Gluten Free AG Questions

What advice would you give for target OG and fermentation temps for a Pale Ale with Safale US-05 and millet base malt?

I have now made 3 AG gluten free batches and would benefit from input from those that have already been in this territory for a while. My experience with partial mashes was that I had to get the OG up to about 1.060 and have about ½ lb of maltodextrin to get it where I liked it. Below that and without the malto, it was just thin etc. Also had to use Belgian Candy Syrup, buckwheat honey etc. to get it where I liked it and consequently, the ABV was usually around 6 or 7%.

My AG batches had no gravity contributions beyond the malt and I don’t think anything was lacking. The last AG batch I messed up and with lower efficiency and not controlling boil off rate, I ended up with an OG of 1.049. With partial mash that would have meant thin, weak and gutless, but the AG with low OG seemed to have sufficient mouth feel, and I would not refer to it as thin weak and gutless. I now know my previous experience does not apply with AG.

Another factor is I can now control fermentation temps so I am in such new territory that I would like to get input from those that have already experimented some.

Having an OG of 1.042 - 1.05x yields a great pale ale with barley based beers using US-05. I keep that yeast at 58-62F w target of 60F until final gravity of 1.010 or so then cold crash. Super crisp well attenuated beers w great body even at 1.042 OG. Under 1.042 and my beers would start to thin out

I hope a similar correlation exists for millet malt base. I assume it does based on my one data point, but i seem to remember billl stating that a lower gravity batch of his was thin. I will have to find that thread.

I hope you don't think I know what I'm doing!

Frankly, I've messed around so much with the mash process that some have been thin and some overly sweet and it wasn't related to OG at all. From my non-GF brewing though, I can assure you that OG is only a part of the equation. The other big factor is FG. A low OG beer will almost certainly feel "thin" if it is highly attenuated. The 3 basic ways to control that are 1) yeast selection 2) mash temps 3) additions of non-fermentables or highly-fermentables.

This last one finished at 1.008, so pretty low. This was also the first ale that I was able to control fermentation temp and keep it low (65F). Everyone says that temperature control is the key to moving from "good" to "great" taste, but not sure how much of that is related to "body".

The US-05 yeast is a pretty solid yeast so I expect to keep using that. Event a lot of the barley brew threads I have read praise US-05 and they have a lot of liquid yeast options. My focus on the mash temps has been just to get the millet to convert and get a decent efficiency. Not sure what I would do there.
I definitely can use maltodextrin if needed. I did not use it on the AG batches so far just because I wanted to see the unadorned millet. So far I like what I see. I can imagine staying with a 1.050 gravity and then boosting with some maltdextrin if I think I need it.

Just when I thought I might be figuring some stuff out, I realize I am still at the beginning A beginner able to make good beer and in search of great beer is a good place to be. More experimentation just means more beer to drink!

US-O5 is a fine yeast for most american styles. There are lots of other options to experiment with though. It just depends what you are going for.

Mash temps definitely impact fermentability. 152 degrees is generally considered the mid-point for an average body beer. A few degrees lower will tend to be drier. A few degress higher will tend to be more full bodied.

Ok, I finally got a chance to brew. Brutally hot day to brew, but I survived, barely!

I did a pretty basic pale ale with OG=1.052, and moderately hopped with EK Goldings. I plan on fermenting at 62F in the beginning while the yeast is providing heat. After fermentation slows I will go to 65F up to the 3 week point. Then I plan on cold crashing for an additional week. I decided to try this because I always get a fair amount of sediment in my kegs. After a week of conditioning in the keg, the beer is crystal clear, but you have to keep the keg nice and still because there is a lot of sediment that forms as it conditions. Maybe cold crashing for an additional week before transfer to the keg will help that.

glutarded-chris said:

Ok, I finally got a chance to brew. Brutally hot day to brew, but I survived, barely!

I did a pretty basic pale ale with OG=1.052, and moderately hopped with EK Goldings. I plan on fermenting at 62F in the beginning while the yeast is providing heat. After fermentation slows I will go to 65F up to the 3 week point. Then I plan on cold crashing for an additional week. I decided to try this because I always get a fair amount of sediment in my kegs. After a week of conditioning in the keg, the beer is crystal clear, but you have to keep the keg nice and still because there is a lot of sediment that forms as it conditions. Maybe cold crashing for an additional week before transfer to the keg will help that.

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The cold crash really helps. After 2 or 3 GF brew day experiments, I can say I like a nice mellow 45F cold crash for 3-7 days. Helps with the chill haze too.

After three weeks in the conical, dumped the trub and started the 45F cold crash. Looks like it will cold crash for 2 weeks as I have to be out of town next weekend. I don't expect that will be an issue as it is just another week of conditioning. I will be force carbonating in a corny so will not depend on the yeast to help with carbonation. Anybody else have any comments on a long cold crash?

Hey Chris,
I may be wrong, but I can't imagine an extended cold crash can hurt you as long as no oxygen gets in, especially if you are force carbonating. I am sure I will be corrected if I am wrong though!

Tasted it after it carbed for a week and I think it is going to be good after it conditions a little more. I used a pound of belgian candy syrup and a half pound of maltodextrin to boost it up to 7 gallons of pitching volume. It was absolutely necessary to use maltodextrin and belgian candy syrup in my partial mash batches with sorghum syrup but I think it may be a mistake with all grain for a pale ale. I think the mouth feel is too much. With an all grain pale ale, I think the malt stands on its own and my limited experience is that an original gravity of about 1.050 is plenty. Opinions?

Another thing I would like to get feedback on. When Grouse came out with Munich and Vienna malts I bought a bunch. Their website states these malts "might be your new base malt". In a 14 pound grain bill I used about 5 to 7 pounds of pale and then 5 pounds of Vienna, Munich or a combination of both on 4 batches. The barley recipes I have seen rarely use that much but honestly, I rarely go beyond the gluten free forum so I don't really know. Anybody experimented with these malts in a gluten free pale ale and have an opinion?

Ok, this batch is officially not good. Just has a lingering bitter and slightly harsh aftertaste that does not seem to diminish with conditioning.

Could be the grain bill.
Could be that I left it on the yeast too long ( 5 weeks with the last two weeks at cold crash temp)
Could be my mash process although I did not do anything drastically different then prior batches.
Hop additions were pretty tame. So I don't think it was the hops.
Could be some of my grain was old. A few pounds were over a year old but it was all kept in an air conditioned room so I cannot imagine that was a factor.

Guess I will just have to brew another batch and see.