Getting away from kits too early?

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WAGNER BREWING

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I really dont like the instructions on the kits. The BB Irish Stout was my first homebrew, so I can understand why they would just tell me to put the wort in the primary and then bottle and age after 1 week of fermenting, even though its not the best way. I have done a lot of reading and research and I just dont enjoy the simplicity. So yesterday I found an extract recipe out of Brewmasters Bible, an American Bock recipe. I went to my local homebrew shop and they hooked me up with all the ingredients and Im going to give it a shot tonight. Ill post the recipe and let you know how it went. Am I being a little to premature by getting away from kits so fast? And why is it so much more expensive to buy malt extract separately than in a kit. I paid $11.50 for one 3.3lb can of malt extract!!! :drunk:
 
No, there's no reason not to use recipes if you're comfortable with the process. Just keep in mind that just because the directions in the kit tell you to bottle after one week in primary there's no reason you can't still use a secondary and the 1-2-3 timetable.
 
Oh I fully understand the I can always go above and beyond what the kit instructions say, and thats why I am getting away from the kits and I am going to try to understand more fully by getting into brewing methods that make great beer, not mediocre beer.

Here is the recipe that I am going to brew:

1/2 # crystal malt
1/4 # black malt
1/4 # Munich malt
7 # amber malt extract
1 # dark dry malt extract
1 1/2 oz Hallertauer hops (60min boil)
1/2 oz Hallertauer hops (end of boil) aromatic
1 tsp Irish moss
German dry lager yeast

OG 1.062
FG 1.018

Potential Alcohol: 5.9 %

How does this sound?
 
arent you following someone's directions either way? if its not whoever put the kit together, then its whoever wrote that recipe...? the only difference is your ingredients arent pre-packed together when you get them.

im all for (omg i cant believe im going ot use this phrase)...going "outside the box"
 
WAGNER BREWING said:
I really dont like the instructions on the kits. The BB Irish Stout was my first homebrew, so I can understand why they would just tell me to put the wort in the primary and then bottle and age after 1 week of fermenting, even though its not the best way. I have done a lot of reading and research and I just dont enjoy the simplicity. So yesterday I found an extract recipe out of Brewmasters Bible, an American Bock recipe. I went to my local homebrew shop and they hooked me up with all the ingredients and Im going to give it a shot tonight. Ill post the recipe and let you know how it went. Am I being a little to premature by getting away from kits so fast? And why is it so much more expensive to buy malt extract separately than in a kit. I paid $11.50 for one 3.3lb can of malt extract!!! :drunk:


Canned extract is expensive and from the looks of your recipe you are using more than most kits do.
 
Your problem isn't kits, it's bad kits. Poor instructions, limited selection, sugar-boosts, outdated yeast & hops are all typical of beer-in-a-can kits. Someone posted the one page instructions for their BIAC that featured a gnome with a witch's pot!

Take a look at austinhomebrew for what a kit should be. They put them together the same way a good LHBS would, just more selections & options.

Paying more for a can of extract than it would cost in a kit is nothing more than basic economics. Parts are expensive, unless you know where to shop.
 
Yeah, some kits do suck. However, I have a different approach on that subject. I think that kits are great for the simple reason that what all you need is there and you can concentrate on your tecnique rather than your ingredients. This is exceptionally true for those of us that are really virgins in this new and exciting hobby. I've done a little of both. I've read just about everything on brewing that I can get my hands on and have adopted my kits to expand on what I've learned. Like steeping grains and the amount of time they need to be exposed to certain temperatures. Also, have started using late extract additions with LME's. They don't need to boil for a whole hour and you also lose some bittering hop efficiencies. The kits really give you a good idea as to what the beer taste like with certain hops, their relationship to IBU's, and what kind of yeast are better suitable for said style. Also understand this, the instructions are written to leave a large margin of error. They don't want their customers complaining how bad the beer is based on instructions. If you read between the lines, there is plenty of room to "tweak" the instructions. I have recognized that there are basically three types of brewers on this forum: those that strive for excellence are usually AG brewers, those that are comfortable with extracts but will experiment with different recipes and styles and those that find what they like and only brew those types. Most of us are in the middle while only a few are in the latter.
 
I'm about to brew my first batch from a recipe I found rather than with a mailorder kit. I'm expecting about the same results, but I really don't think I need a printed checklist as I go anymore. I went down to the LBS and bought 6lbs DME, 1lb crystal 60l, 4oz of hops, a packet of yeast, and a grain bag. Same thing as a good kit from AHS or Morebeer.. I just picked out the piece parts.
 
Midwest Brewing Supplies sells Breiss LME for 8.50 for a 3.3 pound or 13.50 for 6lb which is a lot cheaper than buying coopers LME or something like that.
 
I think the Brewers Best kits are a bad idea. Let's face it: most brewers don't use kits, so those kits can sit on the shelves for MONTHS or YEARS. That means your yeast and hops are just getting funky.

"I THINK I GOT A DUSTY BEER KIT."
 
All the BB kits I got have "born on" dates and have been well within the specified parameters. If you got website or a LHBS that sells you out of date stuff, then you need to jettison them ASAP. Of all the other brethren that have used BB kits on this website, I have yet to hear of one complaining that the brew was awful. Face it, without kits, a lot of us wouldn't be brewing. It's either convienent, don't have access to a LHBS within reasonable mileage and/or we just don't have the time to spend. I'd be almost willing to bet that dang near 90% of everyone on this board has used a kit at some point in their brewing careers.
 
My LHBS only stocks a couple of brands of kits and one of them is Brewers Best. Couple that with the fact that it's the only store in Oklahoma City and you end up with some pretty fresh BB kits.

Three quarters of the beers I make are recipes, but I still find that BB kits work pretty good for me. their California Pale Ale is a "house" beer for me. Their's almost always a keg or carboy full of it. I kick it up with an extra ounce of hops and usually liquid yeast and it makes a fine beer.

The other thing is that when I make a recipe beer I always end up spending $40-$45 and I can get out with a BB kit for $30 or less. Unless I need to buy more liquid yeast, which is rare with yeast harvesting and splitting starters.
 
Wheat King said:
arent you following someone's directions either way? if its not whoever put the kit together, then its whoever wrote that recipe...? the only difference is your ingredients arent pre-packed together when you get them.

im all for (omg i cant believe im going ot use this phrase)...going "outside the box"


Im looking to make great quality beer, w/o stepping up to AG just yet. I feel that getting away from kits (for the most part) and getting into recipes and then tweaking those to what suits me. Can anyone give me some good suggestions on good books that will help me learn how to make my own recipes? Thanks a lot guys for all of your input!


JON
 
That's about the same prices as at my LHBS, but it's about 50 miles North of me, don't get to get there that often.
 
I did 2 Brewer's Best kits then went to using other people's recipes. I've made several from Papazian's The Complete Joy of Homebrewing and several from Clone Brews and Beer Captured. The Brewer's Best kits that I've used made good beer with quality (I think) ingredients, such as Muntons, Breiss, etc. I just found that I have so much fun going to the store with my shopping list for a recipe and picking out all the ingredients. The books I listed above have pretty detailed instructions on when to add what as well as hop substitutions, so with my grocery bag of ingredients and book in hand, I kinda have my own "kit".

I'm no expert but I am starting my 10th batch this weekend.
:mug:
 
Engelramm said:
I did 2 Brewer's Best kits then went to using other people's recipes. I've made several from Papazian's The Complete Joy of Homebrewing and several from Clone Brews and Beer Captured. The Brewer's Best kits that I've used made good beer with quality (I think) ingredients, such as Muntons, Breiss, etc. I just found that I have so much fun going to the store with my shopping list for a recipe and picking out all the ingredients. The books I listed above have pretty detailed instructions on when to add what as well as hop substitutions, so with my grocery bag of ingredients and book in hand, I kinda have my own "kit".

I'm no expert but I am starting my 10th batch this weekend.
:mug:


I am with you fully...you pretty much hit it on the button. And again, with doing that, I want to learn how to tweak those recipes, so that they become more personal and unique. But dont get me wrong, I know that most of that knowledge comes with experience. ;)
 
WAGNER BREWING said:
I am with you fully...you pretty much hit it on the button. And again, with doing that, I want to learn how to tweak those recipes, so that they become more personal and unique. But dont get me wrong, I know that most of that knowledge comes with experience. ;)
You might want to look at Designing Great Beers by Ray Daniels. I haven't bought that one yet, but thumbing through it, it looks to have a lot of ideas on, well, designing great beer. :D
 
Yeah, some kits do suck. However, I have a different approach on that subject. I think that kits are great for the simple reason that what all you need is there and you can concentrate on your tecnique rather than your ingredients. This is exceptionally true for those of us that are really virgins in this new and exciting hobby.

Canned kit may suck but those from my LHBS are made up fresh when you order. They have a tremendous turnover and you will never have a problem with stale ingredients or out-of-date yeast. This is probably true of most of the big HBSes that make up their own kits to order.

Austin Homebrew has hundreds of recipes to choose from on their web site from clones to original Austin Homebrew recipes. All are made up when you place the order. :rockin:
 
OK, my biggest beef is that they don't tell you if your recipe calls for grains or not. If they do, they don't state if they come with a grain sack or not. At least with BB kits, I get it all. I know...."Hey Scott, why don't you just CALL THEM and ask?" Tooooo lazy I guess.
 
Ol' Grog said:
OK, my biggest beef is that they don't tell you if your recipe calls for grains or not. If they do, they don't state if they come with a grain sack or not. At least with BB kits, I get it all. I know...."Hey Scott, why don't you just CALL THEM and ask?" Tooooo lazy I guess.

Do you mean Austin Homebrew? The extract kits I've bought from them did have grains, and they were already sewn up in their own grain bag. Their kits really are great.
 
I don't think it's ever too early to get a way from kits and flex the creative muscle. I really like creating somewhat original recipes (or shamelessly stealing ideas/recipes from anyone and everyone and modifying them to suit me). I find that I'm learning a lot more about brewing by getting my hands on every part of the process, from recipe formulation all the way to serving. I'm not knocking kit brewers at all, I just happen to prefer doing my own thing. As a way of "easing into things," you could always use a kit as a starting point for creating your own unique brew.
 
david_42 said:
Your problem isn't kits, it's bad kits. Poor instructions, limited selection, sugar-boosts, outdated yeast & hops are all typical of beer-in-a-can kits. Someone posted the one page instructions for their BIAC that featured a gnome with a witch's pot!

Take a look at austinhomebrew for what a kit should be. They put them together the same way a good LHBS would, just more selections & options.

Paying more for a can of extract than it would cost in a kit is nothing more than basic economics. Parts are expensive, unless you know where to shop.


Austin Homebrew Rules:rockin: :rockin: :tank:
 
The other day I bought a kit from Austin, a Killians clone, just to see how good they are. Im getting it in today. If I buy separate ingredients from them, are they just as fresh? Is it cheaper to get malt extract in bulk?
 
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