Sanctuary Gose

Lactobacillus adds a milk/cheese flavor that Acid malts or any other acid will not give you. It is a different flavor profile. Sorry should of just said that in the beginning.

also forgot to mention a very important fact! When dealing with lactobacillus it is very sensitive to ibu's people argue on either keeping it under 25 or 10 ibu's for better results. I've gotten best results with under 10 myself. Hops fight p.h levels and sourness in beer because hops are naturally sanitized and doesn't affect the wort. But can fight off bacteria and make it hard for lactobacillus to grow and thrive.

I don't agree that lactobacillus adds milky or cheesy flavors, those are off-flavors (iso-valeric acid, most likely). You may have an association between tartness and certain dairy products that links them in your head, but if you get any cheesy flavors at all something didn't go right. It mostly comes about from improper sour mashing, and is one of the big reasons there's a whole backlash against sour mashing in general. There's a glut of homebrewers and even commercial brewers making fast sours that taste like parmesan/spoiled milk/vomit/diapers. I still really like the method because it can be done well, but I've definitely tasted (and dumped) my fair share of iso-valeric and butyric 'sours'.

A good sour mashed beer should have a clean, non-dairy tartness. It can help to use brettanomyces to try to reduce small amounts of those compounds below taste/smell threshold, but it's not a panacea. I usually use ECY Dirty Dozen as my yeast blend because I like the small amount of funk it adds, and it's super acid tolerant, and as a bonus it is capable of converting some of those nasty compounds into less-offensive things. I've used S05 in the past too (nicely acid tolerant), works just fine.

This is a good blog post that gets into a lot of detail, part 2 for the off-flavors - http://sourbeerblog.com/fast-souring-lactobacillus/ . It actually talks about using the bacteria vs acid, and I agree that there's some flavor difference, maybe a bit of broad mustiness that can linger if you don't boil the wort after souring, but I definitely don't agree that there's an 'artificial' taste. Plus, I associate that bit of funkiness with berliner weisse and not gose. I'd personally only go all out trying to preserve that type of flavor if I were doing a no-boil berliner soured in primary, otherwise IMO it's going to dissipate or be overwhelmed by other flavors.

klowneyy said:

Lactobacillus adds a milk/cheese flavor

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come again? Not the sour beers / berliners I've made.

passedpawn said:

come again? Not the sour beers / berliners I've made.

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I believe it's lacto brevis but could be very mistaken need to do a refresher on different lacto bacteria. that gives the milk/dairy taste to the beers I am talking about their are several different kinds of lacto strains lacto brevis is just one of a wide Ray of lacto bacterias. Just like brettanomcyes trois and brettanomcyes brux and different strains of the same yeast and give much different different taste.


omega yeast labs OYL-605 special blend gives off pineapple notes. It really depends on what lactobacillus bacteria you are using.

klowneyy said:

I believe it's lacto brevis but could be very mistaken need to do a refresher on different lacto bacteria. that gives the milk/dairy taste to the beers I am talking about their are several different kinds of lacto strains lacto brevis is just one of a wide Ray of lacto bacterias. Just like brettanomcyes trois and brettanomcyes brux and different strains of the same yeast and give much different different taste.

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Again, disagree. Flavor-wise, I've never really heard much discussion on different lacto strains. It's always about homo- vs hetero-, souring speed, pH that can be reached, and temperature ranges.

klowneyy said:

Lactobacillus adds a milk/cheese flavor that Acid malts or any other acid will not give you. It is a different flavor profile. Sorry should of just said that in the beginning.

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Lactobacillus does not add a milk/cheese flavor in my experience. And I don't believe I've ever heard anyone else describe Lacto that way, and its not a descriptor used in any BJCP style descriptions for lacto beers, unless I'm overlooking it.

Pappers_ said:

Lactobacillus does not add a milk/cheese flavor in my experience. And I don't believe I've ever heard anyone else describe Lacto that way, and its not a descriptor used in any BJCP style descriptions for lacto beers, unless I'm overlooking it.

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I've had them they are fantastic on a homebrew level and mass production level. One of my favorites is from epic ales in Seattle that makes a miso tart that I've tried rebrewing and came out with a still pretty good beer. It starts off tasting like miso soup and a slight cheese after taste by the end of the bottle all I am getting is a funky blue cheese taste this is the only huge production one I can think of right now and unfortunately they closed down on 9/11 of this month. But they are simply amazing!

If people want to test this out simply buy omega yeast labs OYL-605 and use it and will get a nice pineapple note. From the cultures they use

klowneyy said:

I've had them they are fantastic on a homebrew level and mass production level. One of my favorites is from epic ales in Seattle that makes a miso tart that I've tried rebrewing and came out with a still pretty good beer. It starts off tasting like miso soup and a slight cheese after taste by the end of the bottle all I am getting is a funky blue cheese taste this is the only huge production one I can think of right now and unfortunately they closed down on 9/11 of this month. But they are simply amazing!

If people want to test this out simply buy omega yeast labs OYL-605 and use it and will get a nice pineapple note. From the cultures they use

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I'm starting to suspect you have penicillium roqueforti infections I make cheese, including blue cheese. That stuff gets airborne really easily. It's the same blue mold you get on bread in your cabinet, so it's everywhere. It's very active at low pH (my blue cheese is quite acidic). I have no idea what its tolerance to alcohol is, and it certainly requires O2 to grow, so I'm sorta kidding... or am I

I'll consider that but I'm rather sure its not since we have people test daily for any yeast,bacteria that we dont want in our brew house. I only get them in my desired beers that I'm looking for those flavors.

Just wondering, is there a specific reason you had T-58 for the yeast in this recipe? The description notes a peppery flavour profile. Not sure if that would be something I am looking for.

Does anyone have any experience with WYEAST German Ale - 1007 in this beer?

Thanks for the recipe, been looking for something like this.

Wargoul said:

Just wondering, is there a specific reason you had T-58 for the yeast in this recipe? The description notes a peppery flavour profile. Not sure if that would be something I am looking for.

Does anyone have any experience with WYEAST German Ale - 1007 in this beer?

Thanks for the recipe, been looking for something like this.

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Good question, it's for the spicy notes. It doesn't go too crazy in this beer, never seen it kick out banana for instance... probably because the gravity is pretty low. I think of it as a good belgian pale/wheat yeast that sucks at floccing, and a little of that character works well here.

German ale yeast is perfect, I haven't done it but it's probably the most style-appropriate yeast. The past few times I've used a clean cali strain, good results.

bovineblitz said:

Good question, it's for the spicy notes. It doesn't go too crazy in this beer, never seen it kick out banana for instance... probably because the gravity is pretty low. I think of it as a good belgian pale/wheat yeast that sucks at floccing, and a little of that character works well here.

German ale yeast is perfect, I haven't done it but it's probably the most style-appropriate yeast. The past few times I've used a clean cali strain, good results.

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Thanks for the reply. I'll try this out with the Wyeast 1007 and report back when it's all done.

Brewed this yesterday following the original recipe. My efficiency is 75% so OG came in at 1.051. Debating adding some lemon or lime zest after primary fermentation. Bubbling strong 11 hours after pitching at 67deg. Brewing for a beer and wine festival in late February, anxious to see how it turns out.

Just bottled mine. I added the zest of 2 lemons, soaked in vodka for 3 days to primary about a week ago. I was debating adding raspberries but they are out of season and super expensive right now. Maybe in the summer for a good lawnmower beer. FG was 1.016 and came out to about 4.5% ABV. Slightly tart and a little salty. Bottled to 2.8 vols and added 2.5mL of Lactic Acid. Festival is 20 days away, hopefully it will go over well.

BNolt17 said:

Just bottled mine. I added the zest of 2 lemons, soaked in vodka for 3 days to primary about a week ago. I was debating adding raspberries but they are out of season and super expensive right now. Maybe in the summer for a good lawnmower beer. FG was 1.016 and came out to about 4.5% ABV. Slightly tart and a little salty. Bottled to 2.8 vols and added 2.5mL of Lactic Acid. Festival is 20 days away, hopefully it will go over well.

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Sounds good, I be the lemon is gonna be great. If berliner is the 'lemonade of beer', gose is the gatorade!

Did anyone tried a similar grain bill but using aroma hops to add more complex flavour?
or anyone tried to do a sour Pale Ale but using acid malt and a bit of lactic acid at bottling instead of sourmash technique?
thanks for your input.
PLanning to brew this beer or something along this way; may changed few spices, add star anise, lemongrass or something else
thanks for your input

I'm trying out this recipe for the maiden voyage of my new grain father. So far the pre-boil gravity is 1.05, so it looks like it has a pretty good efficiency. Will check back to let you know how it all works out.