Blackberry Melomel fermenting away

Hey folks, had a couple questions on my blackberry melomel...

Put this thing together Saturday and it's happily fermenting away:

12 lbs wildflower honey
49 oz can of Oregon Blackberry puree (added to primary, I know some frown on this, but hear me out)
4 gal water
k1-v1116 yeast rehydrated and I used a little beer yeast nutrient as well

I have a 96 oz can of Vintner's Harvest blackberries I plan to add to the secondary when I rack over.

The OG on this batch according to my refractometer was around 1.087 and my target FG is somewhere in the 0.995-1.000 range.

Did I end up too low on the OG here for a full-bodied mead? I am aiming for something dry and accentuating the blackberry complexity.

Also, any suggestions on nutrient additions or other suggestions on how to achieve a better finished product given my starting point?

Thanks!

i think your OG is a little low. whats your batch size? did you adjust for temp? i did a plane traditional mead with 12 lbs of wildflower honey and its OG was 1.09-ish.

TipsyDragon said:

i think your OG is a little low. whats your batch size? did you adjust for temp? i did a plane traditional mead with 12 lbs of wildflower honey and its OG was 1.09-ish.

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When I add my blackberry to the secondary I should get a roughly .005 kick to the OG. 5 Gal batch size.

Adjust for temp with respect to what?


I have considered adding a pound or 2 of additional honey but can I do this after fermentation has started? (I guess I see no reason why no, just curious).

Randar said:

Adjust for temp with respect to what?

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wow. your hydrometer is calibrated for a specific temp (it should say right on the hydrometer). if your brew is warmer you will get a false low reading. if your brew is colder you will get a false high reading. there are plenty of charts and tools on the internet to help you with this.


adding extra honey is perfectly OK. just pasteurize it first. fermentation will kick up again.

Randar said:

...Adjust for temp with respect to what?

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I believe the question was related to your hydrometer reading(s). Most are calibrated to 68°F while others are at 60°F. When the sample temperature is not at the hydrometer's reference, then a correction is applied to the direct reading...

TipsyDragon said:

... just pasteurize it first.

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Not necessary...

TipsyDragon said:

wow.

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Jeez, thanks for the snarky remark. I understand the chemistry of a hydrometer and I in fact use an ATC refractometer... so temp don't mean a damn thing to me except for yeast pitching temp and fermentation temp.

I think I made an error in the amount of water I added to the batch causing it to be a little "thin". I added a full 4 gallons of water on top of the 1 gal (12 lbs) of honey. Then I added 49 oz puree and later will add 96 oz of blackberries.

So it looks like I really have a roughly a 6 1/8th gallon batch according to all these volumes.

Is that usually how batch volume is calculated? I guess I should have realized I needed to add the volume of the fruit additions, duh!

Yes, the batch volume needs to include all volumes of all ingredients added - honey, water, cider, fruit puree, etc.

Also realize that your intended 96 oz blackberry addition to the secondary will lower both the overall must SG and ABV (via dilution)...

hightest said:

Yes, the batch volume needs to include all volumes of all ingredients added - honey, water, cider, fruit puree, etc.

Also realize that your intended 96 oz blackberry addition to the secondary will lower both the overall must SG and ABV (via dilution)...

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Really? When I use the fruit tab in your spreadsheet it says it will add SG points. What am I missing?

you need to temp adjust a refractometer reading too. the density of a liquid will affect how much light is refracted as it passes through it and temp will affect the liquids density.

TipsyDragon said:

you need to temp adjust a refractometer reading too. the density of a liquid will affect how much light is refracted as it passes through it and temp will affect the liquids density.

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ATC = Automatic Temperature Compensation (between 50-86 deg F).

I don't know why you are persisting with this line. I'm just looking for help on the recipe. As a veteran homebrewer I can assure you my techniques are sound.

Nothing... Moreover you're paying attention - I was hoping someone was.

The effect on SG is a combination of two factors (volume and the additive's SG) and follows the equation: CmVm +CaVa = CtVt, where C is concentration (SG), V is volume, m is must, a is additive, and t is total.

The formula shows that adding more volume to the must dilutes it, but the addition of a higher gravity liquid counteracts that effect making the final must SG higher - as you properly observed.

My previous statement was incomplete (and wrong) as written. It should have said, " your intended 96 oz blackberry addition to the secondary will raise the overall must SG and lower the ABV (via dilution)...

hightest said:

My previous statement was incomplete (and wrong) as written. It should have said, " your intended 96 oz blackberry addition to the secondary will raise the overall must SG and lower the ABV (via dilution)...

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Oh man, I was right there with you until you said raising the must SG was going to lower the ABV.

Since I am adding everything during active fermentation (in primary) or while there is still enough activity to ferment the sugars in the fruit addition in the secondary, isn't it a valid rough approximation that it's roughly the same as adding the fruit all in the beginning?

Maybe what I am missing is that in the fruit tab on your spreadsheet you have a "beer volume" field that allows me to set the volume. Now, is this before or after fruit additions or do I have to adjust the "must SG" tab to account for the new higher volume?

Otherwise I don't understand how adding pts to the SG results in lower final ABV.

Randar said:

Oh man, I was right there with you until ... Otherwise I don't understand how adding pts to the SG results in lower final ABV.

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Generally by the time you add more fermetables the yeast does not have the capability to completely ferment them, and what I've encountered is a net decrease in the overall ABV where the dilution (by the new volume addition) is more than the additional fermentation achieved by the incremental increase in must SG.

Perhaps there may be some situation where this is not the case, but I have yet to see it happen. A lot depends on the specifics of the recipe and the additions. The point is that one can not ignore the dilution effect that ocurrs when making post primary additions. Some may have negliible effects, whereas others do not.

Make sense?

hightest said:

Generally by the time you add more fermetables the yeast does not have the capability to completely ferment them, and what I've encountered is a net decrease in the overall ABV where the dilution (by the new volume addition) is more than the additional fermentation achieved by the incremental increase in must SG.

Perhaps there may be some situation where this is not the case, but I have yet to see it happen. A lot depends on the specifics of the recipe and the additions. The point is that one can not ignore the dilution effect that ocurrs when making post primary additions. Some may have negliible effects, whereas others do not.

Make sense?

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Ahhh, that was what I was wondering about... the fermentability of the additional fruit. Thanks for the detailed breakdown.

Looks like I will be adding a couple pounds of honey when I get home.

Any suggestion on a target OG for a dry blackberry melomel like this?

Randar said:

...Any suggestion on a target OG for a dry blackberry melomel like this?

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That's really a matter of personal taste. I tend to like mels on the sweeter side (1.010-1.015).

hightest said:

That's really a matter of personal taste. I tend to like mels on the sweeter side (1.010-1.015).

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I tend to prefer the dry tannin-heavy red wines, that's why I decided to try for a dry (although I could always back-sweeten if it was too much).

My question was about the Original gravity, though. Since I ended up at about 1.087 or so and this was deemed a bit low, I am looking for suggestions on a good range for the starting point... like 1.095-1.100? Other?

TIA

Randar said:

...I am looking for suggestions on a good range for the starting point... like 1.095-1.100? Other?

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Personally, my meads have OGs above 1.105.

Well, I added 3 lbs of clover honey and all in all, I think this is going to be a bigger batch than I intended, but it should be roughly 1.100. I think that's about all I'll mess with for now.

For what it's worth I have a similar blackberry melomel that was also 1.087 OG, and it finished out around .096 or just under 14% ABV, which is what I was going for with a nice, dry finish. I appreciate that people like the high gravity stuff, but I am quite happy with my mead.

Randar said:

Well, I added 3 lbs of clover honey and all in all, I think this is going to be a bigger batch than I intended, but it should be roughly 1.100. I think that's about all I'll mess with for now.

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I'm still not sure why you messed with it at all! Being your first batch, you should have just let it go. I can assure you it would have been excellent.

Additionally, for the nutrient issue that you raised in your first post, the fruit additions should more than compensate for the nutrients and you shouldn't have to add any additional to your mead.

danielwhitted said:

I'm still not sure why you messed with it at all! Being your first batch, you should have just let it go. I can assure you it would have been excellent.

Additionally, for the nutrient issue that you raised in your first post, the fruit additions should more than compensate for the nutrients and you shouldn't have to add any additional to your mead.

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Well, I like messin' with stuff! Why else do you guys brew things? I like the gadgets myself.

Besides, I did miscalculate my targets by not accounting for the fruit volume. Anyhow, we shall see. I was easily pressured into it. Hopefully it doesn't turn out 18% or something crazy!

And using the spreadsheet I am thinking I will still only be in the 14-15% range even when finished dry all things considered.

hightest said:

Personally, my meads have OGs above 1.105.

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Thanks again for your help.

BTW, I think it would be very useful to have a %sugar -> SG calculator in Spreadsheet that simply calculates the SG of the fruit base on its own. You have all the variables already, but there does not seem to be a simple way to feed this info back into the original "honey" tab for calculating OG and whatnot.

Cheers (in 12 months)!