Gluten Free might just be getting better! A LOT BETTER!

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
So, quick question. With the mill grains getting crushed so fine, whats the easiest way to prevent stuck sparge? rice hulls?
 
I would not advocate a finer grind than barley. I believe a similar grind will work fine, its just that rice is smaller and therefore needs a tighter mill setting to achieve that grind. With whole grain rice malt there is generally more hulls per volume starch and there should not be a problem with stuck mash. The hulls stay quite intact during milling. If you are adding a bunch of other adjuncts you may want to add more rice hulls.
 
Thanks for all the info. Two questions:

How does mash thickness compare to barley?

Does Rice have a similar weight/volume to barley?

The reason I ask is that I currently do partial mashes in a 2-gal Cooler, and can mash up to about 5 pounds of barley, and am trying to figure out if my maximum rice mash is similar.
 
My experience has been that mash thickness is similar to barley, although I do not have any scientific evidence compiled yet. As far as weight to volume, I am quite sure volume will be greater with equivalent weight due to rice being a smaller grain and it's hull is a more significant proportion of the weight of the grain and lighter in weight. I obviously have a few things to check to give solid answers to this and at least one other question recently posted!
 
Ricemaltster and Jay: Thank you.

I've read this entire thread and I'm very interested in brewing the pale ale with the grain bill detailing 18#s pale rice plus adjuncts.

In the brew schedule it states the mash temp as 152F, but later on in the thread you mention that you do a decoction mash with steps that is labor intensive. You state that the cerealization temp is around 150F for this rice.

Questions: What is your mash schedule? Do you do a cereal mash?

Has anyone on the thread successfully brewed this recipe? Can you share your results and tips? thanks!
 
Ricemaltster and Jay: Thank you.

I've read this entire thread and I'm very interested in brewing the pale ale with the grain bill detailing 18#s pale rice plus adjuncts.

In the brew schedule it states the mash temp as 152F, but later on in the thread you mention that you do a decoction mash with steps that is labor intensive. You state that the cerealization temp is around 150F for this rice.

Questions: What is your mash schedule? Do you do a cereal mash?

Has anyone on the thread successfully brewed this recipe? Can you share your results and tips? thanks!

hipturn
I am sure Jim will chime in with his recipe guide to this beer.

Cheers
Jay
 
As far as I know there is only one published gelatinization temperature for the variety of rice I malt. It gives it at just over 150F. I guess I was hedging my bets when I stated 152F. This appears to hold true when I am heating the mash, although I do not have hard evidence to back this up. If you look at the info on decoction mash on this website (Homebrewtalk), my method is essentially the classic double decoction method. I do not boil during the decoction, but get a bit above the gelatinization temp. (155-160) and return to the main mash. This takes several intervals to raise the temperature the same amount as one boiled batch. I feel the boiling breaks down the starch to the point of causing problems with lautering. I also do this in order to retain as many enzymes as possible.
 
I just want to clarify a point. Do not cereal mash my malts, please. Cereal mash is for adjuncts that have not been malted and therefore do not have active enzymes. If you want to add these unmalted adjuncts, then by all means go forward with a cereal mash on those grains only. My malt is a bit limited on enzymes compared to barley and you don't want to limit it further with boiling and deactivating the existing enzymes. This would likely result in a non-converted sticky mess and a disgruntled customer.

I hope this does not come across too preachy, I just want to see you guys and gals have good luck brewing with my malt.

Cheers,
Jim
 
Jim,
These two last posts of yours have cleared up the mash process for me. When I did the decoction mash I heated to boiling. I also had problems with hitting the temperatures I was trying to get to. I think this explains my low SG of about 1.038 instead of 1.056. This is on tap now and I am planing on another batch soon.

I now have BeerSmith and been doing much better with temperature control of my mashes.

John
 
Sorry you had difficulty with that first decoction mash. I guess I was not specific enough earlier on or forgot that I had deviated away from the standard decoction mash. I am by no means an expert. If anyone comes up with a better method I am all ears. Anything to further the brewing success for Celiac's.

Good luck with future brews. Let us all know how it goes.
 
John:

Can you explain your technique as If I were 5 years old? I'm a pretty experienced all grain brewer and I am definitely not groking what is going on here. I am presuming that you are (or that you are planning on) mashing in at 150-152F. Then you are raising the mash temperature to ~160F by decocting twice (without boiling - I get that (thanks, Jay!)). Nevertheless, I don't understand - why the decoction? If the gelatinization temperature is around 150F why all this extra work? Please help me b/c I would really like to brew this beer! Thanks!
 
Hi Hipturn,

I think this question is aimed at me, so I will answer as best I can. I am a brewer that works as much from gut as cookbook. I just feel my best beers have come from doing decoction mash where several portions of the mash are heated above gelatinization temperature and returned to the main mash. This may be a way of slowly raising the temperature of the mash and allow enzyme activity throughout the mash. I don't have any hard evidence that a single infusion mash will not work, my experience has just been better with the decoction method. I don't like doing the extra work either, but I like the results. Information on rice malting and mashing for beer production is extremely limited as far as my explorations have gone. We are all exploring a rather new frontier where all of our experiences can build better gluten free beers. I personally hope, that in the near future, rice breeders will develop varieties that have larger seed and greater enzyme activity.

Let me know if this does not answer your question. And please let us know if a simpler mash is working for you.

Cheers,
Jim
 
Jim:

Yes! That's exactly what I was looking for. I very much appreciate your help.
 
So... has anyone taken the plunge and brewed with this stuff?

I just finished a brew, and am thinking about trying my hand at a small GF batch with this rice. Maybe a simple pale ale/bitter style to get my feet wet.

I can mash about 5-6 pounds of barley, so I'm thinking of just mashing the same in rice, calling it 2 gallons and seeing what I end up getting as far as fermentables.
 
Maybe Legume or Osedax can comment on this. It appears they have the most experience with my malt as far as this forum goes. I obviously can't be impartial on this point.....I think I have some fine roasted malts.

Ricemaltster
 
My experience with these malts is still limited, but I think they are very promising.
I have made 2 batches with this rice malt, in both I have used only specialty (roasted) malts, and have been using adjuncts for the base fermentables ( this excessive use of adjuncts is causing diacetyl issues, but I do not think this has anything to do with the rice malt).

I have used the biscut rice, crystal rice, and james brown rice, and am impressed with the flavors coming frm them. Complex and malty in a way that home toasted GF grains are not.

If you cant mash a huge grain bill, you might do a partial mash. Do a mini mash with 4 or 6 pounds of rice malt (dont be afraid to add enzymes to make the mash protocol easier), and use some rice syrup to bump up the gravity.

I think this is what I will do for my next experiment.
 
My experience with these malts is still limited, but I think they are very promising.
I have made 2 batches with this rice malt, in both I have used only specialty (roasted) malts, and have been using adjuncts for the base fermentables ( this excessive use of adjuncts is causing diacetyl issues, but I do not think this has anything to do with the rice malt).

I have used the biscut rice, crystal rice, and james brown rice, and am impressed with the flavors coming frm them. Complex and malty in a way that home toasted GF grains are not.

If you cant mash a huge grain bill, you might do a partial mash. Do a mini mash with 4 or 6 pounds of rice malt (dont be afraid to add enzymes to make the mash protocol easier), and use some rice syrup to bump up the gravity.

I think this is what I will do for my next experiment.

Thanks so much for chiming in. I currently mash in a 2-gal cooler, which allows me to mash about 5 gallons of barley at 1.25qt/l. Without having better data on mash thickness, or how much extra volume rice takes up, it's hard to get a handle on how much rice I can expect to be able to mash.

I don't mind experimenting, but any advice in that regard would be great.

I may just mash what I can, and throw in 1lb of rice syrup solids and maybe some maltodextrin and see what happens :).
 
I am mashing BIAB style in my 7.5 gal brewpot.
I could probably mash up to 8 ish pounds (in 5 or so gal of water) with this method. Maybe more, but not easily.

Because the gelitinization temp of this malt is high, I dump grains into 180 degree water in my brew pot (resulting in a 170 degree mash), add termamyl (thermo stable amylase), rest for an hour, drop the temperature to 140 then add AMG-300 (amylase) and mash for another hour. Then pull the bag of spent grains and start my boil. I do not have this totally dialed in yet. I have been hitting my predicted starting gravities spot on, but have been finishing higher than I would like at 1.018 or so. Its a place to start...but my protocol needs more work.
 
Does anybody here have any decent info on the Saccharide profile of extract from Malted Rice? I haven't had any luck finding anything of the sort. Is it similar to the profile from Brown rice Syrup? Do we know?
 
Leave it to fellow homebrewers to ask the hard questions. I have not had the extracts tested at this point. I guess this will move up the priority list. I have been working toward getting my beers out the door lately.

My malt products are naturally malted and therefore will probably not have exactly the same composition as the brown rice syrups that I believe are all chemically converted. I am still working on building the system to produce malted rice syrup. Hopefully, this will be available in the near future. This has taken more time to achieve than I initially estimated.
 
Somehow I just know there are evil-doers in a back room somewhere gorging themselves on that delicious gluten that has been removed from my food/beer.
 
Leave it to fellow homebrewers to ask the hard questions. I have not had the extracts tested at this point. I guess this will move up the priority list. I have been working toward getting my beers out the door lately.

My malt products are naturally malted and therefore will probably not have exactly the same composition as the brown rice syrups that I believe are all chemically converted. I am still working on building the system to produce malted rice syrup. Hopefully, this will be available in the near future. This has taken more time to achieve than I initially estimated.

Haha, you asked for it!

I've been doing a lot of research on GF beers, and it occurred to me that this info would be useful. I think it's definitely something worth prioritizing.
 
OK folks,

Here is an early malt analysis done by Gambrinus Malting of some of my malted rice. I had not produced some of my darker malts at that time. This was a very early analysis. My pale malt has come a long way since this was done, but this will give you a bit of guidance. The attached pdf is from standard congress mash. Please be aware that extract will be substantially lower than barley for several reasons. Like I have mentioned in earlier posts, seed size and hull weight contribute to less potential extract by weight of grain. In addition, rice has not been bred for malting quality and is lower in diastatic power than barley. Think of it as going back to the early days of barley brewing when barley had not been bred for malting quality! I hope this will change as interest in brewing with malted rice increases.

Cheers,
Jim
 
I just went to the norcal brewing soloutions website to order more biscut and crystal rice... and it says they are both out of stock.

I hope they are out of stock because they are selling so well.

Jaybird, will you be restocking these items in the future?
Also, do you have plans to stock brown rice syrup (not rice syrup solids)?...its good stuff.
Some good amylase (termamyl and AMG300 or similar) woukd be another great addition for the GF folks.

thank you for catering to us!
 
I just went to the norcal brewing soloutions website to order more biscut and crystal rice... and it says they are both out of stock.

I hope they are out of stock because they are selling so well.

Jaybird, will you be restocking these items in the future?
Also, do you have plans to stock brown rice syrup (not rice syrup solids)?...its good stuff.
Some good amylase (termamyl and AMG300 or similar) woukd be another great addition for the GF folks.

thank you for catering to us!


We have the Rice its just we are dealing with the milling aspect. YOu can still buy it unmilled. I have look high and low for Brown Rice syrup I can not seem to locate it. Briess stopped making it over 2 years ago. So if you find it its OLD OLD OLD. probably still good just old.

Cheers
Jay
 
Jaybird,

Your website says the unmilled rice malt is unavalable, it is not possible to check out with this in my cart.
 
So, anybody had a chance to play around with this stuff yet? I finally have the ability to mash more than a few pounds of grain so I'm seriously considering trying a small batch with this stuff.

Jay, your Gluten Free page appears to be down, and I can't seem to find any similar page on your site. Any ideas?
 
So, anybody had a chance to play around with this stuff yet? I finally have the ability to mash more than a few pounds of grain so I'm seriously considering trying a small batch with this stuff.

Jay, your Gluten Free page appears to be down, and I can't seem to find any similar page on your site. Any ideas?

It's now in with the rest of the malts. Go to "Other Grains" and then rice. However, most of it is sold out and I can't seem to order the stuff I want. Really wanted more of that Gas Hog. Made a great stout last time.
 
It's now in with the rest of the malts. Go to "Other Grains" and then rice. However, most of it is sold out and I can't seem to order the stuff I want. Really wanted more of that Gas Hog. Made a great stout last time.

Its all in stock guys. We just cannot mill it any longer. so if you add the un-milled ones to the cart it will allow you to check out.

Sorry for the trouble there.

Cheers
Jay
 
Jaybird-
Thanks for making these GF rice malts more available to folks outside of Colorado and Portlandia crowds ;-)

Have you given consideration into carrying Lundburg's rice syrup?
I prefer the rice syrup over solids in extract brewing since the syrup has more character.
They are 'just down the road' from you... Just say'n, it'd be rockin' if you did :rockin:
 
Are you able to post your stout recipe and step-by-step instructions of your process since it turned out great?

I can and I will. I will attempt to remind myself to upload it tonight when I get home. I will most likely start a new thread so that I don't derail this one.

It is a coffee sweet stout that I have been working on for years. It just took 2nd place out of 43 entries in a local competition. I am pretty proud of it. :beer:
 
Back
Top