Yeast questions for my Extract kit

Hi folks Im new here, Just got some questions for u guys. Im doing a partial mash for a "Blue-moon" clone, and a "Red Ale" clone partial mash using a mutton's kit, and the "Blue-Moon" clone from a recipe i found here on the forums.

Question 1: my blue moon clone called for WYeast 1214 Belgian abbey. I bought the smack pack and waited for 12 hours and the pack never inflated however when i got fed up i threw it into some yeast nutrient and energizer waited 15 mins and pitched it. checked on my batch at 8 hours and it wasn't fermenting. "Was it a bad idea to throw some unused yeast/starter i had from coopers in there with it?" "And if so WHY?"

Side note: The batch went nuts on the 14th hour mark and started to fill my airlock with some yeast and and hop,s and it bubbled like nuts almost went volcano on me!:rockin:
Also, It has 2 days left and the gravity is now at 1.004 when it was at og 1.67

Question 2: My red ale kit came with some crappy mutton's yeast that didnt have a date. So my LHBS threw me some good Safbrew T-58. "Has anyone ever done this kit before?" Its from TRUE BREW, style RED ALE , "So im wondering was it a bad idea to use my bottling bucket/alternative primary ferment-er with a spigot?"
The reason i ask is that im afraid the trub will be to tall for my batch.The spigot will get filled with trub, so i would have to rack to another bucket then fill or rack to a secondary clean the bucket and fill my bottles from the alternative ferment-er.

Side note: Didn't pitch with a starter for the first time ever and this is still doing very well

Thanks folks for the help

For dry yeast you don't need a starter.

For your first question, you'll have a pretty good wheat beer at the end of all that, it just might not have the belgian character you'd get with the Wyeast. However, 8 hours is way early to be worried about no fermentation. The general rule of thumb around here is 72 hours. In the future you'll be better off if you make a starter with the smack packs though. Not only does it help you get proper pitch rates, it also shows you whether or not your yeast is viable.

For your second question, you should be okay. I've heard of people using bottling buckets as primaries with good results. Did you strain your wort as you poured it in there? If you didn't you might have a problem, but even if you didn't you might be fine.

Thanks for the fast reply man!
I always strain my wort when using whole hops and extra grains!
"calm down have a homebrew moment" still wish i could bounce some Q's off this question "Has anyone ever done this kit before?"

when in the future i need to make a starter using the smack packs "Should i pitch them into strong malt and nutrients that i have boiled then cooled plus a Erlenmeyer flask with a airlock?" "how long should i wait to see the viability"
Actually i think the wyeast is the culprit for making the almost volcano like activity. "ive heard using twice the amount of yeast will yield better cell rate and also may break down more of the sugar that is trapped in the wort, is this true?"

but a couple things.
1 you want to make your starter at about 1040, no need for an air lock, just throw a sanitized piece of foil over the flask, no need for nutrients.
2 Pitching more packs of yeast isn't necesary if you are doing a starter.
3 If you used any wheat in your clone you'll see alot of blow-off.
4 Yeast will do their thing even without a starter, and depending on the style you may want some of the esters that go along with their reproductive cycle

To your first question: Did you take a hydro reading to determine there was no fermentation after only 8 hours, or did you go off of air lock activity?

Germelli1 said:

To your first question: Did you take a hydro reading to determine there was no fermentation after only 8 hours, or did you go off of air lock activity?

Click to expand...

I did take a hydro at the beginning pre pitch 1.067 and when i "checked at 8 hours 1.067"

@JoshuaWhite5522 thanks alot man that explains the esters i taste in the wort and the hops are shining through however the color is off. whit yellow/orange
i hope that the bitterness mellows, also i added some McCormick orange extract; to the secondary's and so far its pretty damn good!

side note: If i could change anything i would cut out the coopers starter and the choice of hops i would use Hallertauer hops instead of the Amarillo! to much sour bitterness overpowering the malt! Ill check it at 9 days and post the result pre bottling!

@ most comments
thanks folks next time i shall not, repeat shall not mix yeasts even if i think its dead (no flocculation/viability) and i will wait 72 hours before i get scared that my yeast is bad.
@ answers
Also if it is dead next time i shall add more yeast from whitelabs or make startter using the yeast for the recipe before pitch.
@ yeast
instead of wyeast as i have done research on this for the last couple of weeks and it seems im not the only one with this problem.
thanks alot all of you.

fallbrew said:

@JoshuaWhite5522 thanks alot man that explains the esters i taste in the wort and the hops are shining through however the color is off. whit yellow/orange

Click to expand...

It always looks darker in the bucket/carboy. Don't worry about it. If the color is off when you have a glass of it, then you can tweak your recipe and/or do late extract additions if you didn't already.

Slowbie nailed it. If you want a lighter beer in the future, save some or all of the extract for the last 10-15 minutes of the boil. That will keep it a bit lighter

Germelli1 said:

Slowbie nailed it. If you want a lighter beer in the future, save some or all of the extract for the last 10-15 minutes of the boil. That will keep it a bit lighter

Click to expand...

then if i want a darker color i have no options availble to me? as the beer is in the carboy now and will be in their to age for 9 days can i add some wort i boil with dark grain to get some color?

You could, it will change your gravity. Speciality malts don't do much to add fermentables to you beer. They are mostly for color and flavors.

To add to the above

If you steeped some darker grains then added some DME to your addition, boiled to sanitize it you could do that. Just be careful with the darker grains you choose, they could end up changing the flavor profile of your brew. Either way you'll problably end up with beer.

fallbrew said:

then if i want a darker color i have no options availble to me? as the beer is in the carboy now and will be in their to age for 9 days can i add some wort i boil with dark grain to get some color?

Click to expand...

Sorry, I misread your post. Since most extract brewers have trouble with their beer too DARK I assumed that was you problem as well.

At this point you need to figure out which is more important to you: Replicating the color of the beer or the flavor. If you want it darker, Joshua already covered that but like he said you run the risk of introducing different flavors to your beer.

I would make note of it in a log and remember to use darker crystal if you choose to brew it in the future

Germelli1 said:

Sorry, I misread your post. Since most extract brewers have trouble with their beer too DARK I assumed that was you problem as well.

At this point you need to figure out which is more important to you: Replicating the color of the beer or the flavor. If you want it darker, Joshua already covered that but like he said you run the risk of introducing different flavors to your beer.

I would make note of it in a log and remember to use darker crystal if you choose to brew it in the future

Click to expand...

Make this a +1 to all that. Most extract brewers only have a problem with their beer being too dark, never too light.

Personally I don't mess with my beer once it goes into the primary. I like to know what my recipe produces, and then if I want to fix it I can mess with the recipe for the next time I brew.

JoshuaWhite5522 said:

You could, it will change your gravity. Specialty malts don't do much to add fermentables to you beer. They are mostly for color and flavors.

Click to expand...

Awesome reply man thanks so so much i did add some chocolate malt and the temp is at 69 and SRM is around 10 perfect for this! you folks are awesome!