Alpha Beta ohh ahh!

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billdog

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But seriously..........

I am relatively new to all grain and I am seeing some mash steps that raise this question. The NB all grains directions want a Beta rest followed by an Alpha rest. With my current equiptment I cannot do it in this manner. I can however start at the higher temp for Alpha then step down to a cooler temp (via cold pak) to reach my Beta. Then I batch sparge.

Can anyone tell me the ill affectes or con's to mashing in such a manner???


Thanks,
Billdog

:mug:
 
Going higher to lower doesn't work.... enzymes are incredibly hard to put back together after they've been degraded (i.e. due to higher temps)

Why can't you bump up the temperature by 10 degrees using hot water?



EDIT: Also, love the title.
 
Yeah, adding some boiling water is going to be the easiest way to bump it up. If you start at a water:grain ratio a little below your target and wind up a little above your target after the addition, it shouldn't affect too much.

That being said, especially since you're first starting out, I'd just plan on doing a single infusion mash. There's enough else going on with the switch to all-grain that simplifying things a little can make life so much easier. Plenty of people on here (me included) get by just fine with a simple infusion for a great majority of our beers. What you want to aim for is a temp that hits between the alpha and beta ranges, then alter that slightly to influence the fermentability. For instance, most of my beers I plan to hit 152, right about in the sweet spot between alpha and beta. If I'm doing a big IIPA and want to make sure I'm a little more fermentable, I might drop that down to 148. On the other hand, if I want something with a little more maltiness left over, maybe I bump it up to 156. Once you get to playing around with your system, you can achieve the exact same results as a double step with a single infusion. Rather than altering the time each enzyme spends working at optimal activity, you'll be altering the activity and keeping the time constant.
 
So what your saying it that I should NOT go form 156f then step down to 152f?? the temp range for amalase is 140-160 isn't it? I have heard the adding boiling water thing too, that's pretty easy fix.
 
So what your saying it that I should NOT go form 156f then step down to 152f?? the temp range for amalase is 140-160 isn't it? I have heard the adding boiling water thing too, that's pretty easy fix.

Yes that is what we are saying. If you can't use boiling water to increase, then your better off to just mash at a consistant temp in the middle of the range. And actually for your first grain, unless your using a strange grain bill you will probalby be better off doing that anyway, just to get the basics down.

Most malt is modified enough to not need step mashes these days.
 
So what your saying it that I should NOT go form 156f then step down to 152f?? the temp range for amalase is 140-160 isn't it? I have heard the adding boiling water thing too, that's pretty easy fix.

Sure, the overall range of amylase activity is in the 140-160 range, but the different amylases are most active, and also denature, at different points. Beta amylase works best in the 140-150 (actually, can go lower than that as well) range. Alpha amylase works best in the 154-160 range. But if you do your first rest in the 154-160 range, you're denaturing your beta amylase that whole time. Meaning if you drop the temp after a high rest, you have very little beta left to do anything, and you've also dropped the alpha below its optimal range. So dropping your temp really is a lose-lose proposition. :p
 
I am not sure you are going to get anything meaningful be stepping between 152 and 156 anyway, that you couldn't do with a single infusion mash.

The temp range for beta amylase is something like 130-150, and alpha amylase 140-160. However there is still some activity at temperatures outside those ranges. It's not like an on/off switch; more like a dimmer.
 
If you really can't bump your temp (can't see how that's possible, to be honest) and you want attenuable wort, try mashing between 145 and 150F. Otherwise, mash at a higher temp and live with the enhanced body/higher FG.
 
I've already done 2 already. An american pale and most recently a dry stout. Both of which I used maris otter as the base grain. Both single infusion 152 and 153 respectively. The pale had an efficiency (according to beersmith2) of 78% the stout 69%.

Thanks for all the info and feedback! Much appreciated!
 
Just single infuse and run with it. If you get a fired mash tun in the future then you can play with step mashing, but this early on it is a fairly moot point. Get your system hammered out so your efficiency is fairly consistent first.
 

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