stretching your dollar, yeast question.

Ok i use the Wyeast smack pack. Additionally I have been making starters.

I make High Gravity beers, Trippels and Dubbels so yeast washing doesnt seem to be an option or so I have been told here in subsequent threads.

My question is this. The Wyeast smack pack supposedly has 100 billion yeast cells. So can I do my starter and save 1/2 of it for a future brew?

Im wondering by doing a 24 hour or a 48 hour starter I would increase my yeast cells by double or triple? Maybe more? Then put 1/2 the yeast in a canning jar that has been sanitized in the fridge for later use. Then use the remaining to pitch on my current brew.

Anyone see any issues, try this method, or have any input on this idea I have had?

Thank you

ST

Why not just pitch the whole thing, and harvest the yeast from the cake (or even your bottles) later? Wash that yeast!

climateboy said:

Why not just pitch the whole thing, and harvest the yeast from the cake (or even your bottles) later? Wash that yeast!

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I make High Gravity beers, Trippels and Dubbels so yeast washing doesnt seem to be an option or so I have been told here in subsequent threads.

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The method you mentioned should work fine, it's a great way to save $. You should be able to split it many many times as well.

you can harvest from high-gravity beers. the yeast may be stressed, but it will be ok.

and yes, you can even save 1/2 for the starter and culture that up.

it's not too complicated...all you are doing is feeding the yeast with oxygen and sugars so they can reproduce...you can do it again and again and again until the yeast mutate or something infects your culture.

Kilgore_Trout said:

The method you mentioned should work fine, it's a great way to save $. You should be able to split it many many times as well.

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I think it was Deathbrewer or maybe someone else that said washing High Gravity brews yeast will not work well because it would impart strong off flavors in the next batch.


So you guys think that a 48 hour starter split in two would be enough yeast for my pitch?

Further, how would be the best way to store the other half in the fridge?

I do this for my yeast bank. I take my liquid yeast and make a starter, then before pitching the starter I pull 5 samples and freeze them. Then later when I want to brew with that yeast again I use one of the samples, if I'm getting close to a year old I'll pitch any other samples I have of that strain and re-do so I'm up to 5 or so again.

stormtracker said:

I think it was Deathbrewer or maybe someone else that said washing High Gravity brews yeast will not work well because it would impart strong off flavors in the next batch.

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hmm...i'm not sure about this. the last time i remember recommending against yeast washing it was because someone was pulling from the secondary instead of the primary, which will stress the yeast even further.

it is true that they will be stressed...it doesn't mean they won't work.

DeathBrewer said:

hmm...i'm not sure about this. the last time i remember recommending against yeast washing it was because someone was pulling from the secondary instead of the primary, which will stress the yeast even further.

it is true that they will be stressed...it doesn't mean they won't work.

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Hell it wouldnt be the first time I was wrong.. lol

Ok Conpewter you just freeze a small sample? In what? Thanks for any insight.

i generally pitch the smack pack into a starter, and use that starter for a normal gravity (1.055ish) beer. then i wash the yeast from that beer and get 5 jars of yeast.

then i can use all five to make starters for big beers or i can save one for another normal gravity batch and get five more jars out of it.

this way i can make 80% big beers if i want, and only buy yeast once every 5, 10, even 20 batches. i could probably go even further but to me it's worth a dollar a batch to be confident about my yeast.

i also agree that you can save yeast from big beers, but i've had mixed results. again, it's all about getting into a system with an acceptably low risk. if you're 100 percent certain of your process and your sanitation, you can reculture the same yeast indefinitely.

conpewter said:

I do this for my yeast bank. I take my liquid yeast and make a starter, then before pitching the starter I pull 5 samples and freeze them. Then later when I want to brew with that yeast again I use one of the samples, if I'm getting close to a year old I'll pitch any other samples I have of that strain and re-do so I'm up to 5 or so again.

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you can't freeze them without some kind of gel. the cell walls will freeze and the yeast will all die.

stormtracker said:

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Ok Conpewter you just freeze a small sample? In what? Thanks for any insight.

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I'm not Conpewter but... Flyguy's guide to make a frozen yeast bank

yes there is a a whole thread on yeast banking, not too hard to set up... Yep there it is right above my post....

BTW I ended up getting the glycerin at Jewel-Osco in the pharmacy department, Walgreens was no longer carrying it.

I really didn't read through this whole thread, but in answer to the original posters question...

...I just did a high grav oatmeal stout with Whitbread. After I had siphoned the beer off, I took a two tablespoon sample of the trub/cake with a sterilized spoon, and blopped it right into a prepared starter flask.

And after about 18 hours, this is the result:



It doesn't look dramatic, but it's really just starting to roll. Bubbles are pretty much constant in the airlock, and if you look carefully you can see effervescence in the wort. I'm going to pitch this into another high grav brew tomorrow or the next day. Granted, I'm not using it again, as I think two generations of high grav are enough for one starter pack -- but this yeast is still very much alive and rolling, so I know you can get at least two generations of high grav from one pack.

Good point. As long as you use a starter you probably can re-use yeast from a big beer. I think what you were told about it flavoring the next brew was in reference to putting fresh wort on that yeast cake.

ahh, that was probably it. yes...when pouring on the yeast cake, it should definitely be stepped up...starting from a small beer to larger beers.

thanks for all the replies folks. Appreciate it.

ST

if you do want to set aside yeast from the original smack pack all you need is about a drop (not half the pack) in a bottle of wort.

Thats the nice thing about yeast - they manufacture more of themselves

stormtracker said:

I think it was Deathbrewer or maybe someone else that said washing High Gravity brews yeast will not work well because it would impart strong off flavors in the next batch.


So you guys think that a 48 hour starter split in two would be enough yeast for my pitch?

Further, how would be the best way to store the other half in the fridge?

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Well pitch the highgrav beers washed yeast into other highgrav beers. Dont be putting it into very light things and you should be fine.

FreakinA said:

Well pitch the highgrav beers washed yeast into other highgrav beers. Dont be putting it into very light things and you should be fine.

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Or just make a starter from the cake and pitch it into any style you'd like.

yeah, that's not the point. the point is the yeast are stressed and mutated. you've wore them out. that's why you start with smaller beers and work your way up.

but, yeah, just wash the yeast from a small beer or split the starter. best way to go.

stormtracker said:

thanks for all the replies folks. Appreciate it.

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Oh, no. Its not over yet. I am still waiting for the smack down.
Actually this has been a great thread, I buy liguid yeast, wash them from the first batch, and store them in PET 18 oz cleaned soda bottles. (Final addition of low gravity wort from some batch last runnings). This allows me to take it out of the fridge when I start my AG batch, let it warm up and it is rocking when I'm ready to pitch.
I think I need a micro-scope and mixer plate to move up to the next level. Maybe a dozen petri-dish's, two dozen vials, arguer, an autoclave or large steam pressure cooker, etc.
Or maybe I'll just put up some cash to buy the next batch of yeast.