souring a bottled and finished beer.

I made a Belgian dark strong that didn't quite attenuate like I wanted it to. It's got a lot of residual sweetness, a sort of candies Apple flavor that's fairly dominating in the flavor. It dawned on me I could try and sour this beer by taking it out of the bottles(its been conditioning for a few months) and adding some dregs and bugs to try and sour it up. If I pour very gently, is this conceivable or am I just dreaming up reasons to pour my beer out?

it's not inconceivable, but does the beer taste bad? That is a whole lot of effort if the beer isn't terrible.

Its a combination of having a lot of it leftover for one guy and just sure curiosity. I guess i'm just wondering if it's even feasible to take the carbed beer out of bottles and sour it in bulk then rebottle it. i know it'd have to be done delicately but are there any real impediments besides tediousness?

I wouldn't. It'll be oxidized for sure.

It's quite feasible to de-bottle a portion of a batch back into a carboy for further fermentation. Obviously, this plan B is a bit of a hassle but sometimes it is just the thing that can redeem a mediocre beer.

The fear of oxidation is overblown. I've done this with about four different ales in the last two or three years and in all cases so far I am far happier with the re-refermented ale over the original.

Decide what you're going to do to the beer. Are you adding Brett, oak or blending with another beer? Are you adding some sugar at the same time to help reinitiate fermentation? If you don't want to funk/sour this batch, you could always pitch some WLP099 and sugar to hyper-attenuate it. I've had quite pleasing results with 099 doing the finishing work that other sacc yeasts won't do.

To make it go smoothly, be sure to refrig all the bottles you plan to drain (be sure to save a few of the original batch so you can compare them!). Fill a blanket of CO2 in the carboy. Don't worry if you don't have a CO2 source, since the beer will vent protective CO2 as you pour it gently down the wall of the angled carboy.

Happy experimenting.

I'm leaning toward oaking it with some wyeast Lambic Blend and maybe some dregs from a commercial sour. why not go all out? I'm just a little worried about how attenuated it is and how much there is for bug to munch on in it.

I've heard differing opinions on whether you can achieve a good sourness with only secondary souring vs souring from the start. i'm curious to see if this will work!

deputyandy said:

why not go all out?

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because its already in bottles...this batch is finished. Issues with your proposal aside (oxidation, etc) For the amount of work you are talking, you can brew a new batch and experiment on that one.

Just my 0.02. I also think that people spend alot of time trying to "make a silk purse out of sow's ear" when they should instead cut their losses on a batch and just move on. Again, my opinion.

Aside from opening the number of bottles i need to get one gallon to bulk age, what other obstacles would there be?

Just empty enough bottles to fill a 1 gallon jar. Add some dregs and enjoy a small amount of this beer soured.

If your beer is carbonated you can blend in a glass with a second beer to achieve what you are looking for.

I had a sweet Quad that I blended with a sour raspberry before serving. That worked out really well for me.

Good luck.

BW

Terrible advice. Sour/wild beers are NOT an after thought. You WILL get oxidation and the beer will be worse. If you want a wild beer then plan for it. 099 is not some sort of super yeast that fixes all problems, it's a yeast that is bred to ferment in high alcohol percentages. Plenty of yeasts can ferment the same sugars as 099.

funkenhop said:

It's quite feasible to de-bottle a portion of a batch back into a carboy for further fermentation. Obviously, this plan B is a bit of a hassle but sometimes it is just the thing that can redeem a mediocre beer.

The fear of oxidation is overblown. I've done this with about four different ales in the last two or three years and in all cases so far I am far happier with the re-refermented ale over the original.

Decide what you're going to do to the beer. Are you adding Brett, oak or blending with another beer? Are you adding some sugar at the same time to help reinitiate fermentation? If you don't want to funk/sour this batch, you could always pitch some WLP099 and sugar to hyper-attenuate it. I've had quite pleasing results with 099 doing the finishing work that other sacc yeasts won't do.

To make it go smoothly, be sure to refrig all the bottles you plan to drain (be sure to save a few of the original batch so you can compare them!). Fill a blanket of CO2 in the carboy. Don't worry if you don't have a CO2 source, since the beer will vent protective CO2 as you pour it gently down the wall of the angled carboy.

Happy experimenting.

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Well the damage is done. 6 750s in to two jugs and added some Rosealare Blend. I think in a few weeks i'll add the dregs and see what happens. any predictions?

to clarify, I sort of took this as a "i wonder if this will work" approach. I'm not thinking this is any sort of standard method to making a sour. This is more tinkering with beer than it is making great sours from the ground up. I'll let it sit for a few months and see what happens and be sure to post results.

deputyandy said:

Well the damage is done. 6 750s in to two jugs and added some Rosealare Blend. I think in a few weeks i'll add the dregs and see what happens. any predictions?

to clarify, I sort of took this as a "i wonder if this will work" approach. I'm not thinking this is any sort of standard method to making a sour. This is more tinkering with beer than it is making great sours from the ground up. I'll let it sit for a few months and see what happens and be sure to post results.

Click to expand...

If it was going to get dumped anyway then it's worth the shot but I'm still a firm believer in aging beers and seeing how they progress. If it's that bad now, doctoring it up won't help much.

I look forward to hearing the results.

Judging from a recent comment, fermentation can get emotional. There are plenty of established notions, right or wrong, that have their ardent defenders. It’s up to each brewer to decide if experimentation in a given area is worthwhile or simply foolish.

Take for example the idea expressed that wild/sour ales should be pre-planned creations, not after-thoughts or improvisations. This is both a philosophical and practical debate with pros and cons on each side. Philosophically, I’m equally comfortable with creating a quality wild ale that I did not originally intend to make, as I am creating one from the ground up.

Undoubtably though, creating a sour or wild ale that turns out as planned is evidence of significant brewer planning and skill and is something to be truly admired.

I think it is also pretty damn admirable when a brewer recognizes that a course correction in a particular fermentation is needed and chooses an alternative fermentation (wild or not) which remedies the issue and results in a superior beer. If nothing else, this is evidence of creativity and flexibility in a crisis (the crisis being a less-than-perfect homebrew).

As for assertions of oxidized or worse beer, claims encompassing so many processes and factors should be made from experience. In my experience at least, “after-thought” wild ales can reach a level of outstanding quality, provided that they are the product of a base beer free of significant flaws. Of course, any beer-making--especially the last-resort action of draining the beer back out of the packaging into the fermentor for another go--is risk-taking. And there are some beers that we should just leave alone. The trick and the fun is knowing when to tinker and when to just knock it back.