Water report, help with ph and salts.

I pulled this water report of my Seattle city water and have a few questions:


Seattle, WA

Calcium(Ca): 17.0 ppm
Magnesium(Mg): 1.0 ppm
Sodium(Na): 4.0 ppm
Sulfate(SO4): 2.0 ppm
Bicarbonate(HCO3): 18.0 ppm
PH: 7.8 PH

Notes
Seattle. Relatively soft water with low mineral content.

My questions are:

1. I understand I need to adjust some aspects of my water to better accommodate dark beers and better utilize hops. Will I need to adjust these things with brewing salts such as gypsum as well as use a ph stabalizer like five star 5.2?
2. Is stabalizer 5.2 a cure-all for various waters to brew most beers, meaning I can ignore manipulating the soft water with salts and simply use this?
3. If I have a 5.2 ph for my mash, can I now make dark beers even though my initial water report shows soft water.

Right now, the ph of the mash versus the different minerals is a blurry concept to me. I need to know if the minerals provide the proper ph for the mash or if they are two separate aspects to the process.

five star 5.2 is a buffer for the mash pH adjustment. If you adjust your salts and minerals you do not need it. Many say use it and forget about it. This is OK for the mash but not best for the overall process. I am currently studying the water aspects of brewing and am trying to better adjust my water. [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Highly roasted black malts used to make stouts and porters add acidity to the mash so this must be dealt with.[/FONT] John Palmers chapter 15 is the best source I have found.
How to Brew - By John Palmer - Understanding the Mash pH
Pay attention to chapter 15.3 and 15.4. There is a great chart that allows you to adjust your mash pH. At the bottom of that page there are links for Excel spreadsheet for determining your needs. I prefer the charts. Beersmith also has a calculator. What it lacks is a target water profile for each type of beer. They have brewing water profile of different cities but one never knows what a brewery does to it's local water. I posted a chart with different water profiles for different beer styles in another post. I don't have it with me. try to find it. It's not rocket science but I think it's the hardest part of brewing. Since water makes up most of your beer it needs to be better understood(at least by me).
Your water is great for lighter beers. You will need to add some gypsum for darker beers, Mg and sulfates for hoppy beers etc.

jmo88 said:

I pulled this water report of my Seattle city water and have a few questions:


Seattle, WA

Calcium(Ca): 17.0 ppm
Magnesium(Mg): 1.0 ppm
Sodium(Na): 4.0 ppm
Sulfate(SO4): 2.0 ppm
Bicarbonate(HCO3): 18.0 ppm
PH: 7.8 PH

Notes
Seattle. Relatively soft water with low mineral content.

My questions are:

1. I understand I need to adjust some aspects of my water to better accommodate dark beers and better utilize hops. Will I need to adjust these things with brewing salts such as gypsum as well as use a ph stabalizer like five star 5.2?
2. Is stabalizer 5.2 a cure-all for various waters to brew most beers, meaning I can ignore manipulating the soft water with salts and simply use this?
3. If I have a 5.2 ph for my mash, can I now make dark beers even though my initial water report shows soft water.

Right now, the ph of the mash versus the different minerals is a blurry concept to me. I need to know if the minerals provide the proper ph for the mash or if they are two separate aspects to the process.

Click to expand...

The quick and dirty - calcium (and magnesium, to a lesser degree) lower the mash pH - carbonate raises the mash pH.

Use this spreadsheet from How to Brew by John Palmer to calculate the salt additions.

http://howtobrew.com/section3/Palmers_Mash_RA_ver2d.xls

I've been brewing for five years and I am still learning and trying to understand this water chemistry stuff. Don't be discouraged if it takes a while to absorb all of this. (I'm envious of your water - I have well water with very high bicarbonate levels - I have to dilute with distilled water for almost every batch.)

Here's the link with water profiles of different beer styles
Homebrewing and water quality

here's a link with a similar discussion a few of us had a few weeks back
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/water-profile-how-fix-88393/

We should continue to discuss so more will get involved.

There was a thread around here a few weeks ago titled https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/water-analysis-5-2-stabilizer-86530/

It boilded down to 5.2 only containing versions of phosphoric acid, allowing for pH adjustment only, and if you're looking for a specific water profile, you have to check on/adjust to those specific minerals. For example, if you're looking to do up an IPA, you can add the 5.2 stabilizer to get your pH on (or close), but if you're looking for a target water composition to match an IPA's water profile, you'll have to add gypsum, as ph5.2 contributes no sulfate.

Props to Coastarine for staring it all up.

Thanks for the info thus far. I've been reading the palmer online and looking at his recently updated spreadsheet. I'll check out those links as well. I guess I should be happy with my water because it is a good starting point for tweaking to other styles. The only thing I can brew well now is emulate Pilsen's beer.

So just to clarify: everyone is saying that the 5.2 buffer will stabalize my mash PH regardless of the starting water. It won't provide a workable mineral content for every beer style as some need different levels of carbonates, calcium and sulfates. I need to stabalize the PH as well as tweak the minerals, with salts, according to the style.

jmo88 said:

Thanks for the info thus far. I've been reading the palmer online and looking at his recently updated spreadsheet. I'll check out those links as well. I guess I should be happy with my water because it is a good starting point for tweaking to other styles. The only thing I can brew well now is emulate Pilsen's beer.

So just to clarify: everyone is saying that the 5.2 buffer will stabalize my mash PH regardless of the starting water. It won't provide a workable mineral content for every beer style as some need different levels of carbonates, calcium and sulfates. I need to stabalize the PH as well as tweak the minerals, with salts, according to the style.

Click to expand...

First, your water is excellent. It's far better to have Pilsen type water. The process of adding is pretty simple but it can be a PITA to remove salts already in the water.

You got it about right although you aren't stablizing the pH (small "p", big "H") the mash is going to do it by itself once you provide the appropriate conditions. Don't drive yourself crazy. It isn't necessary to match exactly the water ion numbers to style, in fact that is impossible. As long as you are within shouting distance of a style's water profile and have some calcium for conversion the beer will be just fine.

balto charlie said:

Here's the link with water profiles of different beer styles
Homebrewing and water quality

here's a link with a similar discussion a few of us had a few weeks back
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/water-profile-how-fix-88393/

We should continue to discuss so more will get involved.

Click to expand...

Some great reading there, thanks.
Now only if I can get it itno my head.