Extract vs. All Grain

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billk911

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I am a new brewer and am wondering if all grain is that much better than extract brewing. I know people who have done extract brewing for years and love the outcome and all grain is not worth the hassle. Some people who do all grain say that extract brewing is not even close to all grain. I am confused, please help..
 
It's not a versus issue...it's not a fight nor a competition, you can make great beer with extract, you can make great beer with AG...you can make sh!tty beer with either method.

They both make Beer...What kind, depends on your skill, your recipe, and your attention to detail.

Just as many Extract recipes has have won in competition as AG...and since in most comps there is nothing to distinguish whether or not it was an AG or Extract...they compete head to head.

Read this....

http://blogs.homebrewtalk.com/Revvy/Why_cant_we_all_get_along/

I don't agree with the soup analogy, at all, never have- creating a great extract with grains recipe, on your own, requires as much knowledege about ingredients and how they compliment each other as does doing it as an all grain....there's less steps in brewing an extract batch...but there's ALSO less steps to screw up if you are starting out.

But please don't get into an elitist us versus them mentality about allgrain and extract that some people have...it's not a versus...we're all in this brewing game together.
 
You have alot more control over the final product with AG brewing. I've personally have never tried it but hope to some day once I get my routine down. Some people jump right in to brewing and go all grain and other slow move up the difficulty levels when they feel comfortable. Extract kits will give you a pretty good beer but you are limited in how much you can "play" with the flavour with AG there are no limits.
 
Lets use a simple analogy:

Extract is like buying a can of Progresso (or your favorite canned soup brand).

All grain is like making the soup from scratch (making stock, cutting all vegetables, cooking etc).

One isn't better than the other. It just depends on how much time and effort you have to put into making the soup. Making stock from scratch takes a little bit more equipment and know how, but in the end, you have more control over the entire process.
 
Revvy is certainly on a crusade to debunk all claims of AG superiority but I'm not going to play into the debate. What I will say is that home brewing became more rewarding and enjoyable for me when I started using all grain in my process. It's a personal thing.
 
I do it because it is fun and it is my hobby. Assuming an extract brewer is using fresh extract and doing a full boil, fermentation and sanitation are much more important than AG vs extract as far as beer quality is concerned.
 
It's not a versus issue...it's not a fight

Oh, it's a fight all right! A fight with yourself to controll your spending and how much time you commit to brewing and how to utilize the space you have to brew.

You see, brewing is really an addiction. You become THE Beer Geek. You start to learn about all the different aspects of malting, Maillard reactions, starch conversions, alpha and beta hop oil utilizations...... the list is almost endless.

So, on this path to beervana, you will have many questions. Some of those you can experiment with by using extract alone. Others you will want to try steeping some grains and learning from those experiments. If time, brewing space and money allow you may want to do AG and experriment/learn through those methods.

But it's all part of the addtiction. Don't fight yourself, just LEARN!! It's a Freaking BLAST to brew!:ban:

And guess what, their right. In the end, no matter the process, you made beer and you participated in the millenia old traditions of brewing. How can that be done wrong?
 
As everyone mentioned above, you can make excellent beer with both extract and all-grain. All-grain on the other hand allows more flexibility, partly due to a wider variety of grains and having the ability to adjust the mash temperature. I can make two beers with the exact same ingredients, but mash one at 149F and the other at 154F and they will taste different. All-grain to me is a lot more fun too. I can knock out an extract brew in 2.5 hours, but all-grain will take me about 5.5 hours.
 
I also prefer AG over extract for the control it gives me over my recipe and, frankly, the quality of the product. Yes, you can brew excellent beer with extract, but you depend so much on the quality of the extract. If you get good, fresh extract, and if you do full wort boils, you cannot tell the difference between extract and AG brewing. However, those are very important "if"s. Also, if you want to start brewing your own recipes, you are limited to what you can do with the extracts you can get or blend. Blending extract sounds simple enough, and it is if you have access to excellent bulk extracts and know someone who can accurately weigh that stuff by the quarter pound.

And, don't let anyone talk you out of AG brewing by saying it costs so much to start. It does not have to. You do not have to go out and spend a bunch of money of stuff to start AG brewing. I've been brewing for 15 years, and my "system" is still two pots (5 and 10 gallons), 2 pitchers, and a 10-gallon cooler. When I went AG, I already had the 5 and 10 gallon pots (the 5 gallon from when I started and the 10 gallon from when I moved to full wort boils). All I needed was the cooler, two pitchers (for vorlaufing), and about three feet of tubing. I also splurged on a reliable probe thermometer to measure mash temperatures with the tun closed up. Every now and then, I drool over the fancy systems, and then I go brew a batch with my caveman system and enjoy it too much to change.

AG also doesn't have to take much more time, either. I hear of guys that talk about 5 or 6 hours for a single infusion batch, and I wonder what they are doing out there. For a single infusion batch, I tend to go from lighting the first fire to cleanup in about 4 hours or so, depending on how quickly my mash converts, but I rarely quit moving during a brew session. I also must admit that I get everything out and sort of ready the night before.


TL
 
OK - I'll chime in.

I feel I make pretty darn good beer using Extract but if I was single I would brew AG.

AG IS better but the difference between 3 hour brew and 5-7 hours is the deal breaker. Plus I don't have the cash OR mechanical inclination to buy/build my own system.

You hear guys say they can brew in 4 hours - but then they say they have been brewing for 15 years LOL (just having fun TexLaw).

Bottom line - AG is better - just depends how hands on you want to get, for me I am 100% happy with my results.
 
I do both... I do AG if I have the time and slip an Extract in once in awhile when I don't, both are good! I think just having the right equipment cuts the time down on either method.
 
I am a new brewer and am wondering if all grain is that much better than extract brewing. I know people who have done extract brewing for years and love the outcome and all grain is not worth the hassle. Some people who do all grain say that extract brewing is not even close to all grain. I am confused, please help..

I haven't made any all grain batches yet, and don't plan to anytime soon, but what I can tell you is that I like the process of partial mashing (the middle ground between extract and all grain) much more than doing extract with steeping grains only. It allows for more customization and more control without requiring expensive new equipment or equipment modification. It takes longer, of course, but I enjoy brewing, so that's not a downside to me. I love the beers I make with this method.

If you haven't made any batches using partial mash or all grain methods, I would suggest just giving it a try and decide for yourself which method you prefer. All you'd need is a <$10 2 gallon beverage cooler with spigot and a grain bag to make 5-gallon partial mash batches or 1-2 gallon all grain batches.
 
I started out with four extract brews before my first all grain and I am really glad I did. I would recommend doing an extract brew or two to most folks just because there is enough (for me anyways) to worry about with learning how to sanitize everything, when to put in hops, how much is it going to want to boil over, how to cool it quickly, how to get it into the carboy without making a mess and getting "baddies" in it, and etc.

I think only doing part of the process and learning it well has allowed me to pay more attention to the other parts of the all grain process and not be worrying about the future steps and feel confident that I [sort of] know what I am doing.

That said, I am really enjoying all grain. If you are the "do it yourself" type of person (and not just making beer because "it's cool"), you will really enjoy controlling each part of the process and learning how they work. However, most folks will probably be better off starting with extract...but not all.

I see many people on these forums that think you aren't really brewing if you're not doing all grain. To me, they seem to be like some of my friends that think you have to have name brand tools for every job your do even if you are going to use that tool like once every other year or your car/motorcycle sucks because it's not what I have and what I have is the best. What works for one person isn't always the best for another.

In the end, go with what you are comfortable with and enjoy.

kcstrom
 
maybe AG is a bit more like magic eh, and that maybe the charm. or the extra reward you feel personally having created it yourself from nothing...

y'know... double, double, toil and trouble...
 
... they seem to be like some of my friends that think you have to have name brand tools for every job your do even if you are going to use that tool like once every other year ...

this is so true, I have these friends lol! getting razzed for buying cheap ryobi tools instead of dewalt for 4x the cost. but I get the job done just the same, haha.
 
It seems that this topic gets started every couple of weeks, and the responses always seem to be tinged with some really self-righteous hoity-toity attitudes. It's a shame, really. I try and live by two basic rules concerning brewing and beer:

(1) Never criticize another man's brewery (this includes process)
(2) Never criticize another man's choice in beer.

I am an all-grain brewer; like Bobby, home brewing is more rewarding and enjoyable to me as an all-grain brewer. For me, it's being intimately involved in every stage in production from milling my grain through cracking that first bottle or pulling that first pint. It is somewhat intangible, but that's the beauty of it.

It is very much a personal choice, and I will not ever look down my nose at an extract or PM brewer.

Designing and engineering solutions and equipment is equally satisfying, though I'm perfectly content with my caveman rig (check out my gallery or the Barking Beagle virtual tour thread to see!). I like looking at the Sabco systems and purpose-made HERMS and RIMS systems as much as the next guy, but at the end of the day, I'm fulfilled in crafting a beer that I am proud of, regardless of my process. Don't ever forget the X factor that you as a brewer contribute to the success of a brew day and just hone your craft to a level that you are personally satisfied with. If you are lusting after AG, by all means do it. Make an informed decision and do it for the right reasons- your satisfaction. Stuff everyone else.

Jason
 
I agree with fly.

One thing nobody has talked about is the actual skill of the brewer. It's all moot if you do AG sloppy or rush a mini mash.

It's the skill of the brewer that makes good beer, not the process.
 
Lets use a simple analogy:

Extract is like buying a can of Progresso (or your favorite canned soup brand).

All grain is like making the soup from scratch (making stock, cutting all vegetables, cooking etc).

If you're going to use the soup analogy, let's try to make it fit a bit better:

Extract is like buying some broth, but chopping up your own ingredients to make the soup. The basic groundwork is already there, you just need to spice it up and make it interesting.

All grain is like making the broth yourself. You get more control over how the base of your product will taste.

I'm an extract brewer, and I plan to try AG at some point, but probably not for a while (waiting at least until the warmer months, and quite possibly until next year). I'm pretty happy with how things are going right now, I just want to explore some more.
 
I thought it was cool to try AG if only to see how the whole process works--to really understand how hot water can make a bunch of grains turn into a sweet dark liquid that can be fermented. But, it took a lot of time that I don't usually have, and I'm pretty happy with my extract beers, though I definitely want to do AGs from time to time.

Having more control over your beer isn't always a good thing--especially if you suck at chemistry like I do!

And, besides the importance of process, another big factor in final taste and quality comes from the type of yeast you use.

It's all good, as long as you're making some sort of malt-based alcoholic beverage that you like to drink!
 
I don't think there is anything more to say here really, but I started out as a PM brewer a few years ago and made about 6 batches all together with a lot of time in between them.

I always heard and saw the term all grain, but didn't really knew what it meant until I got on this board. I came back to homebrewing with a vengeance in November and made a point to go all grain. I think I initially spent about $80 to get my 10G round cooler and convert it and a 13G boil pot. Everything else I already had.

Since then, I have gone just a little crazy with buying more stuff like my yeast starter equipment, grain mill, more kegs, more fermentors etc... but that is not related to all grain, other than the grain mill.

The point is that I will never go back to PM brewing and it is not because AG brewing is better, it is just because I enjoy the process of AG brewing so much more and the satisfaction in brings.
 
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