Low-gravity AG in one pot?

Be been doing partial mash for the year I've been brewing and was inspired by a visit to the Jester King brewery a couple weekends ago to try a lower-gravity sessionable beer like their Le Petit Prince. Right now the recipe I'm building is based on theirs and the grain bill is around 6#. I could theoretically do this AG in my 5gal brew pot. If I were, though, would the process be any different than my normal partial mash process? For reference here's what I'd been kicking around:

3# Pilsen
1# wheat
1# 2-row
.5# cara Munich
.5# acidulated malt

1 oz saaz @60
1 oz EKG at 10

AHB saison yeast blend or the 3711.

Was planning on a 90min mash at 155. I understand the 90min is necessary when using Pilsen as a base malt, correct me if I am wrong.

I suppose if switching to PM the best option would be to switch the wheat and 2-row for wheat DME?

thasnazzle said:

3# Pilsen
1# wheat
1# 2-row
.5# cara Munich
.5# acidulated malt

1 oz saaz @60
1 oz EKG at 10

AHB saison yeast blend or the 3711.

Was planning on a 90min mash at 155. I understand the 90min is necessary when using Pilsen as a base malt, correct me if I am wrong.

I suppose if switching to PM the best option would be to switch the wheat and 2-row for wheat DME?

Click to expand...

You only need a 60 minute mash, but with pilsen malt you need a 90 minute boil.

That makes sense... I have done a couple batches with pils and did the 90-min mash instead of boil, and they came out a little weird.

Decided to go partial mash. any thoughts?

3# belgian pils
.75# caravienne
6oz acidulated malt
.6# wheat dme
.6# light dme

90min boil
1oz saaz @ 60
.5oz EKG @ 10
.5oz EKG dry hop @ 2 weeks

wlp560 (austin saison blend)

I'm curious how this turned out. I would like to try brewing something similar to Le Petit Prince as well.

Thanks,
Eric

EBloom: nothing at all like the petit prince, which we were aiming for more as a general style guideline (complex low-gravity sessionable saison). i think the 6oz acid malt is a little much, i'd heard people recommend it as around 8% of the grain bill and i think that's a little much in this one. i'd try 3-5 oz probably. it finished pretty dry, down at .998 - AHB was out of the saison blend when we went so we used the 3711. we also decided not to dry hop, which i think was a mistake. As it is now, it's a little on the dry side, fairly tart, and a bit peppery. It's got some sourness from the acid malt too, but maybe a bit too much.

if i was shooting for something closer to the petit prince, i'd have dropped the acid malt entirely, upped the caravienne a bit, and actually done the dry hop. I think 3711 is the right strain of yeast, the owner told me they source from Theriez (same as 3711) and recommended the 3711 strain as the closest you could get to their yeast.

if i was shooting for something to my tastes in a low-gravity sessionable saison (what i wanted out of this recipe), i'd drop the acid malt to 3oz, up the caravienne a bit, actually do the dry hop, and try the wlp560.

Thanks for the reply. I've been thinking of trying this in a 1 gallon batch to see how it turns out. I think I will adapt your recipe from above and definitely dry hop.
3# Pilsen
1# wheat
1.5# 2-row
.5# cara Munich
1 oz saaz @60
1 oz EKG at 10

I have some wlp560 starter in the fridge from a batch last week to use as well.

What was the reason for adding the acid malt? I've only had the beer twice and I don't recall a particularly sour flavor.

Thanks,
Eric

That recipe looks fine, though I'd go with 3711 if you're trying to clone. The desire to try 560 and acid malt were both decisions based on what I might like in a beer and not what Petit Prince tastes like. I wasn't going for a clone, just something kind of similar. I have only had petit prince once, and that was after a few of their higher abv beers at a tour of the brewery (which I'd definitely recommend, btw).

How's the 560? I have been thinking about trying it.

I haven't actually drank a beer from the 560 yet but have batches in primary and secondary using it.

As for Jester, I haven't made it there yet. I live in central Austin and the brewery is out of the way. Rogness Brewery's opening this past weekend had some tasty beers btw and Hops & Grain is open every Friday and Saturday with multiple Greenhouse beers on tap.

I might have time this weekend to try this recipe and will post about it when done.

Thanks

thasnazzle said:

That recipe looks fine, though I'd go with 3711 if you're trying to clone. The desire to try 560 and acid malt were both decisions based on what I might like in a beer and not what Petit Prince tastes like. I wasn't going for a clone, just something kind of similar. I have only had petit prince once, and that was after a few of their higher abv beers at a tour of the brewery (which I'd definitely recommend, btw).

How's the 560? I have been thinking about trying it.

Click to expand...

I tried my first bottle tonight and I clearly should have done a 90 min boil rather than 60. Disappointing that the DMS smell/taste is so prominent. Otherwise I'm happy with it. Bad part is I have another 1 gallon batch that I'm sure will have the same problem in a fermenter. I'm not sure whether to toss it or dry hop more and see if that covers it up some.

"What was the reason for adding the acid malt? I've only had the beer twice and I don't recall a particularly sour flavor."

The brewers brewing Le Petit Prince use the malt to acidify the main mash. Some part of their process may be decoction. The sauer malz lowers the mash pH. It does good things for the yeast. It also, makes tannin extraction less of a problem. Unless you have a good pH meter it's hard to gauge what the mash pH is. Lowering pH with sauer malz takes time. That's the acid rest.....DMS is a product of wort resting after boiling.. Chill the wort down to pitching temp ASAP. Run it through a good chiller. Even with a 90 minute boil, DMS will come back. Even though a longer boil will drive off DMS, it will come back, until you get down to about 160 degrees. Boiling with the lid off helps.

I usually PM, but I just did an ordinary bitter with a 6lb grain bill. Exactly the same process...except I just don't dump any LME in at flameout. I also do normal gravity 2.5 gal batches AG as well.

VladOfTrub said:

"What was the reason for adding the acid malt? I've only had the beer twice and I don't recall a particularly sour flavor."

The brewers brewing Le Petit Prince use the malt to acidify the main mash. Some part of their process may be decoction. The sauer malz lowers the mash pH. It does good things for the yeast. It also, makes tannin extraction less of a problem. Unless you have a good pH meter it's hard to gauge what the mash pH is. Lowering pH with sauer malz takes time. That's the acid rest.....DMS is a product of wort resting after boiling.. Chill the wort down to pitching temp ASAP. Run it through a good chiller. Even with a 90 minute boil, DMS will come back. Even though a longer boil will drive off DMS, it will come back, until you get down to about 160 degrees. Boiling with the lid off helps.

Click to expand...

I chilled down the wort quickly with this batch since it was only 1 gallon. I've never ended up with this off flavor before and the only thing I could come up with was the 60 min vs 90 min boil. I will be bottling another 1 gallon batch soon that I made in the same way (before I tasted the first) so it will be interesting to see if I have the same problem.

Eric

Any updates on how these batches turned out, or any other tips for brewing low gravity beers? I'm doing a Le Petit Prince clone this weekend so any other info would of great help.