morning(after about 8 hours cooling). I rehydrated Saflager Lager 34/70 and pitched. Will post results.
Note that I had some 'older' grain, but it was in sealed plastic bags and in a Vittle Vault. Hops were also a bit older, but I had them in the original sealed bags in the fridge.
 
I brewed this again last night(hard to get time to brew with an 18 month old in the house).
10 lb 8 oz 2-Row
9.6 oz Cara Pils
9.6 oz Munich
2.4 oz Melanoiden
8.5 gallons water to start
154 degrees mash for 75 minutes
60 minute boil
1 tsp Gypsum
and
1.25 oz Hallertauer Mittelfrueh

Hit my OG of 1.051

Ran through counterflow chiller, got it down to 70 degrees
threw it in my fermenter/chest freezer(brewPi) overnight to get it to 54 degrees. Was at about 55 degrees this morning(after about 8 hours cooling). I rehydrated Saflager Lager 34/70 and pitched. Will post results.
Note that I had some 'older' grain, but it was in sealed plastic bags and in a Vittle Vault. Hops were also a bit older, but I had them in the original sealed bags in the fridge.

Kegged it last night. Hit my FG of 1.012. Fermented at 54 for 10 days. Then set it to 58 for 7 days. Did a rest for 3 days at 65. Dropped it to 40 for two weeks before kegging. Took a taste pre CO2, tastes great. Will post a pic Monday night when I have the first glass!
 
Augustiner Helles is quintessential Munchen! While I appreciate that a clone may not be totally possible, this forum has provided a great deal of useful information for crafting my own Helles. Thanks to everyone who contributed!!! I wanted to share a photo of a liter from my most recent tapping of what I'm calling "4th Star Helles". Cheers!


Howdy (semi-close) neighbor!

I am quite fanatical about German beer and brewing, so if you ever want to stop over for a helles or 2 let me know, I am about 20 min from you.
Posting obligatory helles (not this recipe, but the recipe for Weihenstepaner Original).
19875221_949319471877320_3182336166522841583_n.jpg
 
So I realized that I accidentally used all the melanoidin malt for the red ale recipe and didn't have any left for this one. :smack:

Going ahead with it anyway. Will be the first lager I do in a while!
 
Just brewed this with Saflager w34/70. Using the warm ferment setup per http://brulosophy.com/2016/02/08/fe...ager-yeast-saflager-3470-exbeeriment-results/ Hoping this turns out good! I only pitched one packet of yeast though and looks like it should've had two packs per the article. Anywho it's been around 24 hours now and there's airlock activity every 11 seconds or so. Also I over shot the OG a bit at 1.056. Got a tad more efficiency than I was expecting!
 
Just took a gravity reading and I'm down to 1.016. I went ahead and pulled the primary from the water bath. The wort temp was 54f. It's now sitting around 68. It's been cool and I wanted to ramp up the heat anyways to help the yeast clean up/diacetyl rest. The krausen has pretty much dropped and I'm hoping to be able to rack to a carboy and set in the fridge for lagering/cold crashing/gelatin fining once the gravity settles down for a few days.
 
Just had my first taste of this beer with some friends and didn't quite turn out how I had hoped. We all agreed it tasted a lot like Budweiser to be completely honest. Very clean start then right into a grainy taste that finished just like bud. No esters or fusel alcohols that I can tell.

Followed the exact recipe, with single decoction.
3L starter.
OG was 1056 FG 1010. Mash temp 150-152
Fermentation in a SS unitank unit at 53 degrees for 8 days
Diacetyl rest at 65 for 2 days for final 15/20% of fermentation
Cold crash to 40 for a week with yeast dump 2 days before transfer.
Pressure transferred to kegs
Tapped after week and a half (I know it's early, but I was very curious about the flavor I was tasting when it was in the unitank)


I tasted the beer through the final phases of fermentation and noticed the Budweiser flavor early on.

Mad a 10G batch so the other 5G will hang out for awhile....maybe it will change.

Very suprised at the taste. I drink Augustiner brau every chance I get and this batch was not close.

Thinking about it- one: yeast starter was was too small.
Two: not sure I would use two row again. Wondering if that's why I have such a heavy grainy taste.

Thoughts?

TK
 
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Just had my first taste of this beer with some friends and didn't quite turn out how I had hoped. We all agreed it tasted a lot like Budweiser to be completely honest. Very clean start then right into a grainy taste that finished just like bud. No esters or fusel alcohols that I can tell.

Followed the exact recipe, with single decoction.
3L starter.
OG was 1056 FG 1010. Mash temp 150-152
Fermentation in a SS unitank unit at 53 degrees for 8 days
Diacetyl rest at 65 for 2 days for final 15/20% of fermentation
Cold crash to 40 for a week with yeast dump 2 days before transfer.
Pressure transferred to kegs
Tapped after week and a half (I know it's early, but I was very curious about the flavor I was tasting when it was in the unitank)


I tasted the beer through the final phases of fermentation and noticed the Budweiser flavor early on.

Mad a 10G batch so the other 5G will hang out for awhile....maybe it will change.

Very suprised at the taste. I drink Augustiner brau every chance I get and this batch was not close.

Thinking about it- one: yeast starter was was too small.
Two: not sure I would use two row again. Wondering if that's why I have such a heavy grainy taste.

Thoughts?

TK


Hello TK,

Sorry to hear about your graininess. I have found that I get more graininess from Pilsner malts than straight 2-row.

I can think of two other possibilities.

Could you be tasting some oxidation? Your process may or may not introduce the wort to oxygen but a decoction certainly will.

The other question(s) are about sparging. Could you be sparging with too much water? Is the water too hot (I have done this and have had grainy results)?

Are you a batch sparger? Do you drain the wort from the tun completely then add your second batch sparge water? This can certainly extract some graininess from the husks.

Joe
 
For the decoction, I tried to he careful and not splash too much, but it may have been enough.

I don't do batches. I do a vorlauf and then sparge with hose sitting on top of the grain bed under the water level. Sparge water was at 170ish. I do remember using an extra gallon of sparge water come to think of it since my preboil gravity was higher than expected. Maybe I did extract more the grain bed than just sugar.
I also say my grain to water ratio was 2.0 thanks to an error in my equipment profile...i usually do 1.5.

I bet that's how I screwed up...to much sparge water and my ratio was off for my system which has a large "dead space" under the false bottom.

Thanks for the help.
 
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Took another sample and it's sitting right at 1.010 so the yeasties are done munching on the sugars. No more diacetyl can be detected. There's a slight twang (I mean VERY slight) that needs to possibly be cleaned up by the yeast (saflager w34/70) before lagering I think. Going to give it a few more days at room temp and see if this cleans up. If not then it's fridge time for a bit! Either way it's a very clean brew. Already making adjustments for the next one :)
 
Sampled again this morning and the yeast has cleaned up real well! I have to say this is the recipe that was the straw that broke the camels back when it came to upgrading :) Ended up getting a fridge for fermentation/cold crashing/lagering/fining just a few hours ago and well...You know what's about to happen. It's lager/cold crash time! Will definitely be brewing this again! May try adding a bit of Saaz at the tail end of the boil next time and see how that turns out.
 
Howdy (semi-close) neighbor!

I am quite fanatical about German beer and brewing, so if you ever want to stop over for a helles or 2 let me know, I am about 20 min from you.
Posting obligatory helles (not this recipe, but the recipe for Weihenstepaner Original).
19875221_949319471877320_3182336166522841583_n.jpg


Any chance you’d share that recipe for the Weihenstephaner Original? PM if you like-thanks!
 
Bear with me if this post is a bit lengthy and not immediately helpful in terms of recipe design, but Augustiner Hell is a matter very close to my heart, and even closer to my liver. In terms of total consumption, it has to take rank #3 among all beverages, behind water and coffee. This post mostly contains general mumblings and unsubstantiated reflections on this iconic brew. Almost all of it is opinionated. Towards the end, you will find some stuff that might be more relevant for replication.

The Augustiner brewery has never run a single ad, yet every teenager growing up in Munich learns from older friends that Augustiner is the only good Helles, while the preferences for Weißbier vary (Augustiner also makes a delightful Weißbier, but its status is nowhere near that of Augustiner Hell). For the sake of accuracy, I should add that Tegernseer Spezial has attracted quite a few followers over the recent years as well, but I will just brush over that fact for now.
Outside of pubs, it is mostly drank straight from the bottle: during the summer months on the riverbed of the Isar, and at home parties throughout the year. Just now: party on new years eve? Augustiner. Hanging out after helping a friend move? Augustiner.

In my opinion, drinking it straight from the bottle is not really the spark of joy it ought to be. The carbonation level is rather high (I am also quite sensitive to carbonation, so others might feel differently) and all you get from each sip is a strange combination of cellar, sugar and a slight bitterness. It seems not to bother a lot of people, but I grab a mug whenever I can. To get rid of some of the carbonation, I pour rather aggressively, wait for the foam to settle, then pour the rest later. Observing this routine, people tend to assume I have no idea what I'm doing and that I am just now pouring my first pint ever. But eh, it's a nice change from being considered a beer snob, so I'll take it. Also, when served on tap, you will invariably find that the carbonation is indeed very low, to the point that you will rather quickly find it stale if you're not drinking quickly enough. The brewery is known to be very thorough in managing all affiliated pubs and dialing everything in to offer a consistent experience across town. I am convinced that this low carbonation level is not a coincidence.

So my advice for anyone trying to replicate this beer is: shoot for a slightly lower carbonation level. It helps bring out the softness. The sharpness of CO2 can easily cut through the subtle flavours.

Now to the recipe at hand: the OG seems a tad high. Augustiner is brewed at 11.5 Plato or 1.046. I wouldn't go above 1.048. The yeast should be suitable, but I've never used it myself (only got a fridge a couple brews back, just getting into doing lagers). "The internet" attributes WLP 860 (and the equivalent Imperial L17 Harvest) to Augustiner, so that might be worth a shot as well (regardless of its true origin, it seems to be a good yeast). Using some Munich and Melanoidin malt to make up for the decoction should work, but - judging from the pictures in this thread, and lighting might be an issue here - the beer might come out a bit too dark. The IBUs and 60 minute noble hop addition seems just right. It's always tempting to throw in some hops later for added hoppy goodness, but while that will certainly also yield a tasty brew, the homebrewer eager to replicate Augustiner should imo shy away from significant additions towards the end of the boil. Certainly, all hops should be added with at least 15 minutes left in the boil. When fresh (and not drank from the bottle!), Augustiner Hell does seem to have a very slight floral note, so I wouldn't dismiss the idea of a 15 minute addition altogether. The Carapils should not have a great impact on the taste, but I've been really pleased with its impact on foam stability, so I'd keep that.

Don't try and replicate Munich water. It sucks. There's a reason beers in Munich were dark until 1896. Use soft water, as you would with any light colored delicate beer. I should also add that the municipal water in Munich is not actually Munich's "own" water. All major breweries in Munich - including Augustiner - have their own well where they get "real Munich water". So, in particular, do not follow the water reports of the city of Munich: it's not the base water the breweries use, and I am certain that they treat their water.

Another factor whose impact might be hard to judge is the fact that Augustiner also produces malt, a "Tennenmalz" where the the germinating grain is spread over a large surface. Afaik, the actual percentage of this "Tennenmalz" is unknown. A while back, they were about to shut down the malthouse (apologies if that expression is incorrect) because of the cost of space etc., but decided against it after performing a test run (at least that's what they claim, maybe there have been other factors). So using some 15-20% of floor malted pilsner (or some other more characterful pilsner malt) might be a good idea; I'd probably throw out the Munich then.


Ok, this concludes my contribution to this thread for now. I hope it can be helpful to some of you - I've probably had more Augustiner Hell than all other posters in this thread combined ;) . I've never tried to make a Helles myself - homebrewing has been sort of an escape from Helles, actually - but I might try and make one for a friend's birthday party in March. Take it all with a grain of barley
 
It was a joy reading that last post @monkeymath I’ve never had fresh Austiner, might be worth the trip Germany alone.
I’m gonna brew this tomorrow but plan to use magnum for bittering (15 ibu) and add 1oz of saaz at 15 minutes (4ibu), per your sort of recomendation. I think It sounds great with a little extra zap. But any objections to that hop schedule?
 
It was a joy reading that last post @monkeymath I’ve never had fresh Austiner, might be worth the trip Germany alone.
I’m gonna brew this tomorrow but plan to use magnum for bittering (15 ibu) and add 1oz of saaz at 15 minutes (4ibu), per your sort of recomendation. I think It sounds great with a little extra zap. But any objections to that hop schedule?

I'm glad to hear that :)

I feel that Mittelfrüh would come closest to the "floral aroma" I get from fresh Augustiner, but I might easily be wrong here (my nose is not exactly the finest instrument, and my categorizations might be even worse).
That said, Saaz is a delightful - yet rather different - hops, and it certainly works beautifully in a pale lager.
 
Well I rebrewed this on Sunday. I've come a LONG way in brewing (local brewery has used a recipe of mine for package and sell) so wanted to test the waters with a light lager so figured what the heck? Really eager to see how this comes out now that I have temp control! Crazy to see this was the brew that started it all, a few years ago, in regards to a fermentation chamber :)
 
Thank you for the great recipe! I brewed it this past Sunday. 15L / 4 gal batch, pressure fermented (15 PSI) at room temperature (26 C) with one packet of Lallemand Diamond lager yeast. On day 7 it is already very drinkable. Nice and refreshing :) I will most definitely brew this one again soon!👏
DSCF1067.jpeg
 
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Thank you for the great recipe! I brewed it this past Sunday. 15L / 4 gal batch, pressure fermented (15 PSI) at room temperature (26 C) with one packet of Lallemand Diamond lager yeast. On day 7 it is already very drinkable. Nice and refreshing :) I will most definitely brew this one again soon!👏View attachment 696017

Very cool glass!
 
Just looking over the recipe, id say to get a closer taste would be to simple up the grain bill. Switch over to a german or bohemian produced grain. I find american grain to be somewhat bland and cant get the slight malt taste out of it for a helles. Whatever grain used, it needs some character, so maybe a smaller malt house.

Floor malted grain was a good suggestion as part of it.

Use those grains to produce characteristics through process. You can always add the others and skip process, but process also adds its own twist to outcomes. Generally, german beers are fantastic using simple ingredients because germans are much more process oriented.

From drinking Augustiner, i would think the ibu is higher than the 16, could be attributed to what hop choice is used. It is more bitter than the pilsner. Its not a bitter beer, just noticeable to me. May have something to do with what hop is used and that specific hops alpha and beta levels for example. An american substitute could be something like cluster with may e another pairing.

Pitching a large amount of yeast is a good idea, get alot of initial oxygen for the yeast. probably bigger than the starter in the recipie, im not sure how many cells is in that vs say someone elses 1 liter starter. Lots of initial oxygen.

Certain processes we are just not going to replicate. Theres alot of things they may do like open fermentation, secondaries, barrel stored, ext things that are process that do effect taste.

This type of beer using a simplified bill really expands the experience of the brewer, and the quality level of the brew.
 
Brewed this yesterday as a 5 gallon batch. Modified the recipe a bit by using 2 packs of saflager 34/70 for yeast and I moved about 20% of the hops to a 15 minute addition instead of doing them all at 60 minutes. Currently in primary at 51 F. Excited to see how a German recipe with affordable US 2-row as a base comes out!
 
First I've got to give you all a congratulations! Homebrew is 10x better than anything you can get retail. Hone your craft. My favorite is the lasagna analogy. Which is better? Lasagna your mother makes or the stuff you buy at the grocery store?

This beer just keeps getting better & better with age. Letting it age in the cold keg has worked a magic. I've let it sit for another month in my Keezer while I finished off Centennial Blond. The foam & bubbles in the head increased. The brightness in the beer has gotten sharper. The clarity has improved. The taste has gotten better. Wow! It was just good initially, now it's a show stopper.

It's not a hop forward IPA. It's a German Helles that focuses on the malt. It's a beer that tastes like beer. Not some trendy Ice Cream Fudgesicle or Chocolate Strawberry Stout.

I got ahold of the commercial version of Augustiner Lagerbier at my local BevMo here in California. It was terrible. This stuff doesn't travel well over the ocean. This homebrew version is excellent. Thank you Joe.

Just on a whim I when to YouTube & checked for a review of Augustiner, there were about 15 different videos.

Now I'm going to switch things up with my next batch, Imperial Yeast L17 Harvest which advertises itself as an Augustiner strain. The Monkey is right! Let's try it. I bought a new stir plate off Amazon, my DIY version lasted 7 years. I can only hope this new one lasts that long. With 4000 positive reviews, I think I'm good.

https://www.altitudebrew.com/products/imperial-yeast-l17-harvest-augustiner
I was thinking of giving Omega Bayern a shot too since it's supposedly the Augustiner strain. My experience with dry yeast has not been a good one. It's been years since I even tried, I guess it's time for some of these new varieties? But it looks like rtstrider likes these liquid yeasts too. What do you think?

Just another FYI, I started using Joe's suggestion of a Whirfloc tablet at the 15 minute mark in the boil, it brightens up this beer dramatically. I'm going to start adding Whirfloc to every boil for every beer. It's also pretty evident by simply looking at the previous pictures here.

Now I'm going to make this a staple in my Kegerator. I'll experiment with different yeasts & different volumes of grains but keeping the names the same. I'm using Google to research what each grain will do before I use it. Learn. Increase my Knowledge. Experiment! The final judge will have to be my taste buds.

Look what I found:
 

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Pitched the yeast about 2 hours ago now. Hit the OG on the dot! Really curious to see how this turns out in the pressure fermenter
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