Somebody slap me.

In the spirit of go big or stay home I tried another epic mead, the first in many years due to time limitations, but I get inspired here.

On 200811122 I started up a OG batch coming in at around 1.123, added nutrients, and a handful of blended raisins and pitched some Pasteur Champagne.

So three days later I gently rocked the bucket and got a very satisfying stream of bubbles. OK so far.
Today, three days later I decide to do a little feeding and caring. Sanitized, took out a sample and it clocked in at 1.100, heated up to a boil, threw in the 1 tsp nutrient and 1 tsp energizer. Cooled, pitched back in.

Thought everything was great until my sub-consensus started messing with me, I went back and realized that what I thought was energizer, was really Potassium Sorbate, DAM....


So, I'm just going to chill for the next week, take a measurement and see if I just really screwed up. I am hoping that because the input was only 1 tsp the yeast will not be killed off.

My question for the esteemed mead makers here, what steps should I take if it does stall?

It won't stall. Slow a little maybe-but it won't stall. It'll be ok. RDWHAHB.

summersolstice said:

RDWHAHB.

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Coming from a grand master.
Thank you.
I tend not to panic, but I also usually do not make bonehead mistakes like this. (I need new glasses to be able to read the super-small print on these products).

An interesting dilemma. A little rough math suggests that you added enough sorbate to attain a concentration of ~175ppm (assuming a 5 gallon batch). BTW, the suggested sorbate addition rate ranges 150-200 ppm.

The good news is you have two factors in your favor - you added no KMETA, and the yeast population would appear to be more viable than if you added the sorbate days later.

The bad news is that I would expect the sorbate to adversely affect the existing population such that the fermentation rate slows (I doubt it will stop).

I see two options available at present. One, do nothing and use the mistake as an experiment to see just how the added sorbate affects the fermentation. Or, you can prepare a 1L starter to help offset the effect of the sorbate.

hightest - Thank you also.
I think a good starter using the same yeast will be the answer if the yeast do not pick back up after a week, or do you think I should wait longer?
Another "wild idea" would be to move to open fermentation with paper towels held down by rubber bands and stir to mix things up to give the yeast the upper hand.
Now I need to stop checking back for tonight and RDWHAHB, and another, etc.

Kauai_Kahuna said:

hightest - Thank you also.
I think a good starter using the same yeast will be the answer if the yeast do not pick back up after a week, or do you think I should wait longer?

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You're welcome. A week sounds fine, and you might consider adding the missing DAP now - assuming it wasn't added after you discovered the "Oops".

For the starter, I'd make it with the same yeast (10-15g, rehydrated w/ Go-Ferm) in a 1.080-1.090 honey must about 3-4 days before you intend to add it.

FWIW, when I add nurtrients I never treat the must (or water) that I use in any way. I do observe normal sanitary precautions.

I stirred the must twice yesterday raised the temp up to 70F, and was still getting a few bubbles here and there, today I took a sample and it is down to 1.076, so roughly a 25 point drop in one day. I added my last nutrient addition, gently stirred to degass and put it in the fridge reset for 66F.
Looks like I dodged the bullet on that one, and yet another lesson learned. Thanks all for you help.

Perhaps I should have explained my comments a bit more. A couple of years ago I had a melomel that was nearly finished fermenting - about 1.005 or so. I was in a hurry and actively attempted to stop the fermentation and backsweeten. I added Kmeta and sorbate in the proper amounts and backsweetned and the fermentation did not stop but instead chugged along at a very slow pace for another 2-3 months before finally fermenting dry. I thought I'd ruined it but it turned out ok in the end. Lesson learned. Don't try to stop an active fermentation with sorbate and K-meta. I doesn't work.

summersolstice - I was thinking along the same lines, I just did not want the primary to be in an ale pale in my fridge for quite a few months, takes up too much space and messes with my beer making. I was really surprised by the dramatic decrease in SG in 24+ hours, I had gotten too busy to do the proper feeding and caring. It just goes to show how resilient yeast are.
I think once it gets down to around 1.020 to 1.010 I'll be moving it to a 5 gal carboy (secondary primary).
Yes I will gently stir to get a good amount of yeast suspended, etc.
Now just to figure out if I want to lightly spice this and with what.

I am tempted to change the title to - IS my mead ruined?

OK, I'm starting to get a little fixated here, and its a mead and not a hot woman, this is just sooo wrong in so many ways.

The only time the SG moves is if I de-gas, and do some feeding and caring, but I have just reached the mid point that I understand is the max time to quit messing with it.
From my log.
OG: 1.123
20081128 SG: 1.080, added 1 teaspoon nutrient, gently stirred to degas. Dropped temp to 66F.
20081206 SG: 1.080, Still the same added DAP, nutrient, stirred. Big mistake on lowering temp. Time to pay attention, and stop messing around.
20081207 Morning, Stirred again 72F, getting 1 bubble every 3 seconds. Took out of fridge.
20081207 Afternoon, 74F Stirred, SG: 1.060, Added DAP, nutrient, 2 cups water.
Midway point, no more additions. The yeast stands alone. 1.123 - 1.060 * 131 = 8.253 ABV.

So, is it truly time to let the yeast do their thing and stop trying to be the big brother and help them along?

Five hours later I am still getting active fermentation, around 1 bubble every 3 seconds or less, but the SG does not move unless I do an intervention.

I am happy I have gotten to the half mark in two weeks, and I know I could have done better with proper feeding and caring on the right schedule, but I blame it on too much homebrew and mental exhaustion.

I'm generally looking at the over process, should I go back to doing stepped up additions of honey if my target is over 12%? If only because I really do not have the time to do proper feeding and caring every 3-6 hours in making a batch.

Once again thanks to the mead makers for teaching me to make Thor's lighting and Athena's tears. (My two "stolen" brand names).

Your mead began life with a very long uphill battle: high starting gravity, a cold shock in the fridge and shocking the system with sorbate. This mead's been challenged from the beginning so it's no surprise that it's getting a little sluggish. I'd continue with a gentle daily stirring until the gravity reaches about 1.045 and give it a little more nutrient. That should be enough nutrient though. Leave it alone until it reaches 1.020 or so and rack and leave it for a few months to clear.

Apparently you decided not to prepare & pitch a 1L starter... It may still be your only viable option (assuming you want to get the ABV closer to 12%).

I certainly would not use step additions of honey at this point.

summersolstice - hightest,
Thank you for your patience and feedback, I truly appreciate it. I knew I was stepping out of my comfort zone on this one but I thought I had everything worked out and my schedule in place. I was wrong and its not the first or last time. The batch is still fermenting, but once again I'm reminded I'm not in charge, I'm just the manager.

Normally I'm a carrier of "stress and frustration", but obviously not immune to it. In the grand scheme it's all going the right way, just not as well and fast as I thought it would.
I will do the second pitching from a starter if I get a stalled fermentation which is still possible, this weekend will be the critical point, it's only been 2.5 weeks but at times I feel like I failed my yeast to provide them the perfect environment to do thier thing.

Hightest, I actually blame it all on you, I have read through your sticky FAQ, and of course I assumed I knew it all after that!

Someday my perceived reality may actually be reality, but not with this batch. But there is always the next one.
The one big limitation is time to measure, adjust, test.
Hopefully this thread will provide some assurance to others, I know I am learning from this.

Once again, Thanks.

Just a follow up to finish up this thread.
The SG has dropped to 1.010 and fermentation has notably slowed so I finally got to rack it to a carboy for finishing and clearing. In all it took four weeks which considering the OG was 1.123 is pretty good but I will do better next time.
Thanks again for the encouragement and calming advice.
Now just a couple more years to go.

...is this where I get in line???

homebrewer_99 said:

...is this where I get in line???

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Hey, book your flight out here. I'm slowly building up a new stash of brews. I just can't drink them as fast as I want to brew them, but I hate bottling. Life is full of conflicts.

Just another follow up on this thread.
I was able to scrounge 9 large wine bottles, a few beer bottles and some plastic PET bottles to put this into.
The PET bottles are a test to see how well they will work for long term ageing of a Mead. And the small beer bottles are for the occasional taste test.
The final gravity is sitting right at 1.008, so it is not very dry, and has a strong Kiawi/mesquite flavour. Even though it looked crystal clear from secondary to the keg for bulk ageing there was still a large amount of heavy black sediment at the bottom of the keg.
I am currently sipping a pint sample, and wow. Even with the Kiawi taste it is really good. Hopefully in a year or two it will mellow out to fantastic.
Once again thanks to hightest and summersolstice for setting me on the right track.

just read this thread, sounds great!

Where in Kauai you live?

Kauai_Kahuna said:

Hey, book your flight out here. I'm slowly building up a new stash of brews. I just can't drink them as fast as I want to brew them, but I hate bottling. Life is full of conflicts.

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If I told my wife you were in HI we'd be on a plane already...

We were in Oahu (again) and the Big Island just last year...:rockin:

homebrewer_99 said:

If I told my wife you were in HI we'd be on a plane already...

We were in Oahu (again) and the Big Island just last year...:rockin:

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screw flying, my Aunt and Uncle live on Kauai, and my G-mom lives on the big island in Waimeia... i'll just ask them to grab me a bottle

Berserker_Brew said:

screw flying, my Aunt and Uncle live on Kauai, and my G-mom lives on the big island in Waimeia... i'll just ask them to grab me a bottle

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Is that you Barack???

leave it alone and go surf at PAKALA or HANALEI BAY! if there is no surf, hike the Napali coast and forget about the meade for a few weeks.

I live on Oahu now, no good jobs on Kauai, heck right now there does not seem to be any jobs on Kauai.
Been a busy day with rackings, bottling, and now making up a cider, 5 gallons of Motts, 2 lbs light brown sugar, and two cans of frozen concentrate. Never made this before so it should be fun.

Kauai_Kahuna said:

I live on Oahu now, no good jobs on Kauai, heck right now there does not seem to be any jobs on Kauai.
Been a busy day with rackings, bottling, and now making up a cider, 5 gallons of Motts, 2 lbs light brown sugar, and two cans of frozen concentrate. Never made this before so it should be fun.

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Sounds good. Saving the concentrate for backsweetening? They works great! :rockin:

My finishing one is crash cooling and will back sweeten with one can of concentrate, basic, kind of light ABV for kegging and on tap.
The one I just made was two cans of lemon juice concentrate in the initial primary, I'm thinking maybe add two cans of apple concentrate after fermentation slows. (Maybe in the next two days after I taste it, and maybe another can or two of lemon concentrate). I want the lemon flavor to be present but support and not over power the apple.
Come on, no one talks about Pakala's surf, don't want too many people showing up there. Also once you get that red dirt on you it's never coming off. I'm a west side boy, red dirt is mixed into my blood and lungs.

the red dirt is the best part. it is what keeps people away, i would think. it is alos hard to find if no one has told you. i found it by pure luck. the red dirt is from the cane fields, right?

The entire west side is red dirt, its just the volcanic rocks broken down in a desert / swap environment.
There is a small retailer that actually sells "Red dirt" T shirts etc. I understand it only takes 1 cup of red dirt to dye hundreds of T-shirts.
And all that time I was trying to take the stains out, go figure.

Red dirt in Hawaii; I never knew. Sounds like this Alabama boy would feel at home. We have "Alabama Dirt Shirts" here too. Ever notice how baseball fields all have red dirt infields, no matter what color the native soil is in the area?

OK, could not help myself, I had to give this a taste around its one year birthday. Of course I was have to try something twice just to make sure...

20091103 Tasted one small bottle at a PACMAN fight with friends, still a little hot and a kick. Imagine a bud drinker tasting a 100+ ABU great IIPA. They like it but they have that kick to their face look.

20091121 Tasted another small bottle, still a little hot, but good. First glass still has a kick, let it breath a little and it is starting to blend very nicely. I think this will become a very nice mead.

Well, I had another small bottle today, and I have to say it is loosing some of the heat, but I don't think I'll be busting out the larger bottles for another 6 months to a year.

After attempting to forget about these bottles I finally opened a small bottle today and got inspired to update this thread.
On 2011-03-27 I gave a bottle to someone I worked with who brewed, his comments was. - Very nice, complex and very pleasant.
Today, I have to say a nice complex flavor and taste. But with some heavy sediment from the kiawie honey. All the heat/rocket juice is gone,
So, even stressing the yeast and freaking out the brewer, I think it is safe to say time heals all "*$%&^&^#" mistakes.
Also, if using really heavy and dark honeys, use in small volumes or be ready to wait four years or more.
Thanks to hightest, SS, and everyone here for making me a better brewer.