To go all grain, or not?

So I have 10 or so extract only recipes under the belt. Ready for the next step. I have an 8 gallon kettle so I could easily go the biab route, I understand there are reasons to skip it and go right for an all grain with mash tun technique. I need to people to speak up and help me make up my mind!!!! BIAB or go for the gold????

why not try one biab and see if you like the results and the extra commitment in time before you go all in.
I personally just went all grain after 2 extract brews.

I guess the thread title doesn't speak to my question. A more fitting title being.... Which all grain direction should I go?!

You'll get more opinions than there are options on what's best.

I'd recommend you read some threads describing the various options and decide what will work best for you. Don't let the mashing math/technique stop you - it's all very simple. Instead, decide based on what process appeals to you most and equipment you want to purchase.

I mash in a cooler and batch sparge and love it...ridiculously easy, simple, portable, cheap.

I think the best route is a round drink cooler mash tun. Pretty inexpensive and highly effective IMO. I'm sure other people with more experience (and more experience on different equipment) have other views, but a cooler is just plain easy. And if you'd desire a direct fired mash tun in the future (keggles etc) you can still use the cooler as a hot liquor tank.

My setup is a 10 gallon round drink cooler with a "kettle valve" and "kettle screen" available at homebrew shops. It could not be simpler to hold proper mash temps, do infusions if necessary, and batch sparge with decent efficiency. (Stir Stir Stir before draining is the sparging method) A stainless hose barb is nice too since brass can supposedly leach lead.

I also have the round cooler and sometimes wish I would've gone rectangular. Just a tough angle to stir sometimes. But it works like a champ.

CityOChampBrew said:

why not try one biab and see if you like the results and the extra commitment in time before you go all in.
I personally just went all grain after 2 extract brews.

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I like that idea. That's sort of what I'm thinking at this point. Thanks for the input. I'm thinking some die hards are going to come out of the woodwork to convince me otherwise. We'll see.

Cheers

when we got done with our first AG brew (after doing extract for years), I turned to my wife and said "that's it? sure it was a longer brew day, but really, that's it?" I had made it up in my head that it was a much bigger process than it really was.

wags13 said:

So I have 10 or so extract only recipes under the belt. Ready for the next step. I have an 8 gallon kettle so I could easily go the biab route, I understand there are reasons to skip it and go right for an all grain with mash tun technique. I need to people to speak up and help me make up my mind!!!! BIAB or go for the gold????

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You say you're ready for the next step, which leads me to believe that you will then want to pursue the following step, whatever that may be. If you have the money and easy access to purchasing all the equipment you need to mash, sparge, and do full boils right now, go for it. If that's not the case, then go get yourself a large bag for the grains. That should be less than $10. Do some BIAB's while you save up, research, and put things together for your all grain system.

my first batch I did extract, second was biab, third was all grain, grab a biab bag for a couple bucks and try it, then when you get all the equipment for all grain, do all grain

I would try BIAB first. The investment is really small. And get yourself a mill. Too many problems occur depending on others to mill your grain for you, and you can't store any unused milled grain for very long.

Then later on, if you would like to try your hand at all-grain brewing without the BIAB method, and after you've read up on batch sparging vs. fly sparging, then you should pick up either a rectangular cooler for batch sparging or a cylindrical cooler for fly sparging. And be sure to make yourself a manifold (rectangular cooler) or false bottom (cylindrical cooler) instead of wasting time and money using a stainless steel braided tube. Trust me on this one.

But seriously. Go with the batch sparging over the fly sparging. Unless you really want to waste an extra hour of your life on brew day and would like to concern yourself with dropping pH rates and all that jazz, just to save yourself 2 bucks on grain.

I'm just going to toss it out there that the BIAB route doesn't need to be an intermediate step. It's becoming increasingly accepted and there are plenty of brewers out there that use this setup exclusively. It's easy. It's cheap. It's more space efficient. There are a lot of benefits. I guess it comes down to how you want to do it. I know a brewer who would never do BIAB because they like all their fancy, shiny Blichmann kettles that they paid a ton of money for and like showing off their setup filled with gadgets and processes. I do BIAB because it's easy and simple which is the opposite route I guess and my beer is pretty dang good.

Your probably going to go All grain anyway, so go for it. I did extract for my first year, but looking back I should've started with AG. I don't know what your budget is, but it's not really that much more money. My beer was actually much better when I started AG IMHO. Good luck.

I like it! Thanks!

inhousebrew said:

I'm just going to toss it out there that the BIAB route doesn't need to be an intermediate step. It's becoming increasingly accepted and there are plenty of brewers out there that use this setup exclusively. It's easy. It's cheap. It's more space efficient. There are a lot of benefits. I guess it comes down to how you want to do it. I know a brewer who would never do BIAB because they like all their fancy, shiny Blichmann kettles that they paid a ton of money for and like showing off their setup filled with gadgets and processes. I do BIAB because it's easy and simple which is the opposite route I guess and my beer is pretty dang good.

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Yeah I agree. I immediately made a mash tun from a cooler and prefer doing it that way for the most part. On some lower gravity beers I'll do BIAB but overall I find the mash tun to be more preferable.

I went all grain and converted an old Coleman cooler into a mash tun, I think I spent 20$, mostly for the ball valve. Later I tried out biab and found it extremely annoying. So I will never do it again. I guess its a matter of preference

I started doing BIAB as the intermediate step to all grain and never stopped as well. It makes AG brewing in cramped apartments possible. But even if I had more space I would probably stay BIAB because it's as simple and as messless (assuming you don't drip the bag everywhere) as it gets.

+1 on getting a mill though. Even though I do a mock sparge my efficiency was AWFUL (like ~55%) for my first few batches. With BIAB you can mill finer because stuck sparges aren't an issue to boost efficiency.

Question for those who are pushing for the cooler mash tun technique, or anyone who is interested in chiming in. I'd like to move to the next "step" without breaking the bank. I currently am working with an 8 gallon kettle (and would like to avoid buying a new one), am I able to go either route with that size? I understand a boil size may be in 7.5 or higher range.... Also, I generally use a gas stove top, and though I realize it may take longer to get to my desired temps, the stovetop should be fine for either method, correct?

Thanks again

bovineblitz said:

Yeah I agree. I immediately made a mash tun from a cooler and prefer doing it that way for the most part. On some lower gravity beers I'll do BIAB but overall I find the mash tun to be more preferable.

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I started with the mashtun cooler and just because of space constraints we have the two coolers (HLT adn MLT) in the basement along with the burner and propane tanks in the garage with some other assorted small pieces upstairs. That and we live in MN so I've actually downgraded to 3 gallon BIAB batches because it is just easier to store not to mention warmer to do in the winter.

Best thing to do is find someone who brews and watch them do a batch and then decide what is best for you.

For me a rectangular and I think 5 gallon cooler works just fine for me with a modified batch sparge. Some folks will fly/batch sparge and others will BIAB. They are all good and very different from each other.

Honestly I think trial and error will serve you best in deciding what works best for you. I will say welcome to the addiction

I've done partial mash/BIAB, and can tell you that if I'd had the choice, I'd have gone all grain to start with.

Why? You do all of the work for all grain with the mash, but you also add in the hassle of extract (don't scorch it, damnit will it ever dissolve, wait till the end to keep the beer from being dark, etc).

I've now moved to a cooler mashtun, and wish I'd been able to do so sooner. But that's my opinion.

I won't try to convince you to go in any direction, but, after a few extract batches, I built a mash tun from a cylindrical gatorade cooler with SS braided hose - built it for somewhere around $40, I get great efficiency, and never once had any issue with it. I batch sparge and it is ridiculously simple. If you use brewing software and have a reliable thermometer, you're off to the races. You'll make good, all-grain beer.

wags13 said:

Question for those who are pushing for the cooler mash tun technique, or anyone who is interested in chiming in. I'd like to move to the next "step" without breaking the bank. I currently am working with an 8 gallon kettle (and would like to avoid buying a new one), am I able to go either route with that size? I understand a boil size may be in 7.5 or higher range.... Also, I generally use a gas stove top, and though I realize it may take longer to get to my desired temps, the stovetop should be fine for either method, correct?

Thanks again

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I heat my mash and sparge water on the stove top. No problem there because I'm heating a few gallons at a time. My mash tun is a 10 gallon water cooler with a stainless steel braided hose and stainless valve. I think the cost of it all was around $65-$70. The problem I see is the brew kettle. I have a 10 gallon brew pot and get pretty close to boiling over with 5.5 gallon batches. You can get away with smaller batches, but I think you may eventually want a bigger brew pot. Also, getting the full volume of wort to good rolling boil will take a long time on a stove top. I've done it, but it took a long time. Your stove may be different and may be able to handle it better than mine. I mash indoors on the stove but boil outside on a propane burner.

either way, plan on a longer brew day! I enjoy it, but i need to schedule my brewing a little more carefully w/ the wife/kids.

trumpetbeard said:

I started doing BIAB as the intermediate step to all grain and never stopped as well. It makes AG brewing in cramped apartments possible. But even if I had more space I would probably stay BIAB because it's as simple and as messless (assuming you don't drip the bag everywhere) as it gets.

+1 on getting a mill though. Even though I do a mock sparge my efficiency was AWFUL (like ~55%) for my first few batches. With BIAB you can mill finer because stuck sparges aren't an issue to boost efficiency.

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AG worked fine in my 700 sq ft apartment (with a roommate) with a 10gal round cooler too. It does take up some space but you can stack/hang stuff from walls and ceilings to save space pretty easily. It's a pain cleaning both the mash tun and the mesh bag if you ask me, and I personally hate lifting and holding the hot bag of grains for long enough to drain all the wort properly with BIAB.

BIAB is simpler and you don't have to worry about moving the liquid around which is a big plus, and the cost of entry is just the cost of a bag. Using a cooler means you have to transfer the hot water into the cooler which can be a pain without a ball valve on your pot.

I do like having the bag around in case I have some sort of mash disaster, plus I'll occasionally do a low gravity BIAB/no chill beer.

wags13 said:

Question for those who are pushing for the cooler mash tun technique, or anyone who is interested in chiming in. I'd like to move to the next "step" without breaking the bank. I currently am working with an 8 gallon kettle (and would like to avoid buying a new one), am I able to go either route with that size? I understand a boil size may be in 7.5 or higher range.... Also, I generally use a gas stove top, and though I realize it may take longer to get to my desired temps, the stovetop should be fine for either method, correct?

Thanks again

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You can do both ways with an 8gal pot, I did AG with my cooler with just that size pot for a year or so. If spending the least amount of money possible is your goal, you should try out BIAB. Otherwise, there's advantages to both methods and it's more or less a matter of preference. It's something like a few bucks for a bag vs buying a 10gal cooler plus some fittings (like this http://www.bargainfittings.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=47&product_id=85)

A gas stove will work fine with both but might have issues getting 6.5-7gal boiling properly. You should test it out with some water. I recently moved to a place with gas and couldn't get a boil so picked up one of these to add heat to the boil - http://www.amazon.com/dp/MARSHALLTO/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Works like a charm.

Also you might want to consider getting some fermcap-S to ensure you don't have a boil over, otherwise you'll have to watch the boil like a hawk and even then you might get boilovers. You can fill it almost to the brim if you use a few drops of fermcap.

It doesn't cost anything to go BIAB. Why not do that first? I did it once and have never felt the need to pay any more money. I totally get the gadget-side of the hobby, but just as a matter of preference, I don't need to get into that. I can do exactly the same tweaking to my beers that any other brewer can, and I see the cost savings as an added bonus. More beer ingredients!

I have a igloo 15 gallon ice cube. After figuing out the manifold its a great tun. And its typically cheaper than the round style of coolers.

You can build a mash tun for $30 google don Osborn cheap mash tun

Go to you local paint store and pick up a paint strainer for $5

Try out both and figure out which one you like best

Yes you should. Read up on the process, then decide. You're asking, so you're interested. Figure out if you have a couple of extra hours on a brew day and whether you want to add a bit of new equipment.

daksin said:

It doesn't cost anything to go BIAB. Why not do that first? I did it once and have never felt the need to pay any more money. I totally get the gadget-side of the hobby, but just as a matter of preference, I don't need to get into that. I can do exactly the same tweaking to my beers that any other brewer can, and I see the cost savings as an added bonus. More beer ingredients!

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+1

Agree - you could start with BIAB on the cheap. Probably not free unless you rip your voile curtains down. Don't do that

For what it's worth, BIAB is All Grain! BIAB vs traditional 3 tier set-up do have differences, but no one is by default a better system. Like others have said, it's all up to the brewer and what works in your situation and equipment.

With a small apartment, I think BIAB would fit nicely. The concept is using 1 vessel, so there is less equipment. Though with an 8 Gallon kettle, you will have to modify the BIAB method since you won't be able to fit all the required water + Grain for a 5 gallon batch. No problem, you could either use another vessel to sparge (a bucket work fine - NOT the bottling bucket), or scale down the recipe so it all fits. I've done both of these methods many times.

So to your original question, yes go all grain! Hope this helps.

daksin said:

It doesn't cost anything to go BIAB. Why not do that first? I did it once and have never felt the need to pay any more money. I totally get the gadget-side of the hobby, but just as a matter of preference, I don't need to get into that.

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There is always room for gadgets with BIAB later on too so it's not like you're pigeonholing yourself into some primitive method. Plenty of people with lifts for the grain bag, recirculating pumps, electric temp regulation, ect. It can be as easy as 1+1=2 or it can be as complicated as X times the trigonometry of y plus the radius of your kettle equals beer.

I guess what I'm saying is anything can be as simple or complicated as you want it to be and sometimes it doesn't even need to really make sense if it works for you.

There's so much great and complicated engineering on these forums (that I'm often jealous of)... but it's important to point out that it doesn't necessarily make the beer any better. You can have a really complicated great system, and you can brew very simply via BIAB and dump all the trub directly into your fermenters, and you can win blue ribbons either way. AG is AG, whether or not you use a mash tun.

As I've said, I prefer using a mash tun, but it's not any better or worse than any other way of doing it. I've brewed with friends on 3 burner systems with pumps, and I've done many a BIAB. The chemistry of brewing is the same regardless.

Thanks everyone for the input. Extremely helpful. It sounds like it may be best to start with an all grain BIAB brew or two then go from there.

Again thanks and cheers..

The only pertinent question hasn't been asked. What kind of beers do you want to make?

wags13 said:

So I have 10 or so extract only recipes under the belt. Ready for the next step. I have an 8 gallon kettle so I could easily go the biab route, I understand there are reasons to skip it and go right for an all grain with mash tun technique. I need to people to speak up and help me make up my mind!!!! BIAB or go for the gold????

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Ultimately follow your gut. I'm a firm believer in doing what feels right to you. If the traditional all-grain is what intrigues you more, then go for it. You may have some problems with a new technique at first, but if this is truly what you want to do, you will figure out what it takes to make it a smooth process for YOU. If it seems too $$$ or a bit overwhelming, then BIAB