Clone Beer Founder's Breakfast Stout Clone

Eiffel said:

I pitched enough slurry based on my calculations. I'm more worried about how the how the carboy looks stratified between wort (top) and grains. It's confusing to me because it looks like the carboy is half full of grain/slurry and only has about a gallon of wort on top. It was not such a sludge when I transferred it.

This is the beer with the biggest grain bill for me so far and maybe I am just seeing the grain sticking to the sides. It just looks weird to me.

Hopefully when I get home today it is going along fine.

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Give it a little more time to compact the trub, cold crash really hard to help after you are totally sure fermentation is completely done, maybe even gelatin or some other post fermentation finings, and I'd pitch some new yeast for bottling just to be safe. This recipe does really well with extended bull aging as well. You may consider secondary if you don't already. RDWHAHB

christyle said:

From everything I've gathered on here, cold brewing gets a nice coffee flavor without the astringency and bitterness of "normal" hot brewing.

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This. I too cold brew the coffee in my French press but, as with most home brews, it's a matter of taste. My thought was that by hot brewing, the coffee would be too overpowering.

I just let the coffee step in the French press in my refrigerator overnight before pressing it and then racking it to my bottling bucket.

Also, fwiw regarding when to add your coffee when brewing, I have always added mine at 10 minutes of the boil and I've never had it be too astringent/bitter or had any off flavors.

MMJfan said:

This. I too cold brew the coffee in my French press but, as with most home brews, it's a matter of taste. My thought was that by hot brewing, the coffee would be too overpowering.



I just let the coffee step in the French press in my refrigerator overnight before pressing it and then racking it to my bottling bucket.



Also, fwiw regarding when to add your coffee when brewing, I have always added mine at 10 minutes of the boil and I've never had it be too astringent/bitter or had any off flavors.

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How did the cold addition work out flavor wise?
My thought was since I am only going to be around 30 IBU a little coffee bitterness would not be a bad thing!

It is bubbling away!

Just needed some extra time I guess...

Pyg said:

How did the cold addition work out flavor wise?
My thought was since I am only going to be around 30 IBU a little coffee bitterness would not be a bad thing!

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It adds a very smooth coffee flavoring to the beer. Very well balanced. The coffee is definitely there but the chocolate notes also come thru as well.

That said, I can't compare it to hot brewing the 2nd coffee addition as I haven't tried it that way. I've always cold brewed the coffee because I was leery of having the coffee overpower the beer.

Brewing this weekend with some mods...

1) Kept the original hop bill the same but bumped the nugget to 1 oz & then added another 1/2 oz of CTZ. This brought total IBU to ~ 60.

2) Split the roasted barley 50/50 with UK barley & Carafa III

3) Will hot brew 6 cups of water onto 3 oz of fresh crushed Sumatra & add @ 170 degrees as a whirlpool addition. This should keep any coffee astringency from the kettle to a minimum. I will rack into a secondary on the kona & nibs to taste. No change in the chocolate kettle additions.

4) US05 instead of 04.

Fingers crossed.


edit; oh yeah... Vienna base..

The proportion of the coffee addition has been gnawing at me for some time.

Directions for making coffee are as follows:
two tablespoons per six fluid ounces of water.
The recipe calls for 2 OZ, which I have already established is weight, not volume.
Therefore when I measured out 2 oz of coffee it came to a volume of 8 oz or 16 TBPS.
How much water should I be using to make this coffee?
I don’t want to dilute the flavor, especially if I am going to take the time to purchase a press and steep it cold

Or am I completely over thinking this???

You're overthinking it. I make mine in about 2 mugs worth of plain tap water (16-20oz?) in my french press, sitting about 24hrs on the counter. Came out fantastic. I've done the same in my other coffee additions to beers. I doubt the amount extracted is going to differ that much

christyle said:

You're overthinking it. I make mine in about 2 mugs worth of plain tap water (16-20oz?) in my french press, sitting about 24hrs on the counter. Came out fantastic. I've done the same in my other coffee additions to beers. I doubt the amount extracted is going to differ that much

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Thanks.
I can over think and get caught up in over thinking!
I am going to follow your example.

So when I started this batch Swmbo was unable to find Bittersweet Balers chocolate (last time she does my brew shopping).
So I used Unsweetened bakers chocolate & semi-sweet bakers chocolate.
This morning I found Bitter Sweet bakers chocolate in the pantry.

Is it worth throwing a little of it into my secondary? Just to off set the Semi-sweet?

is that way to much chocolate flavor?
Or should I just roll as is?

Roll with it! Try it as is now, but you can always rebrew it with tweaks next time!

Agreed. I would see how it is before you add to it. I think it will be good as is, the coffee, chocolate and roasted malts, will cover up most of the difference in the actual chocolate anyway.

I added herseys baking cocoa powder to my secondary, seemed to work well

From the initial posting the IBU's of the recipe was adjusted down from 60 to 30. Towards the end of this recipe thread it seems folks are back at the 60 IBU number. Which has proven to be the correct or best number? I am putting my recipe together and dont want a hoppy stout.

Sheldon

Different people are giving different answers, I had the same issue, and went with 60. Next time, I'll make it around 45. Just a liiiittle too much bitterness for me.

i believe it depends on how much bitterness you're getting from the coffee. if you're cold-pressing and adding in secondary, you won't be extracting as much bitterness as you might if you throw coffee into the boil.

Sheldon said:

From the initial posting the IBU's of the recipe was adjusted down from 60 to 30. Towards the end of this recipe thread it seems folks are back at the 60 IBU number. Which has proven to be the correct or best number? I am putting my recipe together and dont want a hoppy stout.

Sheldon

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It's really just a matter of personal taste. I've brewed it both ways at 30 IBU's and at 60 IBU's and I prefer it at 60 IBU's but that's just me...

Thanks for the responses folks.

I think sweetcell nailed it about the coffee contributing bitterness.

christyle said:

You're overthinking it. I make mine in about 2 mugs worth of plain tap water (16-20oz?) in my french press, sitting about 24hrs on the counter. Came out fantastic. I've done the same in my other coffee additions to beers. I doubt the amount extracted is going to differ that much

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Do you boil the water first to sanitize? Then let it cool?
Or just don't worry about contaminates coming out of the water faucet?

Pyg said:

Do you boil the water first to sanitize? Then let it cool?
Or just don't worry about contaminates coming out of the water faucet?

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I treat it the same as all my secondary additions really: I assume the beer is inhospitable enough to keep simple infections from taking hold. I use tap water from my filter and usually spray the french press with sanitizer. I keep the grounds in the freezer until ready to use.

For other beers, when I add fruit, I go from freezer basically straight into beer, no sanitizing. I only heat my priming sugar mixture enough to really get it to blend the sugar easily.

Racked and added coffee.
Starting Sg was 1.060 which I know had to be way off.
6.6 LME
2 DME
1.75 of oats

Brewers friend said I should have a SG of 1.072

My ft ended up 1.020
Used 05 ale yeast

I usually forget to stir the ferment or before taking an SG and pitching yeast.
Is it possible that the fermentables don't equal a high SG?

Seems low ABV
Any suggestions ?

Edit: got an answer from LHBS, all good!

Is the consensus yeast for this still us-04. I've been reading other threads and it seems 04 isn't really recommended for this style however those that used it in the early part of this thread didn't have anything negative to say about using it.

olotti said:

Is the consensus yeast for this still us-04. I've been reading other threads and it seems 04 isn't really recommended for this style however those that used it in the early part of this thread didn't have anything negative to say about using it.

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Cali Ale yeast

cantrell00 said:

Cali Ale yeast

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So like us-05, 001, 090 and the like. Wonder why the op suggested using 04. I get it's an English strain sort of and that's popular with stouts. I've used 002, 007 on my Russian imperial stouts with great results and my last version of this beer I used 04 and it came out fine. Just curious if others were using it

olotti said:

So like us-05, 001, 090 and the like. Wonder why the op suggested using 04. I get it's an English strain sort of and that's popular with stouts. I've used 002, 007 on my Russian imperial stouts with great results and my last version of this beer I used 04 and it came out fine. Just curious if others were using it

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I was referring back to the original BYO recipe that DD referenced in the first post.

Although, I'd imagine any high attenuating yeast would work. With all of the coffee & chocolate additions in this beer, subtleties from one yeast to the next are probably bound to get lost anyway.

https://byo.com/bock/item/1857-founder’s-brewings-breakfast-stout-clone

cantrell00 said:

I was referring back to the original BYO recipe that DD referenced in the first post.

Although, I'd imagine any high attenuating yeast would work. With all of the coffee & chocolate additions in this beer, subtleties from one yeast to the next are probably bound to get lost anyway.

https://byo.com/bock/item/1857-founder’s-brewings-breakfast-stout-clone

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Oh ok never saw that recipe. I asked because I have a batch fermenting with 04 downstairs sitting at 70deg, brewed it Tuesday. I think cuz I pitched two packs into 1.084 OG it ramped up temps so I know 04 can get a little fruity at higher temps but I figure I'm gonna add more cocoa nibs and more coffee so that should cover up any of the off flavor this may get unlike an IPA that is a bit more delicate and one would taste those esters more.

Pyg said:

Racked and added coffee.
Starting Sg was 1.060 which I know had to be way off.
6.6 LME
2 DME
1.75 of oats

Brewers friend said I should have a SG of 1.072

My ft ended up 1.020
Used 05 ale yeast

I usually forget to stir the ferment or before taking an SG and pitching yeast.
Is it possible that the fermentables don't equal a high SG?

Seems low ABV
Any suggestions ?

Edit: got an answer from LHBS, all good!

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one issue that you had is that you didn't mash the oats. oats are not converted, and contain no enzymes, so without mashing them with a base malt you only added unfermentable sugars. next time, do a mini-mash with some base grains or skip the oatmeal.

Anyone else get the weird ring around the top of the bottle?
Looks a little like coffee foam or chocolate
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1448413113.043497.jpg

2 weeks in bottle. Needs more carbing
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1448754955.210183.jpg

I wanted to be lazy so instead of cold brewing 2oz of coffee, I threw all 4oz in at flameout and left it there for 10 minutes. I didn't even think about how much stronger/more acidic it would be (I wish I would have just left it at 2oz). I tasted the wort and the coffee was very overpowering. I'm really hoping it mellows out.

Two packets of US-05 and a few hours later and it's already bubbling away. I guess I'll discover if the coffee mellows in a few months. I'm thinking a month in the primary, one in the secondary and one in the bottles.

So I asked a question earlier about yeast choices for this and I want to say be careful using US-04. I pitched two packets into 1.084 wort at 62deg fermented in the mid 60's for 3 weeks and the FG is 5 points high 1.026 which is bordering on almost to sweet. Bummer. I guess 04 just doesn't attenuate enough although I use it a lot in IPA's and other stouts, I've used 002 in my RIS although it was a huge starter and that did just fine. Next time maybe 05 probably or a starter of 002, although if I just mash lower that could help too.

olotti said:

So I asked a question earlier about yeast choices for this and I want to say DO NOT use US-04. I pitched two packets into 1.084 wort at 62deg fermented in the mid 60's for 3 weeks and the FG is 5 points high 1.026 which is bordering on almost to sweet. Bummer. I guess 04 just doesn't attenuate enough although I've used 002 in my RIS although it was a huge starter and that did just fine. Next time I'll be using 05 probably or a starter of 002.

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thanks for sharing your experience. S-04 got me down to 1.022, and it tasted great. i wouldn't make a blanket recommendation to everyone that they not use that yeast. clearly it didn't work for you, but who knows why... your wort could have been less fermentable for reasons completely unrelated to the yeast.

S-04 has worked well for many people, including the OP/author of the recipe.

sweetcell said:

thanks for sharing your experience. S-04 got me down to 1.022, and it tasted great. i wouldn't make a blanket recommendation to everyone that they not use that yeast. clearly it didn't work for you, but who knows why... your wort could have been less fermentable for reasons completely unrelated to the yeast.

S-04 has worked well for many people, including the OP/author of the recipe.

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Yeah you're right probably should not make a blanket statement like that. I use 04 a lot and really like it but for reasons unknown to me it just crapped out this time, I'm sure the answer is in the recipe somewhere.

I'm thinking about upping the ABV on this one to about 11% (and IBU's proportionately) and then aging it on bourbon oak cubes for a year. Has anyone tried this? I saw a few comments talking about it, but couldn't find if anyone actually did it or not.

I'm not trying to replicate KBS or anything (which is on tap right now at Founders with zero marketing), but I just want a relatively high ABV imperial stout that I can age on bourbon cubes for a year or so for the holidays every year and thought this one looked pretty tasty.

^been wanting to do the exact same thing. I wonder if anyone has tried it

I think it would hold up pretty well. I might look at dropping specialty grains and would definitely drop the mash temp so it would be more fermentable.

Any thoughts on how much coffee would be needed to replace both additions with cold brewed coffee? I usually use a Toddy cold brew system--I think it's a pound of beans steeped overnight in 48 oz of cold water.

To taste. I'd go over if you plan on aging at all.

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1449444600.329383.jpg
3 weeks in bottle, stored in 66-64 degree basement and still not carbed to the level I want.
I wonder if I need more time , I know I used plenty of sugar. Used .75 oz per gallon (if memory serves correctly)

Taste is spectacular, chocolate, coffee.....